May 28 2006
Tha Anchoress Plot – Democracy
I really enjoy the reading The Anchoress because she says things in such a way as that light bulbs start popping on with every sentence. Some people just have a frim grip on the world at large. We all spend our lives tearing down our initial impressions (usually from childhood) in order to learn the true complexity and beauty of this world. It is not easy to do. And being reminded how little we know is very humbling.
But then there are those who have some sort of Gestalt vision. They see things with very little clutter. The Anchoress has that gift and she has exposed the illegal immigration issue for what it is:
What I heard was a disappointing, strange, paranoia-feeding rant on how the “moderate Republicans and Democrats in the Senate†have a deliberate plan afoot to “enlarge the number of victims and people who will need welfare services†so as to “enlarge government…†It’s all a plot and a conspiracy, you see … No, no. It’s a plot! It’s a conspiracy, meant to bring down America and put the conservatives in their place! To create a permanent underclass! To enlarge government, create more victims and raise our taxes.
She is right, it is a plot. Everything in a democracy is a plot. It is a plot by a majority of the people to do something. And in every instance there is a minority who may or may not feel strongly the other way. If some Republicans see ‘a plot’ then they truky have gone DU on us. Because what they are saying is democracy is chosing to do something we don’t like. Oh well, that’s what happens in democrcacies, especially when a group goes so far afield from the mainstream they become the minority.
BTW Anchoress, I too have had to turn off the talk radio. I cannot stand the Carville-Begala brand of discourse polluting the conservative movement, but it has. Back to Rock N Roll.
Listening to Sensenbrunner, I fear that the conservatives are going to force all of us into the worst possible resolution possible – that of doing nothing at all. And the ones who force this are going to pretend that this is a “victory”!!!
Doing nothing at all mean no fence, no added enforcement, no getting control of the problem, no addressing the issue of the millions already here – no nothing at all. Next Congressional session will undoubtedly see a Congress with more democrats (although personally I doubt they will gain control) which will mean that passage of a more restrictive bill only gets increasingly unlikely, and given all the nastiness that this attempt to deal with the problem raised it seems likely that Congress won’t even attempt to address it again for 5 or 6 years, by which time we will have 20 million illegals to deal with rather than the 11 million today.
Oh, that’s gonna be some legislative “victory”, alright.
hehe…Gee whats next AJ do you cover your ears and sing a song whose words are “I am not listening, I cannot hear you”?
What is truly remarkable is the insistence of those on your side of the debate on immigration on calling anyone who is against the Presidents position “nuts, DU, childish, spiteful, hysterical” and a whole host of other names. All the while staying away from actual debate of the issues.
Anchoress and yourself are working merely to defend a President who is driven to lie by his desire to give amnesty to between 10-20 million illegals. The damage this is doing to the war on terror should concern you but your desire to defend Bush blinds you to it.
If President Bush wants to give amnesty to those folks then say it straight up, don’t couch it in diversionary terms trying to fool everyone. His credibility doesn’t need the sort of hits he is taking on this issue. Ed Meese calls them like he see’s them and he shot down the fantasy that what President Bush wants is not amnesty. It is amnesty and its a lie to state otherwise.
According to polls [both Gallup and RNC] the radical right wingers are a minority, even in the Republican party. I do not listen to talk radio and there are several blogs I don’t go to anymore. Most Republicans want to see comprehensive immigration reform. These loud mouth ranters on talk radio etc. are about as indicative of the Republican party as Cindy Sheehan is of the average American Democrat. And like the left fringe wrecked the Democrats, they are busy on the other side of the aisle trying to wreck the Republicans. The Anchoress is right, these people are paranoid.
I want to continue voting Republican and I find so many of the people doing the ranting to be so offensive and bizarre that I am afraid if I listen to them..they will turn me into a Democrat, or at least make it impossible for me to vote for the Republicans. Maybe that is what they want.
I think the most disturbing nature of their acting out is the out of control quality of the rhetoric and the ultimate uselessness of their behavior. It is as if they are bad children who just go from one fit to another. Always crying and whining and making demands and yet never accomplishing anything. They could care less about the war on Terror, they lost interest and the Muslim does not seem to inspire enough hatred for them now and so they are constantly seeking the new enemy, the new threat, the new people who we must hate, defeat, destroy or we are doooomed. They are wearing me out.
First there was Miers and the really vicious tone of that debate and then there was the whole Dubai debacle which had to be one of the most assanine displays of public stupidity I have ever seen. I mean come on, it helped the Democrats a lot more than it did anything else. And now there is the ridiculous behavior of the right on immigration. Bloggers talking about impeachment and telling the president he can go eff himself because he supports guest workers. Well hell, he supported guest workers when these same people supported him in the last election..he did not change, they did. They lost their freaking minds and if they keep it up they will have nothing to show for it but no fence, a fractured party, and the complete disgust of the 70% of the American people. I for one am sick and tired of these people calling themselves the base, the base my ass, they are fruitcakes.
For instance, they are doing their best to destroy immigration reform or increased border enforcement before it even has a chance to get off the ground. To them that is winning. How the vast majority of the American people feel about the issue is completely immaterial to them.
