May 23 2006
Stop Fooling Around And Make Progress
Two short items on the illegal immigration issue. We need to take concerted action now. Yes my friends on the right, that means compromise. My only challenge to you is to see if you can deal with the compromises graciously and without deroguatory comments about the President and those of us who differ with you.
So what we want to happen is this:
The Senate, with Bush’s support, is working toward a more comprehensive bill that would include routes for some of the nation’s 12 million illegal immigrants to work toward citizenship.
Senate leaders predict final passage by week’s end.
What we don’t need is pointless grandstanding and wasted delays:
Speaker J. Dennis Hastert’s insistence that major legislation reach the House floor only if it appears to be backed by a “majority of the majority” could throw a high hurdle in front of efforts to reach a House-Senate compromise on immigration later this year, lawmakers said. Hastert (R-Ill.) has invoked the policy in blocking bills that appeared likely to win approval from more than half of the House’s 435 members but less than half of its 231 Republicans.
Earth to Haster, we are a representative democracy. If Bush has the votes just get out of the way and let the will of the people decide. If we are for up and down votes on judicial nominees in the Senate, you can bet your Speakership we are for up and down votes in the House. We also don’t need this:
The proposal by Rep. Mike Pence (R-Ind.), provided to TIME ahead of an unveiling speech at the Heritage Foundation, is arguably less compassionate than the version being debated in the Senate and supported in principle by President George W. Bush. But it looks to be more palatable to House Republicans, many of whom have opposed creating a guest worker program before new border crackdowns have been given a chance to work.
Pence, a rising star in the House, is suggesting a temporary worker program based on a data base run by private industry. And unlike the leading plan in the Senate and the blueprint sketched by Bush, his “Border Integrity and Immigration Reform Act†would require all applicants to leave the country first.
First off, what is the point in making people leave outside spiteful vindication? And why are we giving private industry another database on the personal lives of people? Pence – get over it. You are not going to get your way and there are many more of us who want a solution instead of more wasted arguing. We have heard the choices and rejected those trying to make working for a living a crime. Move on.
The problem Hastert faces is that if he goes against the majority of the Republican Caucas, they could choose a new Speaker.
I have emailed my senators as well as Frist about this item, as well as the Jefferson item. I swear that the Senate seems to go out of its way to ensure a change of power in Nov!
If Republicans are not careful they will be the ones called obstructionist. What is the point of the Pence bill? How will you make them all leave and what will that entail? How many years?
For a bunch of people who say they want immigration reform and a wall and more border security the House Republicans sure as hell do not seem to have a problem jeopardizing everything for sheer spite.
I am from Indiana and Pence is a strange guy. Very different from Lugar or Bayh.
We must have border security first. The vast majority of the American people want to secure the borders. Period. Anything more will prove to be absolutely disastrous for America and her values.
Let’s first make sure we have border security, stop the flow of illegals into this country and then talk about “compromise.” Once that is done then we can debate the guest worker program or a path to legalization for those who are already here illegally.
If we try to pass “comprehensive immigration reform,” we will be making a huge, and I mean huge mistake.
And besides, what in the hell are our senators thinking?
They act as if We the People don’t exist and that their base is the illegal aliens. That goes for both parties. However, you would expect that from the party of “death.”[Democrats]
If you didn’t know better you would think the Senators on Capital Hills true constituencies were a bunch of illegal immigrants.
This issue is so fundamentally crucial to the survival of America. That is why I want border security first and then after that we can talk about “amnesty.”
P.S. No I am not a xenophobe, or a racist, so please, if that was to be your response to what I have written, don’t bother. I’ve heard it all.
Coffee,
Look, we need to put all of it in place now. None of these measure will be completed when Bush leaves office. There is no need to wait until 2008 to deal with the immigrants here now. We are not going to do this one step at a time. All at once or none of it works.
And we need to put ALL of the measures in place now, why? Explain why it is important to make provisions for giving amnesty to nearly 12 million people right now? Explain how it is that in 2001 we had between 3 and 4 million illegals in the country and now after 5 years of Bush we have between 10-12 million illegals. What role did President Bush’s offhand remarks about amnesty in 2001 have in encouraging such a wholesale criminal spree into our country.
