Jun 08 2007
Those Whacky Hypochondriacs!
I read on a lot of conservative blogs it is time to kiss and make up. LOL! For what purpose? To go back into the mess and come up empty again. I note an old saying for those on the right who think rational calm can come from all this insanity. It goes to credibility and is one of my favorites: “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me!”.
I give everyone I meet in life full acceptance from the start. It is who I am. And of course people stumble and can make a mistake and screw up that trust. Once or twice is understandable, we are imperfect creatures But repeated abuse pretty much closes the door. And with so many people out there and so many possibilities to explore – there is not time to go back and re-open those doors, shut for good reasons, unless there is a really, really good reason.
Right now I cannot fathom a single issue this country is facing that either fringe will solve. They cannot solve them because they are inflexible – they are not open to new ideas. There is no more common ground. They cannot trust the impure and the dissenters and those who think outside the dogma. So while I applaud the good intentions, I fail to see the reasoning for a make-up love-fest. Politics is not about acceptance, it is about progress coming out of disparate views. It is about making common cause. There is no common ground to rally around. When diversity of opinions is shunned and people ridiculed for trying to work a compromise, why
go back into that mess again? Looks to be a total waste of time and effort to me.
Update: I think this view is probably a reasonable conclusion to take away from the immigration mess we are now left with:
The partisan blame game was already at fever pitch as the bill was going down yesterday. But to those far removed from the backrooms of Capitol Hill, what happened will fuel cynicism toward a political system that appears incapable of finding ways to resolve the nation’s big challenges.
If Washington cannot produce a solution to the glaring problem of immigration, they will ask, what hope is there for progress on health care, energy independence, or the financial challenges facing Medicare and Social Security? Iraq is another matter entirely.
Iraq is completely out of control of Congress and the partisans – for now. It is up to our military’s determination, the Iraqis determination, and to a large part the bloodlust of al-Qaeda to create a public backlash against them (they make Saddam look good). But the comment is fair and what I predicted. Nothing will get done now that the far right decided to burn everything down to stop the bill. They got what they wanted. It was at a steep price.
Cato:
Most is Mexican American in North Louisiana with the exception of a Houndourn popualtion from the numbers I see. THe only other immigrant group that comes close is the Asians.
“In that regard, the respect for the rule of law is critical. Unless you have actually spent time in Mexico, and tried to do business there (as I have), you have no idea how pervasive the cultural of corruption, the class system, and the disparities of wealth are. The primary reason so many Mexicans want to come here is that the society is such an utter failure for many of its people. ”
That is not so differnet for systems that other folks came from. The key is this that much like prior waves of immigrants that the population must disperse.
If one goes to River towns along the Missippi River you see that in histtory. Palces like Vicksburg became small outpost for the Italians and Irish that came in the migration. Nebraska Just look at the cities names(Prague, O’Connor, Pilsner, Genoa, Geneva, Gothenburg) was were settleded and prospered by those that left the areas of New York and elsewhere. There are reason why the KLAN was powerfulk in Indiana and certain areas like this. It had precious little to do with black folks.
We are seeing this pattern of hispanic dispersion again. THey will add to the culture not subsume it
I suppose the reason I believe this is not a crisis is thsi. I google and reasearch the vast fights we have had on immigration and new folks coming here throughout our history. It seems that all you have to do is to replace hispanic with “Asian. Polish, Italian, Slav, etc and the its the same thing.
Now, is this migration different because of promixity? Of course. That is one reason why I am for a comprehensive plan that notes those realities. However not all things are static. I do have hope that finally getting the real guts of NAFTA and the Central American trade Accord going will help.
Notice a irony here. How many of us recieved horror stories about the “Nafta Highway” and that Mexican trucks would be on our roads. Yet no one stops to think that thos eMExican trucks will be brings trade from MExcio and this increasing the opportunity for jobs there.
No one thinks that the reason for this Highway plan is because much of the commerce entering this Hemisphere will be coming through soon to be completed Mexican ports thus creating more jobs down there. In the ironies of ironies the people that sens stuff out like that are the same groups keeping the tempurature on this immigratuion issue.
