Jun 13 2007
Michelle Proves My Point
Michelle Malkin has made my point about the idiocy of saying all we need to do is enforce our laws and we are good. She has a long list of cases where the laws fell down and failed. Not because law enforcement was not trying (duh – that is why these cases were in court) but because the laws on the books are impotent and full of holes. Malkin likes to claim those we see this and realize the immigration bill will close a lot of those holes so when these cases go to court the government wins more are either (1) Liars or (b) Clueless.
Whatever Michelle. The fact is she provides a strong case why the status quo is a failure not because of a lack of effort or money or fences. It is a failure because it is FUBAR’d. While imperfect, the immigration bill fixes a lot of these holes. It includes “amnesty” as well for the long term illegals here now. But instead of fixing these holes and stopping this madness and taking the criminals off the streets and showing them the door at our border, Malkin continues to kid herself that we should not pass the bill.
This illogical position is rapidly becoming untenable and will fail. Just as it fails the laugh test. Our laws are broken so heaven forbid we do something to fix them! It is Malkin, Tancredo and Lou Dobbs who are fighting to keep this mess. Two thirds are ready to work the problem and get beyond this pretzel logic infecting the far right of the GOP.
BTW, the rift on the right is real and some are waking up. DJ Drummond addresses the issue well. I feel I was in the camp that tried to warn those who were going too far that they should slow down. I tried it respectfully. I have now joined a new camp – I am do not want to bury the hatchet. Too many trips down the purity road. Too many times hard core emotions torpedoed the conservative coalition, taking aim out fellow cons. Too many willing to go the scortched earth path to win. I was once in the let’s try to work this out camp. Now I am in the ‘why would I want to ally with these people’ camp. I am not being vindictive. I have been utterly repulsed. To much vitriol, too much hate, to much of a lot of bad things I don’t need to name anymore. That is why I say the coalition is over. I tend to be one of the last rats to jump a sinking ship. I am an optimist at heart.
But there comes a point to close the chapter and move on. Without some kind of mea culpa from the flame throwers on the right and a commitment to not repeat what has been repeated many times now since Harriet Miers had her name dragged through the mud – that chapter seems better closed. Everytime I peak at the comments at Free Republic and Lucianne and LGF I see reasons to shut the door again – not walk back in. At some point you stop seeing the good and you see all the bad and it becomes too much, it overpowers the good.
And this polling data from gallup has something for everyone. It has a long view and there is a lot of information here.
If I read it correctly is said that 58% did not have enough real information to make a decision about the bill. Considering the level of debate that is not surprising. I am afraid there is more heat than light.
Since the term “illegal” has very little value to you and your followers, let me try a different tact, and hopefully avoid getting too personal.
AJ, I presume you have a very nice house in a very nice neighborhood. Do you have a fence around your house? Of course you don’t. Why would you want to stop anyone from illegally entering your property. If you do have a fence, you should be ashamed and tear it down immediately.
In regards to amnesty, its short sighted to think that we can assimilate 12+million new citizens (plus 5 relatives each ) into our country without having a significant negative impact. Our Congress has just passed a federal minimum wage increase from $5.15 to $7.25 an hour over the next two years. For those hiding in the shadows, there may be plenty of jobs available in today’s economy, but when cost of living skyrockets and the economy tanks, these former illegals will come out and shout “we are citizens” and we demand our RINO given rights to government services. A bloated entitlement and welfare roll creates bigger government. AJ, maybe you are into bigger government, but I certainly am not.
AJ, have you ever been to Santa Ana, California. Don’t send your wife here alone. I live here and I wouldn’t even recognize it from what it used to be if I had not watched its demise over the last 13 years. And you know about “reconquista?” Does that word have any meaning for you? Do you feel the same deep passion that the people who whisper that word feel? Do you believe, like they do, that it could really happen? Probably not where you live. Reconquista! Become familiar with it.
In any event, once the “Invasion USA” amnesty bill passes and when all of the bad things that your conservative opponents fear most come true, it will be too late for you and your like to say “I’m sorry, I was wrong.” AJ, I live here in a reality that is different from what most of the country sees.
Holy cannoli. You need to take a look at LSU’s link and see the political cartoons from late 1800s/early 1900s.
…Wasp magazine???
…so Catholics really took the brunt of our previous xenophobia outbreaks.
…lynching of 11 Italians …Republicans leading the restrictionist movement …phobias, conspiracy theories & terrible depictions ripped right out of today’s blogosphere and radio stations. Amazing stuff.
Go take a look – and be prepared for a bit of a shock:
http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/messagetopic.asp?p=4790637
Terrye, read the latest Gallop poll taken just this past June. It states that most Americans were not really following the immigration issue. Then, in just the next paragraph, it says that those polled who were asked if they were following the immigration closely or very closely, it found that an average of 60% were.
It contradicts it’s own statements.
SallyVee, perhaps you should apply for a job with Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton. After all, pandering to racism is big business and has lined their wallets quite fatly. If you think that this whole IL-legal immigation issue revolves around racism and bigotry, then you could help the poverty pimps convince people that the KKK is about to ride again and we are going to see black Americans hung from old oak trees. Your slogan could be “They did it once, they’re gonna do it again.”
Or, you could realize that for most of us, it is a matter of the rule of law and the sovereignty of our nation, not race.