And did you know that when he made that statement he was also open to not only welcoming Mexicans but all violators of our immigration laws. Guess who was in the country at that time violating our laws who might have been pardoned by El Presidenta? Why none other than Atta. Wow just think he could have been legal.
No instead of any bill lets have no bills…because any bill that a President who has stood around and allowed an invasion of nearly 8 million people does not deserve to be listened to on immigration.
We CAN solve this illegal immigration process very easily, but Bush does not want to. The House Republicans want to solve this issue by enforcement. This “comprehensive reform” approach mumbo-jumbo is code for amnesty and liberalizing immigration laws to create millions of new Democrat voters and benefactors of government programs.
The ovewhelming majority of American CITIZENS want the border secured and stronger internal enforcement. There is no fence and no enforcement. This issue can be solved very easily without amnesty, guest worker programs or social security for illegals utilizing false documents.
First, Build a real fence and barrier along the entire 2000 mile border with remote surveillance and monitoring. This will reduce the inflow dramatically by decreasing their ability to enter.
Second, Increase the number of Border Patrol officers and support pesonnel for internal enforcement as well as along the new border fence. Combined with a real fence, this will also slow the flow of illegals dramatically.
Third, End the policy of “Catch & Release” by detaining the illegals in new detention centers until they can be processed and sent back. Instead of releasing them to wander around the country, hold on to them until they can be returned. If they return again, then they go to prison and are fined, then deported, if they re-enter again, then enforce longer prison terms and larger fines. Decrease the motivation to enter illegally.
Fourth, Enforce the laws already in effect with actual employer sanctions and penalites imposed upon violaters. Real enforcement will impact the illegal aliens ability to work and the emplyers ability to hire.
Fifth, Enforce a nationwide re-verification of residency status for all employees through internet and telephone call centers which cross reference with INS, IRS and Social Security records. With the imposition of real sanctions and punishment for violators, the majority of employers will follow the law and the illegals will not be able to work. Without work, the majority will return back home.
A new border fence and actual enforcement. That’s it. Very simple.
It took a long time to get where we are today, and it will not be solved overnight. It will take time, but it has to happen.
Riceball,
It will be dealt with easily, with a guest worker program, with a secure border and with a comprehensive plan that doesn’t treat people who are raising a family and working hard as any more of a criminal than someone who drives recklessly on the roads with an undocumented car.
Let me see which is worse? A reckless driver with an undocumented car or an illegal immigrant with an undocumented job???
Gee, can you guess were I and the majority of people in this country stand? Now let’s see how well those who do not get their way on the right deal with compromise. Let’s see an example of losing with honor and respect.
Pierre, we can do all at the same time – period. And that is what will pass – period. Nothing more to add.
hehe…
Pierre, we can do all at the same time – period. And that is what will pass – period. Nothing more to add.
Wow well that explains it all. No wonder people on a certain side of the illegal immigration argument are so angry they don’t have an argument and know it.
Sowell always a voice of reason notes the same thing.
The immigration bill before Congress has some of the most serious consequences for the future of this country. Yet it is not being discussed seriously by most politicians or most of the media. Instead, it is being discussed in a series of glib talking points that insult our intelligence.
Some of the most momentous consequences — a major increase in the number of immigrants admitted legally — are not even being discussed at all by those who wrote the Senate bill, though Senator Jeff Sessions has uncovered those provisions in the bill and brought them out into the light of day.
Further down in the same article
Another insult to our intelligence is that amnesty is not amnesty if you call it something else. The fact that illegals will have to fulfill certain requirements to become American citizens is supposed to mean that this is not amnesty.
But let’s do what the spinmeisters hope we will never do — stop and think. Amnesty is overlooking (“forgetting,” as in amnesia) the violation of the law committed by those who have crossed our borders illegally.
What I have noted all through the Blogsphere is that those who are for the Presidents plan…or more accurately those who believe we must accept whatever the President says always seem to go straight to insults, flying right by any debate of the issues.
Why?
You are deluding youreslf if you think that granting amnesty and social security benefits to millions of illegal aliens are supported by the majority. On the contrary, the overwhelming majority of Americans want the border secured and the immigration laws strictly enforced. This Senate bill is a travesty and an insult to the American people, as well as every single naturalized citizen who waited their turn and played by the rules.