DaleinAtlanta
Do you know who Roosevelt was referring to when he made that? Germans and Irish. Again he was refering to people that were a small minority but back then most thought they were all alike and thought that way.
History repeats itself
And I, a life long, single party voting Republican have been labled (sic) a traitor, un patriotic, destoyer (sic) of the USA. In all these years, I have never been called that by the left. …I trusted you all. Now, I am very suspicious of you.
TomAnon, I could as easily say the same thing from the other perspective: I’ve been an active Republican for more than 50 years, beginning with going door-t0-door for Ike in 1956, and including working for Bill Knowland in 1958, Dick Nixon in 1960 and 1962, Barry Goldwater in 1964, and Nixon in 1968 and 1972, and so on down to working for Bush in 2004 and my local RINO ‘pubbie Congressman last fall. And, the Bush administration and many of the proponents of the Grand Comprehensive Reform Bargain has impugned my patriotism at least as much as the right has impugned yours.
Get over it.
There are going to be issues where Bush needs us (former) Republicans as much as ever regardless of our diverging views on immigration — the war for example — and other issues where we will part ways. We may remain suspicious of each other, but we should — all of us — never lose sight of our common goals and cooperate where we can: the Democrats will only be worse.
Cato,
We are over it. And we are over the GOP. Gladly.
Dale,
Nice fig leaf, not sure it fits. Why would that stir me up? I find those waving the flag as they leave us the same mess quite humorous. I love irony.
Cato How is this correct
“my local RINO ‘pubbie Congressman last fall. And, the Bush administration and many of the proponents of the Grand Comprehensive Reform Bargain has impugned my patriotism at least as much as the right has impugned yours.”
Really all this comes from remarks that are taken out of context:
He said
“”Those determined to find fault with this bill will always be able to look at a narrow slice of it and find something they don’t like,” the president said. “If you want to kill the bill, if you don’t want to do what’s right for America, you can pick one little aspect out of it.
“You can use it to frighten people,” Bush said. “Or you can show leadership and solve this problem once and for all.”
As another blogger said
“Plenty of people oppose this particular bill but are willing to consider other realistic solutions, rather than making demands they know are impossible. They are not included among those who “don’t want to do what’s right for America,” according to President Bush”He attacks those for whom no bill is acceptable — other than pure enforcement and deportation, which they know very well will never pass Congress. He castigates people who want to see any regularization plan crash and burn, even if it takes the entire Republican Party with it, leaving the Democrats with total power. “At least then,” such bitter-enders say, “we’ll know who to blame when the country is destroyed!”.
Bush has had his patriotism and his integrety questioned 24/7. Very little was done to rein that in
Would anyone consider Giuliani to be a “far right winger” or a “immigration hypochondriac”? The phrase “far right winger” just doesn’t pop into my head when I think of Giuliani. But maybe that’s just me.
Giuliani described this bill this way –
The front-runner in recent polls, former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, called it “a typical Washington mess.”
“The litmus test you should have for legislation is, is it going to make things better?” Giuliani said. “And when you look at these compromises, it is quite possible it will make things worse.”
Source for the quote above –
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/06/05/debate.immigration/
And they didn’t report everything that Giuliani said. He actually went on to say that in his opinion, this immigration bill WOULD make illegal immigration worse. And he said it would also HARM National security. Hmmm….. where have I heard that before????
Now, here is a very simple and direct question – If this bill would indeed make the illegal immigration problem worse, and it would also harm National security, why, in the name of all that is holy, would it be a good idea to pass such a bill?
biglsusportsfan, AJ:
I have not been one of those impugning the patriotism of the bill’s proponents, I’ve tried to have a civil conversation, and I’ll try to continue to have a civil conversation on the merits of each issue.
AJ, I’ve read your blog with respect and pleasure for over a year, and this is the first issue where I’ve found your position with respect to those who disagree with you, even respectfully, as I think I have, to be so hostile.
