Jun 07 2007
Immigration Hypochondriacs Gloat At The Near Death Of Progress
Desperately clinging to the hope we can be stuck with the mess we have now with illegal immigration for another 10 years or more, the immigration hypochondriacs are cheering a democrat Senator for getting a poison pill amendment through late last night.
A fragile compromise that would legalize millions of unlawful immigrants risks coming unraveled after the Senate voted early Thursday to place a five-year limit on a program meant to provide U.S. employers with 200,000 temporary foreign workers annually.
The 49-48 vote came two weeks after the Senate, also by a one-vote margin, rejected the same amendment by Sen. Byron Dorgan. The North Dakota Democrat says immigrants take many jobs Americans could fill.
What is so sad is some people actually believe in a country with basically full employment there are Americans willing to pull up stakes and head to CA to pick vegetables because their computer engineering job went away (probably to India). Anyway, the glee from the right is another sign of how hypocritical they are when it comes to their pet issue. They are fighting tooth and nail to keep things as screwed up as they are now. Sadly for them, this is not a poison pill amendment.
Someone got smart and on a tight vote earned some leverage. This is the second time for this kind of vote and someone decided to get something in the final compromise. My guess is there will be some negotiating and then things get back on track. If not, the far left and right will have no room to complain about a problem they worked so hard to make permanent. But in reality the process seems to be a lot different from all the other bills that have passed Congress. It isn’t. There are ways to fix any problems in the House and in conference.
Is the bill dead? Not as dead as the conservative coalition that had done so much good work over the years, but has now finally lost all common ground with the far right. The far right have pulled up their stakes and said “no more compromises”. Thankfully there are plenty of people to forge coalitions with in this wonderful country of ours. Democracy is a wonderful thing because it of just this, it provides for such adaptations to made to solve sticky problems over the barriers thrown up by a minority. Even an ex-governing minority. So, we shall see what this person wants. I doubt it is more of the same mess we have, now the rallying cry on the right.
On another note Cornyn did get a good amendment passed to track down those who do not apply for one of the guest worker options. So at least some opponents are making the bill better rather than trying to kill it. Some, but not many.
I just gave consevratism my vote of “no confidence”:
http://calledasseen.blogspot.com/2007/06/my-vote-of-no-confidence-in.html
Gee, you suppose the hardliners will stop screaming at us about how we’ve got to do something about illegal immigration once this bill is dead?
No, I don’t think so either.
I’m not gloating AJ; once again, you paint us all with the same brush, as well as the others on this board, who happen to have the temerity to disagree with you!
Frist, I’m not sure it is dead, that’s first.
Second, I’ve said, SEVERAL TIMES, I’m all for an Immigration Bill, Guest Workers, etc.!
But it was, and is my desire, to see the Major loopholes, weaknesses of the bill closed up.
Shadegg and Sessions had legitimate concerns about the bill, as it was; and they proposed commonsense solutions to close some of the most egregious of those.
I don’t think that is “radical” or “hypochondriac” nor any of those things.
It’s commonsense, and it’s concern about a bill that is, in it’s current form, is “amnesty and open borders”, masquerading behind a facade of “enforcement and fines”.
Close it up, fix it, enforce and most important FUND the measures, close the loopholes, and PASS THE DAMN THING!
But again AJ, because you WANT THE BILL, you label all of who want some commonsense modifications, as the “hypochondriacs”, solely because we disagree with you.
AJ, a simple question for you; if 24% of all farm workers are illegals, who makes up the other 76%? If 50% of all sheetrockers are illegals, who are the other 50%? Or is that just another of the many questions you won’t answer?
I watched Frank Luntz and his N.H. Focus group on H&C last night. They all seem to want one thing first, and it aint Amnesty. The want the border SECURE, then you can legalize Criminal behavior.
N.H. isn’t a red state. McCain lost all support. It was interesting hearing what these people had to say. No flames comming out of their mouth, No Steam out of the Ears. Many went into the Group McCain supporters. They did not leave that way. Highly Educational.They don’t seem to trust DC to Secure the border AFTER Amnesty. I can’t immagine why that is, can you?
It seems the great Immigration Hypochrondiac Society is growing. Perhaps be Drown-em Kennedy has led is down this road before? Anyone trusts someone like Kennedy has got to have rocks in place of grey cells. The only difference between Kennedy and Chavez is that Kennedy has more money in off shore accounts.
Right. Secure the 1500-mile border. How long do you think that’ll take? Do you believe President Bush COULD have it all erected if only he had the will? How many environmentalist lawsuits will the government have to fight first? How many illegals will slip through before the Great Barrier is up? How much money will we need to pay people who own property on the border? How fast will government move to take that property through “eminent domain”? How many years will be required to “plug the leak” before we can move to Stage Two?
