Jul 26 2007
Stifling Political Discussion
I have seen a disturbing trend while on travel this week. I work with a great group of people and we have been in meetings and lunches and dinners (the usual travel fair) and one thing has been completely missing. No one dares talk politics. I have broached the subject here and there, but people just clam up. I ended up talking with a young lady at the restaurant who was an athlete and into biking (my new addiction). She helped give me confidence and pointers on how to extend my range to 100 miles a day (something I will now work towards given some confidence I am not too old to pull this off – yet!). But what caught me up was when any political topic came up the discussion dropped off dramatically. After seeing this phenomena in action for a couple of days now I realize how bad things have become in the country.
Most people are quite moderate in their views and open to discussion. I can force some banter through persistence, but it does take work. There are the exceptions, those very vocal. But they tend to be at the extreme ends of the political spectrum. One of the folks I work with just goes off on a liberal tirade against Bush whenever politics comes up – and trust me I like this guy a lot. He is great to work with. But it does seem the intensity of the fringes is muting the voices of the moderates left of center, center and right of center. This is not good for this nation. We need to discuss the issues and resolve a path forward. We need the debate.
The problem is most of us are not in the mood for a Crossfire-like yelling match filled with insults against people of differing views. The Carville-Begala brand of discourse the Clinton’s brought to our nation is one of those stains I wish we could erase. It fostered the right to also stop trying to be reasonable and serious and go for the dramatic headlines instead. We have the media to blame for much of this. They refuse to print information, they only cover drama. We see this across the board. In Iraq it is all about bombs and bodies, rarely about progress and signs of normalcy.
We need to take the time to open up America. And we need to respect the differing views. No more “RINOs”. No more “rightwing”. Because when we do not use our freedom of speech the right way, we end up on a path where we may lose it all together. Showing respect might be hard for some, but it is something we should be doing more of.
I am one of the silent majority. I’m tired of politics — at least tired of political discussion. I burned out during the ’04 election and have not wanted to talk politics since. I read online pubs and blogs, and I occasionally leave comments, but that’s about it. I quit watching the news and anything political; I just couldn’t take the Crossfire-like brawls. I loathe the RINOS as much as the Dems, and I’m totally disgusted with the Bush-bashing from both sides.
I’ll bet there are a lot of us “Howard Beals” in cross-over country — mad as hell and not going to take it anymore. The “it” being national security. Either these politicians don’t fully understand what’s at stake, thereby making them stupid, or they do, which would make them evil. I used to think they were stupid, but more and more I’m thinking they’re just pure evil.
I’m biding my time, waiting for the ’08 elections.
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I can not agree more, there is not longer any civility, and it is dangerous. It reminds me of the new song from Toby Keith “Hate me if you want too, love me if you can”, it describes the current situation beautifully.
I wish I had a recipe, but I don’t. The current congress, the media, the hateful venom coming from all sides has gotten out of control. The media continue with their mischief, and when all is said and done, it goes back to 2000.
For someone like hillary Clinton to state during the last debate ‘that someone else won in 2000’, and accompanying remarks openen up the wounds once more on part of those voted for Al Gore.
There is no need for such discourse, the world is watching, and has given America a big black eye. The constant drumbeat against President Bush, the namecalling, the labeling has caused much damage, and I am not sure what the solution is, but whenever I chat with friends worldwide, I hear the same over, and over that Pres. Bush is the devil, dumb, a liar, a nazi, you get the picture.
Having raised three woderful children, I am dismayed that my youngest (25yrs old) is being ridiculed at work for expressing conservative views, California is intolerant of anything other than super duper liberal opinions.
I would suggest that all those who believe in prayers to begin earnestly praying for this great country, whom has been blessed for so long. Just a thought.
I rarely talk politics with my friends and when I do, it is generally at a somewhat abstract level. It really stared downhill with the 2000 elections and the claim that Bush somehow “stole” it. There has been an undercurrent of “impeach him” ever since.
Our political institutions are now a mockery too. The Senate, unable to find anything illegal would call for an investigation or a “special prosecutor” in the hopes that someone might be charged with wrongdoing in the course of the investigation rather in WHAT they are investigating (Re: Scooter Libby and the current US Attorney flap). You “investigate” a non-crime and hope you can jail someone for slipping up in the COURSE of the investigation. (Libby thinking maybe he told Tim Russert something but finding out he DIDN’T say anything to Russert and so he is convicted for NOT doing something he thought he might have).
It is a circus. And it almost isn’t worthy of discussion at all.
Following up on what Crosspatch said about Congress – here is some statements from Tony Snow today.
“In any event, it’s worth putting this in perspective in terms of the accomplishments of the present Congress. If you take a look at the 110th Congress right now, which had promised to have all of its appropriations bills done this month, here’s what we have seen since the beginning of the Congress: More than 300 executive branch investigations or inquiries; 400 requests for documents, interviews, or testimony; we’ve had more than 550 officials testify; we’ve had more than 600 oversight hearings; 87,000-plus hours spent responding to oversight requests; and 430,000 pages made available to Congress for oversight. That’s pretty significant.
In fact, the 87,000 hours that we mentioned that have been used in document production — that’s equal to more than nine-and-a-half years — and here’s your graphic of the day, ladies and gentlemen — if you took those 430,000 pages and stack them on top of each other, they would reach a height twice that of the executive mansion, itself. ”
Looks like Congress is doing more political payback then doing the people’s business.
Guess 14% approval isn’t low enough for them…-5% in the future?
