Jun 08 2006
Deport For Real Crimes
Reader JWM provided the example argument which could bring the conservative coalition back together on immigration and the law. Of course, the knee-jerk far right would need to stop emoting and be willing to compromise. I will not hold my breathe – just offer the obvious solution. JWM provided the following example of the dark side of immigration (legal or otherwise):
And pay attention to details like the mentally retarded exemption. Earlier this week in an Atlanta aprtment complex known to primarily house illegal aliens, a “Honduran†(the Atlanta Journal-Constituion would never tell you he was illegal) man known to be mentally retarded planted an ax in the face of a 9 year old, killing him. When a policeman attempted to question him, he threw a tire at him and broke his arm. He continued to attack the policeman, who finally shot and killed the man.
Well, that is actually the dark side of human nature – not immigrants. As I pointed out in my response, we Americans would be tainted by the likes of Jeffery Dahmer by her logic. But this example provides the perfect solution for the House to add something sorely missing from the Senate Bill. Deportation for real crimes. Everyone on this site who is adament about deportation sites actual crimes (or uses criminal analogies like breaking into their house where it is more like cutting across the yard) to butress their hardline.
Interestingly enough, this is where I agree. Any immigrant (legal or otherwise) who commits a serious crime should be deported and never given a second chance at working here. Deportation for a real crime, not a paperwork crime. Here is how I put it in my response to JWM:
Obviously if you read my site criminal acts (even by the mentally challenged) means immediate deportation and no second chance. It is the one thing the Senate should have put in the Bill. It is the one thing the House should put in the Bill. There are plenty of real crimes committed by immigrants that, in my mind, easily call for deportation. Lack of a green card is not one of them. Lack of a green card means the crime is working for a living without permission.
The House can fix this problem by adding this necessary package to the Senate Bill. We should deport hard criminals (felonies) who are immigrants because they have shown themselves unworthy of our largess. The anger on the right is confusing a breaking of the process with a real crime. If they could focus this on real criminals we would all be in agreement. My guess is they have decided to make a stand and tell us all to shove it. Which is too bad. Because that means another round of nothing for another ten years.
BTW, on the immigration numbers estimate, anything over 2 Million a year is too high. You have to have a job to get into the program. So the capacity of the market at the low end is the controlling factor. The truth is, a much more likely scenario from the guest worker program is a big drop in immigrants – an exodus. When faced with background checks and back taxes, many immigrants will probably adjust their plans and head back home early. Most don’t stay in the first place. Instead of risking the embarrasment of denial and lost savings they will head home. Causing a labor shortage and higher real wages. This is 100 time mores likely to happen than 10’s of millions of net new immigrants.
“BTW, on the immigration numbers estimate, anything over 2 Million a year is too high. You have to have a job to get into the program.
Why do you insist on continuing to mislead everyone. I just pointed out to you that there are many many exemptions to having a job. Do you just ignore something that is counter to your proposition
YOU DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE A JOB. There are many exemptions.
Remember you said you have to have a background check. Well in fact if they do one, and it reveals you have ALREADY COMMITTED A FELONY AND THREE MISDEMEANORS, YOU ARE STILL ELIGIBLE, Just great huh?
FE,
Y0u have to have a job. I deal with green card workers and those exemptions exist there too. You need a job and a sponsor. Do you hire international workers here in the US?
BTW FE, if you had read my posts carefully I already noted my disappointment on the criminal record issue. Please don’t misrepresent my positions or my record. Just keep to your own.
Ok, I’ll admit I cant’ remember all your positions on everything, but I am gonna lift the text directly from the Senate bill that exempts guest workers from actually having a job. I’ll be back and post it very soon. like less than 30 minutes. No, I don’t personally hire International workers.
Wait just a minute, I just realized you said
“those exemptions exist there too”
“Y0u have to have a job. I deal with green card workers and those exemptions exist there too. You need a job and a sponsor.”
and an ‘exemption’ would be? You don’t have to have a job?
Which is it? Do you HAVE to have or job or can there be an exemption?
from Dictionary.com
6 entries found for exemption.
ex·emp·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (g-zmpshn)
n.
The act or an instance of exempting.
The state of being exempt; immunity.
One that is exempted, especially an amount of income that is exempted from taxation.
This seems to imply to me that if something requires someone to have a job, but there is an exemption, then there might not really be a requirement to have a job.
Where am I going wrong here?
Exemptions come after your here and you lose your job for some reason. For example, you are hit by drunk driver and are in the hospital. You won’t lose your status right away. There are probably exemptions to go to school to extend your education. If you had thought about for a second it would have come to you immediately. You cannot get a green card on an exemption. You have to have a job lined up and a US company signing up to say they will hire you for at least a year (for white collar jobs).
and the exemption for someone under 16 would be in this category?