And while these years are ticking by, the twelve million plus who are already here are in semi-permanent illegal status — they can’t do anything to turn legal (because that would by definition require some sort of “amnesty”) except return to Mexico, which they probably aren’t going to do unless the country makes a big effort to make life here WORSE for them than it would be in Mexico, which probably won’t work, because even if ALL employers get the fear of God put into them and illegals can’t get hired to save their lives, some of these illegals start businesses of their own and would likely hire other illegals, and even if they don’t, there are always “just folks” who hire illegals to do stuff like babysitting or repair work.
I don’t believe you can get illegals to self-deport unless you can somehow make sure not only that they don’t work but can’t eat. I suspect that being unemployed in America beats being poor in Mexico 99% of the time. So you have a choice: deport illegals by force (good luck in finding them all, and good luck in keeping them out), or suffer them to remain here but illegal and hope that their lives somehow become bad enough that they deport themselves, or provide them with a way to become legal. That’s it. Build the wall if you think that’s so critical, but I don’t believe you can do it quickly and I don’t believe that it would be as effective as you might hope. (Suppose Mexicans start travelling to Baja California and sneaking into the U.S. by boat? What then?)
Aitch, perhaps you should do a little more research. The Pew Hispanic Research Center did a survey of Hispanic illegals in the U.S. and found that 90% of them had jobs in their native lands but left for better paying jobs here. So don’t give us that crap that they had no job back in Mexico.
And yes, if you cut off the social services they get and do not provide them with jobs, they will leave. That, my friend, has been proven.
I imagine many of your readers won’t long forget the exhausted contemptuous use of the word hypochondriacs to disparage your readers who don’t agree with you on immigration. You have made your point. Your right, end of discussion.
Here’s something you should think about and I’m not speaking for others who read your blog but only for myself. I’m tired of coming to this website and reading the condescending insults. I’m not going to stop reading your blog but I won’t long forget what you think of me. I’m a hypochondriacs.
I wish you nothing but the best and don’t think you are any of the things you’ve called me and people who believe as I do about this immigration bill. I do think you have lost respect amongst some of your readers and don’t know if your arguments were made in good will. I’ve gotten your message.
05,
Thanks for the profile of illegals. It’s good to know that 90% had jobs before coming here. That means they are employable and a welcome asset.
The bill is far fron dead yet. If it was was we would being hearing and seeing Dancing , and singing calls from the CORNER and MICKEY KAUS for High Pontifical mass at St Patricks to mark this great victory.
Right now it is quiet over there and it appears they are aware that another amendement will be offered to take the Sting out of the poison pill. If the immigration bill and great compromise was dead we would be hearing more.
In the end, those thay want this bill have this in our corner. THe GOP senators are committed really. They have commited the political sin against the holy spirit that cannot be forgiven by the “base” for even winking at this bill. If I was in their shoes I woud press ahead. THere is nothing to lose
The liberals have a problem too. It appears some immigration groups have come to their senses and saying support it. That is the cost of failure might ahve a consequence. In other words don’t play politics with this just because you want to give the PResident a defeat.
Sadly, the President is out of town engaged in important matters. We shall see if him not being able to be engaged in this all day and on the phone readily availabe to broker deals could be tragic
It will be interesting
BY the way why is NRO complaining about Kyl watering down the deal
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=M2UyMDY1MmQxYmZlYjczNDNmYmM3YzExOGQ1YmFjMzc=
HE is largely having to respond to their allainces in trying to kill the billat all cost. The right is aligning themselves with people more numerous and just as liberal to kill it
Count me as one who read but didn’t post, until now.
Count me offended – by you, A.J.
Q: During all of your verbiage, did you ever consider that building two parallel fences, filled with concertina wire, watched by towers armed with remotely operated weaponry (some nonlethal!) 🙂 would do to turn down the temperature on this debate?
As you’re fond of saying, it’s a $13T economy.
Q: Did you ever consider how offensive poor-mouthing a glorified chain-link fence sounds?
Q: Did you ever consider that this might finally be the spark for the Cultural Counterattack, wherein Decent America finally declares “Enough!” ?
I understand you live in NoVa, reasonably close to the Beltway. Please take a vacation far from DC, far from The SophistiHicks. Let your head clear…
Actions speak louder than words sometimes. This bill is dead until they want to open up discussion in a few key areas for amendments. Those who do not wish the bill to be amended or discussions to be open are not the ones who are trying to “compromise”. ….they are the ones trying to obstruct this. They have been all along.
Conservatives and the repub base are not against immigration or an immigration reform bill, just a lousy bill that would exacerbate the situation. Most don’t want amnesty, but if the border is secured and the flow of illegals is considerably slowed, then the base will be “accepting” of conditional measures to legalize those who are otherwise clean.
It’s really quite simple – the right & the middle, and even some on the left want our boders secured and the flow of illegals to stop, first. It’s the same message voiced back in Nov-06, only louder because the pols didn’t listen. (Of course, the MSM is surprised & clueless b/c they all swim in the same liberal pond.) AJ was wrong then and he’s wrong now.