Are we a nation of laws or not? What other laws should not be obeyed? If the immigration laws are useless, what about the tax laws? product safety laws? environmental regulations? traffic laws? Oh, never mind about those laws.
These trespassers have entered the country without the legal authority under the immigration laws passed by Congress, and are working under false pretenses by lying to their employers.
What about the millions of visa and immigration applicants from around the world who have applied for legal entry and are patiently waiting for their lawful entry into the country? Oh, never mind. They’re just suckers for obeying the law, they should just sneak in.
What about the use of forged documents and identity theft with fake IDs, and phony social security numbers? Oh never mind about those laws, they are so inconvenient to the illegals.
What about the underground economy of illegal workers paid in cash? No state or federal taxes collected, no social security or medicare taxes paid, no unemployment or disability costs for the employer? Oh, never mid about those laws either.
What about all of the public school classrooms which are over-crowded with illegal alien children who only speak spanish? Oh, never mind, your American citizen child should be treated the same and taught to the lowest level.
What about the closing of dozens of public hospitals and the pending insolvency of hundreds more public hospitals because of the financial burden of treating illegal aliens at taxpayer expense. Oh, never mind, the aliens want a better life.
How many Mohammed Attas, Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Jihadis and like minded terrorists are going to be given permanent legal status and citizenship by paying a $2000 fine and some taxes? Oh, never mind.
Oh, never mind about the diminishing quality of our lives and the impact illegal immigration has upon our lives. The taxpayers, voters and citizens are irrelevant when compared to providing a better life for the rest of the world at our expense.
Illegal immigrants lower the wages for American workers, take low skill jobs away from unskilled American workers, burden our healthcare system, overwhelm the public schools and are a net drain on our economy.
The majority of voters in the county will not accept the President’s and Senate’s give-away of our sovereignty, American way of life, or our children’s future. Make no mistake, if this ridiculous Senate bill becomes law then the country is over within a generation.
You know the harldiners are going to destroy the whole thing. They will be so damn busy trying to push everyone around, trying to cram their personal view of the way things should be done down everyone else’s throat that nothing, including border security, will get passed. They think they are the whole country and they are not.
And blaming Bush for this is just stupid, as if all the years before he came along when no one did anything do not matter and now it is just his burden and his alone. As if just wanting it to be done makes it so with the wave of a magic wand.
The Democrats will filibuster an enforcement only bill, it will never make it through the Senate anyway. I know that the whole democracy thing is a nuisance, but what the hell until and unless Pat Buchanan become Emporer that is the reality.
And why not do both? Appropriate the money for the wall first. It will take years to get all this going, why the childish and selfish refusal to have immigration reform when we obviously need it? Why the our way or the highway, the refusal to act like adults and compromise?
Did any of the hardliners ever even listen to Bush’s speech? He asked or a wall, he asked for more enforcement of the laws, he asked for more people on the border, he asked for more cooperation between agencies, he asked for a guest worker program that allows a relatively small number of people to come in and work. Most Americans support all these things. Most Americans do not just want an enforcement bill. They want the border to be secured for sure, but that is not all they want. And if a bunch of fanatics destroy the deal because they refuse to face reality the American people will not be happy with Republicans who were responsible for killing a border security bill for spite.
Atta came into the country legally long before Bush ever came into office.
In fact none of the men who flew those planes into the WTC were border crossers from Mexico. As far as that is concerned the millineum bombers were stopped at the Canadian border. The men who attacked the WTC back in 1993 flew in on passenger jets. They did not sneak in from Mexico.
About a third or half the people who are illegally came in legally, so just building a wall will not stop them. Immigration reform and better enforcement will help more than a wall for a lot of these people. But the idea that if you just concentrate on one thing and ignore the rest, that somehow it will work out is like the boy with his finger in the dyke. We need to deal with the whole thing.
Submitted for Your Approval…
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“compromise”. That is what they are calling this bill, a compromise.
The Senate Judiciary Committee has reported that Senate Bill 2611 will absolve the illegal law breakers from 31 violations of the law.
There is a little clause called “Employer Protections” that will allow the employers of illegals to get a “get out of jail free” card. In other words, no penalties for hiring illegals.
Illegals will be required to pay back taxes, but for only three out of five years. Try that yourself. Refuse to pay your taxes for two years out of five and see what happens.