A friend of mine, who is a life long Republican wondered if some of the bloggers were actually left leaning plants put in place to create havoc. That is how out of touch he feels with many of the people who keep telling the rest of us that they represent the base. He does not recognize them. In fact he told me the other day that if Reagan were around he would tell the lot of them to shut the hell up. I doubt that, but Reagan would never behave the way these people…not in a million years. If he could hear some of the callers my guess is it would shame him.
BTW, 70% of the American people do not consider allowing a path to citizenship to be amnesty. Only 21% wants to see all illegals expelled.
These figures are from Gallup and RNC.
Pierre,
I hae heard what you folks think and have dismissed it as unfortunate and unworkable. Since the ‘eviction’ faction is not changing their positions and has simply been distlled down to insults, obviously I see no reason to listen anymore. It’s a done deal in most minds, and most people disagree.
Dismal is not the same as ignoring. I have nothing to cover my ears over. Welcome to democracy. The minority side of democracy.
Al,
On this immigration issue, you and the Anchoress, are just wrong. Yes, some of the rhetoric is excessive and some of the arguments are tin foil hat material. However, the basic complaints from the Right are absolutely sound. We do have a border problem and we do have a country full of illegals that continue illegal activities. It is beyond question that both of these facts have very negative implications for near and long term continuation of American democracy as we know it.
In regard to solutions, both the President’s proposal and the abysmal Senate bill fail because they do not fix the problems, nor deal justly and fairly with current US citizens and immigrants that are working within the law.
The test for any new legislation should be fairly simple. The changes provided should not in any way ‘excuse’ past illegalities. The changes absolutely must not ‘reward’ past illegal behavior (by neither aliens nor employers). Now, just run the test. ‘Credit’ for SS – absolutely not! Three out of five years of taxes – hell no! Get in line for citizenship before those immigrants now playing by the rules – No, No, No!
Build a multi-layer, high tech wall. Hire three times the number of Border Patrol. Heavily prosecute and fine employers that hire illegals. Wait two years and see if this works. During interim, discuss and define a guest worker program that does not violate the rules noted above.
It is not possible here to detail all the cultural and long term assimilation problems and possible solutions. However, English only for all governmental documentation, including voting, is really only a minimal start.
NIB:
Well if he is wrong, then most Americans are. It seems to me that some people don’t really want to fix this, but if the House refuses to compromise you will not get a wall at all.
BTW I forgot to ask…why is it even a child molestor can get a second chance, but a Mexican landscaper can’t? Why is allowing someone a way to pay a debt encouraging bad behavior?
Al – Terrye,
Can’t argue facts – argue polls. Can’t get ‘your’ compromise, talk stalemate.
Try this. The last national ELECTION (forget polls) gave us a House that passed a ‘fence the border’ and ‘add some new felonies’ solution. Senate passes a ‘tinker with border’ and a ‘reward illegals’ bill.
Now, where is the common ground?
Anwer: Fix the border problem, NOW.
Perhaps more work is needed to determine whether felony or reward is the proper approach – how about after this next ELECTION come November.
— Democracy in Action —
Bring it on! We will see what the outcome is. I stand with the President becaue he represents *my* beliefs. Do you know what those are?
And there are many, many things going on around this issue, communisim taking over in Central and South America, for one. We cannot afford to have a communist nation on our border that is in collusion with an island 90 miles off our coast…and an insane dictator in Venuzuela…and state run oil kicking out Chevron and Texaco in Brazil and Columbia…
Like the baby of King Solomon, are you going to tear it in half to prove your power? You call this a success?
I am not impressed with whatever you are calling facts. We are dealing with human beings and our belief in the rule of law…NOT OUR WORSHIP OF THE LAW, just our belief that the Law was made for Man…not the other way around.
America will come down on the highest and best side of this issue…and those who have fear and/or hatred and/or emotional greed (resentment) will have been given an opportunity to look at themselves and the issue in a new way…
NIB:
Perhaps you need to realize that the same Senate which we voted in just passed the bill all these people are bitching and moaning about.
And now after making a huge issue of this the Right is threatening to kill the whole thing just because they may not be able to shove their particular bill down everyone’s throat. Which leads me to wonder if they are capable of governing as a majority party.
Speaking of the law, we have a Constitution which requires that we give everyone, even aliens, due process. That means lawyers, lots of them.
I have never as of yet heard of any of these folks who insist on turning the Class A misdemeaner of illegal entry into something akin to mass murder explain how they will accomplish what they demand the rest of us go along with.
I have no idea what the costs would be, how many detention centers it would take, how many rapists will go free because our law enforcement people are tracking down nannies or anything else. I wonder how many people they will have to shoot and if that even matters to the. No, they just make demands and act like the rest of us are supposed to kiss their behinds.
Meanwhile the Minute Men are down on the Arizona border putting up a fence or something while their champions are bragging about killing the bill to build one…unless it is exactly the right kind of bill. How stupid is that?
How many more people will be here in 10 years if we blow this off now?
Terry, I think you’ll agree that one of the most disapointing things about this debate is learning that a significant portion of the hard right is no different at all from the KozKids – the same lunatic devotion to an ideology combined with contempt for any hint of moderation or reason. Sad.
Interesting. That same thought has crossed my mind too.
hehe, and dont forget … “The Base” in Arabic is al Qaeda.