UglyinLA, I live out here in San Diego and I know exactly what you’re talking about. I went on a motorcycle camping trip up to Big Sur and the Redwoods last weekend for four days. Sunday I came back down the 5 through LA and stopped in Santa Ana. Man, when you get off the freeway and get gas, it’s like you landed in a foreign country. Very few signs in english other than roadsigns. Nobody speaking english. Trash and filth everywhere. Homeless people, gangs, that all that is left. Shops all look like fly by night businesses in run down buildings with broken windows, grafitti everywhere. I saw a foreign meat market in a building that looked like it was bombed out. Really, I couldn’t even tell that it was actually open for business until I walked up and looked in the window. It was open and dirty as all hell. It’s real depressing.
It is a fact that part of this argument about the immigration situation is cultural. That much is true. But the very people who knock others for making that argument don’t live where the culture is changing so fast that it is destroying the very thing people come here to have. These people who live in the gang controlled barrios are not living the American Dream, they hide in their houses at night in fear of a bullet coming through the wall. Those of us who want that to stop are somehow bigots and don’t like brown people. There are many things I like about hispanic culture, there is very little I can tolerate about Mexican culture. It is oppressive and ugly.
You’re also very right about one thing, if these beltway clowns who live in pristine land were to have to move somewhere like Santa Ana, they would have a real hard change of attitude about this immigration situation right freakin now! Then they would say, I’m sorry, I didn’t know. But it is already too late for some places in LA. They will probably will not recover for many years. Once the mexican politicians got in, it was all over for them. Only choice for any sane person was to leave.
Retire – hate to turn down your career suggestion. But racism or bigotry or just the age-old desire to blame a “them” for a set of problems largely of our own making over a long period, is rampant across history and humanity. It has reared its head in this very debate, right here in America circa 2007. That’s my opinion and I didn’t invent it to annoy or alarm you. My slogan more accurately would be “they’ve done it many times before, and they’re fixin’ to do it again, but not without resistance from me, dammit.”
Please don’t take it personally if the shoe doesn’t fit. But also, please don’t suggest that I am imagining things. And you know what? Sovereignty is not holy here on planet earth. It does not trump or negate morality, or cause me to quake in its presence. It’s a big, important sounding word that can be used to shift the debate to a loftier sounding plane. But I reject the tactic because so much of this debate has been fought waaaaay below the belt, down and dirty — nothing noble or particularly well concealed about it. I’m not necessarily referring to you! But lots of people & orgs with various interests have been playing fast and loose with the facts and the insinuations for a long time now. I hope we can get past those tactics, but I can’t pretend I haven’t been deeply affected and my trust badly undermined.
Those political drawings are remarkable and fascinating on many levels. They tell a story we can learn from. And they make Al & Jesse seem rather tame by comparison, as race baiters go. Just my take.
Sally…they are cartoons hun.
I’ve got some great Far Sides.
Oh well. The US (like any other country) has had the capability to control the numbers of immigrants from any given country that come here per year, etc. We’ve completely lost control of that. They just come here whenever..how ever..etc. Beyond that, the cartoons you’ve linked to..were about “legal” immigration issues….not illegal ones.
Yes…I suspect most people would prefer people come here through the “front” door. Some have tried to make argument that this new bill …will somehow change all the past efforts which were dumped shortly after they were passed by some of the same people who now currently hawk this bill. Most people aren’t buying it. Most people seem to think the last version of the bill would in fact make things even worse. Arguments were made on both sides..but it wasn’t “our” side that stopped that debate….it was yours. They tried to cut off debate on it…and ram it through and it failed.
The current bill could go forward. We dont’ know yet. The senators (DNC and RNC) are scampering to try and salvage it by adding in provisions, etc..to address tthese concerns and bring the bill back out at a tough on immigration policy ..as opposed to an illegals legalization bill..that has some “compromise” provisions that strengthen current laws to help cut some red tape out of the current laws we aren’t enforcing (from last time we had this debate). It’s also true that most people out here..understand who it was that cut off debate on this bill and sought to kill any futher changes to it. (it wasn’t us).
So, anyway…as I said…it will all take care of itself. It’s all part of the democratic processes of give and take to reach consensus. That apparently is not acceptable to some people. But it will just have to do (smile)
Uh, political cartoons, dear. Very much akin to today’s dominant political blogosphere & talk radio sphere… rife with extremes, conspiracy theories, and propaganda.
I don’t recall Gary Larsen drawing cartoons that did anything but make me laugh. (He is still my all-time favorite… “Suffering from low self esteem, Bob took a job as a speed bump.”)
Yes…Bullshit….in otherwords.
My fav Gary Larson was a two pager: one the left page was a Terrets syndrome clinic. On the right page..was a pet shop…with a sign that said…Parrots on sale…half price.
Yes, bullshit! Point! (Dang it, you remind me of my husband right now.) But but but! it’s B.S. that has managed to pollute the airwaves and the debate to an alarming extent, and in this case it also misrepresents my party to a future constituency I want to recruit, not repel.
Recall then, the silly cartoons reflected actual enacted policy like Chinese exclusion laws… the unofficial war against the Irish/Catholics… the little chapter called Black slavery and later the rounding up of Japanese. So pardon me if I think it’s important to point out the B.S., now. I think it’s disingenuous to think we have somehow evolved beyond the possibility of repeating our mistakes. At the point in time I am convinced the few are on the retreat, I will be happy/relieved/thrilled to let it go. I’ll revert to my usual cheery, optimistic, benefit-of-the-doubt giving self. Deal?
As for your other points DC, you’re persuasive. Keep talking. I very badly want to move beyond this log jam. And I admit I am beginning to relax… just a little.