Illegals, who have worked in this country using a stolen Social Security card will be eligible for benefits in five years at a reduced rate and fully vested in ten years. There is no requirement for them to be a natualized citizen to collect benefits or even a requirement that they live in the United States. The check will be sent to what ever country they live in. Same with SSDI and dependant benefits.
You try that: steal someone’s SS number, work under it, get caught and watch yourself wind up in court, at best, jail at worst. A number of crimes will be absolved there: identity theft, falsifying a federal document (the tax form you fill out when employed), working under false documents. The list goes on but even though that would find an American citizen arrested and prosecuted for those crimes for illegals there will be another “get out of jail free” card issued.
This is the “compromise” bill and there are those like Terrye who call me a “hardliner” because I think it is flat out wrong. It thumbs it’s nose at the very rule of law that every American and legal immigrant is expected to live by. It allows those who enter our country illegally to get by with it without penalty. Not even a slap on the hand.
Oh, yes, you will say that they have to pay back taxes and $2,000.00 to be a citizen. If they are not willing obey our laws and come here in legal fashion, do you really think they are going to obey our laws after amnesty? And why are all of you so conceited to think that their ultimate goal is not to earn enough money to return to their country of origin and live well but to become American citizens. I can tell you, that is not the main goal of most of the Mexicans that come to our nation illegally. They do not want to become citizens because like us, they love their mother country.
But we must rush to a “compromise”. Never mind that once we legalize 12 million people, allowing them to then bring their families to the United States, there will be a rush for the gate to enter the United States that will look like the Oklahoma territory so that they can be included in the “amnesty”. Call it what you want, when you forgive millions of people from breaking the law, it is amnesty from those criminal acts.
No, AJ, no all at once or nothing at all. Quite the contrary; without border security all other points are moot. They mean nothing. Secure the borders from further illegal immigration. Then decide what to do with the millions who are here.
This argument in the Senate is a clear cut case of the Senate of the United States being totally out of touch with the will of the American people. It is a clear cut case of granting to those who have broken our laws not equal treatment under the law, but special treatment. It is saying that American citizens are expected to uphold the law, but illegals are not.
If that is the compromise that you advocate, then this “hardliner” says NO.
It is required that in order to drive you must have a driver’s license with your picture on it.
The Senate in now voting on an amendment that would require the same thing in order to vote.
Watch the party line vote: Republicans agree with the amendment, Democrats do not. So who is pandering to the “today we march, tomorrow we vote” crowd?
What is a guest? It is someone who visits you and then, after a certain lengh of time, leaves.
How can you call the S.2611 a “guest” worker program when it clearly allows for the “guest” to remain?
I realize that 600 pages is a lot to wade through, but perhaps before you endorse this bill, you should read it.
Eye on the Watcher’s Council…
As you may know the members of the Watcher’s Council each nominate one of his or her own posts and one non-Council post for consideration by the whole Council. The complete list of this week’s Council nominations is here. Here’s wha…
Four points in our report call for special attention.
FIRST, we need improved border management. The Commission calls for a strategy of prevention of illegal entry and facilitation of legal ones in the national interest……..It is far better to deter illegal immigration than to paly the cat and mouse game that results from apprehensions followed by return followed by re-entry……Our goal should be zero apprehensions-not because aliens get past the Border Patrol but because they are prevented entry in the first place.
Our second set of recommendations would reduce the magnet that jobs currently present for illegal immigration…..The Commission believes that we need to enhance our enforcement of both employer sanctions and labor standards.
Third, the Commission urges greater consistency in our immigration and benefits policies. We believe that illegal aliens should be eligible for no public benefits other than those of an emergency nature, in the public hearlth and safety interest and constitutionally protected. …..
We do not want the U.S. taxpayer to bear a burden when there is a sponsor in this country who has pledged to provide support for an immigrant. The affidavits of support signed by sponsors should be legally binding, and the provisions for deportation of those who do become a public charge-for reasons known prior to entry- should be strengthened.
March 29, 1995.
Barbara Jordan (D-TX) hardliner
“We believe legal immigration is in the national interest, but see illegal immigration as a threat both to our long tradition of immigration and to ourcommitment to the rule of law”.
March 29, 1995
Barbara Jordan (D-TX) hardliner