Cato
LOL! Hostile? How have I been hostile? If this is the first time you have debated in opposition to me you may find it a bit tough. But I am not hostile towards anyone individually.
My observations about the GOP being dysfunctional and intolerant are not only shared by many others, but the hard right itself provides endless examples of insults and demeaning their opponents. So while you may be civil, those you have allied with are not worth any respect whatsoever.
I said there would be a penalty to pay if the anti-immigration forces played this wrong. I said that before they went crazy. I was simply right this was going to happen. No one will trust those who cheered the loss of the bill yesterday for a long, long time. And they earned that response many times over.
Maybe you simply chose the wrong side to be with on this one. Winning at any cost does mean there is a cost. And a high one at that. There is only one way out of this mess and it is on the shoulders of those who tanked this bill. They need to work to repair the credibility and earn back the trust of those who take issue with the senseless Bush bashing, etc.
I just don’t think they have it in them to do what is necessary to build that trust up again. They seem to be only skilled with bashing Bush and their so called allies.
AJ & Blu: I said quite clearly, when I posted it, I was doing it to “stir” things up; I never said, once, that it applied to today, that it “fit”, nor that it applied to Mexicans, nor anything else!
I just threw it in there, to see what it would do; I made that clear!
I’m defending it, I’m not attacking it, I’m not attacking TR, I’m not saying it’s applicable to today’s situation; I just put it there, to get a reaction, I thought that was evident?
that should be “….NOT defending it….”
You all’s reactions provided my point, by the way!
–begin quote–
From the podium, Giuliani described the bill as a “typical Washington messâ€â€”one that, in his view, will only make the nation’s illegal immigration problems worse. McCain replied that he could brief Giuliani on the bill, implying that the former New York City mayor didn’t know what he was talking about. “I’ve read the 400 pages,†Rudy snapped in response. (Giuliani has read the entire immigration bill? Perhaps—but it’s doubtful that most of the members of the Senate set to vote on the legislation can credibly make that claim).
–end quote–
source for the above quote –
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19064321/site/newsweek/page/0/
Strata comments that the “bloodlust” of al Qaeda makes Saddam look good. I’ll skip over the irony that Bush brought al Qaeda into Iraq, while Saddam had kept it out to make a larger point.
The overwhelming majority of Iraqis believe the
US military is responsible for killing of more Iraq innocents
than is al Qaeda.
“I am not with the country on Able Danger, the NSA program (what it means and what happened), and I am not a defeatist on Iraq, like most of the country is. Do you think this worries me? ”
Strata should review his many posts on the war and immigration
where he represents his position as that of the majority
and does so in a way that shows he does attach both
personal enthusiasm and importance to it.
Apache et. al.: you’ve all GOTTA come over to the “Diyala” thread!
Raving maniac Leftist “Soothsayer”, has invented himself a dyed-in-the-wool Anti-American, Anti-Semitic, Pro-Jihadi Lunar Chiroptera Leftist Doppleganger Sockpuppet, named “THECENTERCANNOTHOLD”, in order to attempt to debate Me, of all people, on Islam, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.!
It is freaking hilarious; he even quotes JUAN COLE of all people, as well as Google’s his opinion and Leftist talking points, before each post!
Too amusing….
As a result, “Soothsayer”/”THECENTERCANNOTHOLD” truly is talking out of both sides of his mouth at the same time!
Beautiful…..
Aj,
I don’t condon the name calling by those of us that are against amnesty nor do I condon it by those for amnesty. With that said you must understand that conservatives are tired of the same old amnesty bill. We have heard from Ted Kennedy since 1965 that this bill will solve the immigration problem. Congress has failed at this for 42 years, and now the current bill essentially does the same thing as the 1986 bill did so why do we want another bill that doesn’t fix the problem?
Can we deport violent criminals today under existing law? Yes, so why don’t we? Why do we need a temporary worker program when we already have one, see here under temporary workers
Aj, What the otherside has failed to explain is why it is we can’t enforce existing law and if they can’t enforce existing law how will they be able to enforce this law?
conservativesuperiority.com