So you lose your job and the exemption means you don’t have to find another one. So all the people that come here, actually might not have to have a job. What about the ones that are already here, do they have to have a job to stay, or can there be an exemption, meaning they DON’T have to have a job.
FE,
Stop fantasizing and do some homework, will ya? Of course it doesn’t mean you don’t ever have to find a job. Green cards have durations on them. All they do is allow for people to deal with unexpected problems and a reasonably timely manner. Nothing more.
This is why your arguments carry no damn weight. You are simply making it up on the fly and pretending it is real.
And you think I insult people? Look, you said that ALL these people have to have a job so there couldn’t be X million people here because there weren’t that many jobs and I said, They don’t Have to have a job, there were exemptions, then you said, no they have to have a job, but there are exemptions. So now you’re saying , well, they originally had to have a job but if they lost it, they don’t have to have a job. They have to have time to deal with unexpected problems ,, like , like uh being over 65 or maybe being under 16 or uh maybe being a spouse. Of course these are good examples of the typically unexpected things that allow many millions more people to be here than just the ones that HAVE A JOB. Do my homework? I could insult you here, but you would ban me, so I’ll be nice and say Amen AJ, or course you’re right, as always.
FE,
Stop ranting. Your hole is deep enough. You admitted you have no idea how the guest worker (green card) programs work. I do. Do your homework and stop making things up and you will get some respect for your views. Can you think of why there is an exemption for under 16? Try really, really hard. Come on now….
They are like adults, but smaller….
Since you control this, I think you are doing a great job. Like
1. Everybody has to have a job,, unless they’re exempt
2. you had to have a job to get here and may have lost it. so you don’t have to have a job
3. you had to have a job to get here, unless you were under 16
4. You have to have a job, except for unexpected reasons, such as being under 16, over 65, being a spouse
5 . And ” you” think “I” don’t understand how the green card works?
My homework is summarized above, I realize you don”t have to do any, since you’re always right and you don’t want anyone to disagree with you.
I have asked you dozens of questions, you answer none, say I have no class, need to do my homework,
If you have ALL the answers, I’ll re ask you just this one. Forget about all the others and just do this one.
How can someone be REQUIRED to have a job and be exempted from it? They’re either required or exempted.
I’m looking forward to your answer because you have already said that you know everything, so have at it.
And I’ll thank you in advance for your correct answer.
Can you think of why there is an exemption for under 16?
Let me just wander around about this!
Hmm, you have to have a job to come to the US
If you lose it later, you don’t have to have one.
If you were under 16, you didn’t need one in the first place.
but, and I quote: You need a job and a sponsor before you can come here. And of course you are probable exempted even from this “You need a job and a sponsor” if for some reason you can’t get one.
So I don’t care how many times you say,You need a job and a sponsor, repeating it and hollering louder and louder and insisting you are right, DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE.
It only means you get the last word because you have the power to stifle dissent.
FE,
Man, when you flounder you really flounder. When you come here with your parents and you come of age you get exemptions so some fanatical right wing nut won’t try and deport you. Duh! Go read the exemption to understand it and STOP GUESSING!
You are no damn good at it.
You have to have a job to get into the program.
Y0u have to have a job. I deal with green card workers and those exemptions exist there too. You need a job and a sponsor
You cannot get a green card on an exemption.
Exemptions come after your here and you lose your job for some reason.
Of course it doesn’t mean you don’t ever have to find a job
Duh! Go read the exemption to understand it and STOP GUESSING!
When you come here with your parents and you come of age you get exemptions
Duh! You have to have a job, no exemption til you get here,, but if you are under 16, or over 65 or many other reasons, you can’t get a green card, you get something you can’t, ta da, an exemption.
And you think I’m floundering, well at least I’m having fun having someone call me dumb, that I need to do my homework, but the truth of the matter is, you got your foot in your mouth and don’t know how to get it out and still look intelligent at the same time.
It is an impossibility for you to win the argument because you don’t seem to realize that you are saying: You HAVE to have a job, but you really don’t have to, you can get an exemption, after you get here without the job that you didn’t have to have because you got an exemption, that you can’t get til you get here, that you actually got before you got here.
Duh! that’s quoted from you.
FE,
Chill. Not my fault you couldn’t figure out the under 16 exemption was for the children of guest workers with jobs. Geez, it was obvious!
I gave you plenty of hints. Remember?
Maybe you should stop digging that hole your in.
FE,
BTW – all your ranting and confusion is a really good indication to people why they should probably not take you too seriously on important issues. If you can’t unravel the ‘exemptions’ for guest workers so they do not face immediate deportation because they were injured or their children wouldn’t be kicked out of the country, then there is no reason to believe you have grasped the more complex aspects of this worked out.
Are you sure you want to continue down this path???
When you can’t argue the facts, attack the person
oh well
then there is no reason to believe you have grasped the more complex aspects of this worked out.
At least I’m working on the complex parts, some people seem to be struggling more with the simple aspects of it..