I have one of those jobs where we are not supposed to argue with people and so politics is rarely spoken of. I prefer it that way. The other day someone ask me how I felt about the war and I told her. She told me that her son joined the military and now he is going to Iraq because people like me don’t care if he dies. I told her that if she felt that way about it I really wish her son had not joined up at all.
And then I tried to walk away.
This is what I think a lot of people do, they try to walk away. Whether it is the left with the war and their witch hunts or the right with immigration, some people just have to demonize the other guy.
This is not good. We are all Americans.
I find it almost impossible to discuss politics because I am more angry now, than I was after the 2004. There is a difference in 2007…I can not tolerate the Malkins, Ingrahams and Lopezs. Zip. Zero. Regardless of even the issues I agree. It compares with my tolerance of McCain. I have a list on him a mile long but had put it aside because at least he still supported the war. No more. Zero tolerance after I heard him opine on my main beef against him. He told a group that when he was President, he would announce that the USA did not torture. He would stop it. That makes me so mad (since he insisted on painting us as torturers and President Bush as Chief Torturer), I could spit. And this is the ‘war candidate’. Just great.
Then the idiots that thought they could be so pure that Gonzales must go for the good of us all. Rather like Brownie must go. Or anyone that the Dem leadership pointed at and cried ‘incompetence’ or ‘corruption’. And so many of the blogs that I respected just put on their hairshirts and said ‘yep, we need intergrity!’ Give me a break.
The public has been fed a diet of lies by the Dem MSM. I get it with my coffee on Good Morning America. They say it as if it is accepted FACT. Not even a discussion. So what’s to discuss and with whom?
My Dem neighbor that I really like……good people but they believe the lies. They consider it accepted fact. My legalized friend that I convinced to vote Pug? Sure. After Pugs painted us as intolerant bigots as surely as McCain painted Bush as a torturer?
Can’t discuss the good Congressmen. I would hang at least half of the Pugs because of their destructive behavior…….or worse…….sitting on their azzes while POINTING at Bush and praying no one would notice them.
Like it or lump it…….George W Bush was the glue. Many like to ignore that fact and say it is ‘our conservative principles’ and such. Sure. Keep saying it as Hillary/Obama take the White House. People like Obama. That simple. People liked George W Bush. I still do. As much today as 2000…….actually more. A man that deserves my repect. Nope, some of us are just not principled enough. I intend to vote for the only candidate I see that even stands a shot against the Dems………Rudy. Not Fred. Imperfect Rudy. Even then, I give the odds just a little better than Dole against Clinton. Which universe did the people who thought Dole would win live? Some in our Party have wrecked such havoc that it is impossible to discuss politics.
So I mainly try to keep my mouth shut these days. It ain’t easy. We had all three seats. The American public liked Bush enough to elect and re-elect, in spite of the MSM’s lies. It is NOT the war. We had our fool Supervising Senators and the Speech/Bookwriting Pundits that turned the hounds of hell loose on us all.
I happily talk politics with fellow Republicans, even the ones who still listen to Malkin and read Tancredo stuff. I always tell them how much we agree on almost all issues, and even when we don’t agree we are on the same team. No Republican will fight with me. We are all able to discuss calmly.
When I have no idea of a person’s political leanings, or when I know they lean left, I never bring up politics. If they broach the subject, it is usually with a negative comment about Pres. Bush. I stop them and say, “I love Pres. Bush and he has my full support.” When they continue and try to get me to argue, I mention Clinton. I ask them if they thought he was a good Pres? They all say YES! and that’s when I say, “Well, I feel the same way about Bush. Nothing you can say will change my mind.” Sometimes they continue and want to discuss specific issues, like Immigration. I then state my views and tell them how I arrived at my opinion. Believe it or not, I can find common ground with almost anyone. We can then have a polite conversation even if we disagree.
As far as Malkin, Ingram, most of the NRO commentators, Gallagher and Savage, I have no use for them anymore. They have used their radio shows and blogs to line their pockets and try to prove how influencial they are. I don’t listen and seldom read. If I do read it is to see if they are still suffering from BDS.
Owl:
I hear you. But I am more tolerant of McCain because of his service. I don’t think he is right about the torture issue, but I understand where he is coming from.
As for the Malkins and Tancredos and the whole NRO crowd, they can go peddle it elsewhere. They are only interested in their own careers anyway.
Will Civility Prevail?…
AJ Strata hit the nail on the head today with this post. I was particularly impressed with this paragraph:
Most people are quite moderate in their views and open to discussion. I can force some banter through persistence, but it does take work. There …
Harangue via platitude…
In my personal experience, people on the left are less likely (than the right) to engage over issues, and more likely to throw out numerous hit and run platitudes. This stifles political discussion, b/c it is not discussion, but rather is harangue via platitude.
Harangue via platitude…
In my personal experience, people on the left are less likely (than the right) to engage over issues, and more likely to throw out numerous hit and run platitudes. This stifles political discussion, b/c it is not discussion, but rather is harangue via platitude.
Hi owl,
long time no hear – I agree with you, sometimes I catch myself boiling over with anger, feeling like all politicians need to be ‘reliefed off duty’.
I admire Pres. Bush’s elegance in style, he lives by the saying ‘keep your friends close, but your enemies closer’!
Coming 2008, he will be missed, dems, and their partners in crime MSM will have no longer a reason to bash Pres. Bush.
Owl and Fedup I am with you both.
So much is being exposed as being the same coin, just the opposite side.
Go George! We love you!
“Owl and Fedup I am with you both.
ivehadit”
Thanks ivehadit! I often agree with you and sometimes just want to post ditto to your posts. Terrye I love reading your comments too.
GCOTHARN – I agree that most of the time it is people on the left wanting to pick the fight.