Oct 10 2007
Muslim Spokesmen Who Can Speak Credibly Against al-Qaeda
The UK’s Telegraph is doing some great reporting from the ground in Iraq. One of their reporters is out in the provinces getting his eyes and ears on the stories and it is turning out to be quite an interesting read. I have linked to them before because of the fresh, objective reporting on Iraq as it is. Today’s reporting is on how to re-unite those who went to al-Qaeda to fight a Holy War against America only to find Islamo Fascists massacring Iraqi Muslims.
One of the successful returnees was Eid Mehlif Alab, a school friend of Sheikh Kurdi who had operated safe houses and gathered intelligence for terrorist groups.
“When the Americans took control Fallujah was the only place to seek safety,” he said. “But it was tiring to be away from home, family and friends. When it became clear that al-Qa’eda were not in Iraq for holy war but terrorism, the option of returning back in peace was there.”
Some may balk at the idea of allowing those who supported al-Qaeda to ‘return’, but the fact is al-Qaeda fooled the world into thinking it was a spiritual re-awakening of pure Islam when it was Islamo Fascists out to rule the world. They just use Islam as a cover for their bloodlust.
These people, who fought with al-Qaeda and then realized the horror of their mistake will be the best spokesmen for our cause. They will have the most credibility because they went off to fight Jihad and risk their lives. And so when they pull the mask of al-Qaeda it will be taken seriously by many more Muslims than if we make the same claims about the fascists of al-Qaeda.
There were plenty of Germans who testified to the horrors of the Nazis and were credible because they were Nazis – in the sense they joined up out of patriotism and because they naively believed the Nazi propaganda. Their recounting of their internal horror at finding out the truth as very powerful – because it was heartfelt. This is a difficult balancing act to manage who can returnr, and will come down to being test on a person-by-person basis. But those who believed the lies, went to fight with al-Qaeda, and then learned the truth will be important voices in how this all ends up. They will be able to relate, first-hand, the lies and atrocities of al-Qaeda, driving a nail through the heart of the movement within the Muslim community.
Some may balk at the idea of allowing those who supported al-Qaeda to ‘return’, but the fact is al-Qaeda fooled the world into thinking it was a spiritual re-awakening of pure Islam when it was Islamo Fascists out to rule the world. They just use Islam as a cover for their bloodlust.
And they do it effectively. How? By quoting the Qur’an.
http://jihadwatch.org/archives/2007/10/018346print.html
Examples:
“O prophet! Strive hard against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be harsh against them. Their abode is hell, and an evil destination it is.†Quran 9:73
O you who believe! Take not the Jews and Christians for your friends and protectors: they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guides not a people unjust.†Quran 5:51
Bin Laden goes on to quote Quran 9:65-66; 33:19; 51:56; 8:39; 54:43; 33:36; 4:84; and 9:87-88.
Allah the Most High says:
“And fight them until there’s no fitnah (polytheism) and religion is wholly for Allah.†Quran 8:39
So, you see, Bin Laden, al queda, use the QUR’AN to justify their violence. IT’S IN THERE DUDE!
And those peacefull quotations in the Qur’an have been ABROGATED.
Abrogate: to abolish. annul, or repeal by authority.
In 613 A.D. Muhammad went to Mecca. He preached peace. By 622 A.D. he went to Medina. He then claimed that Allah, thru the Angel Gabriel, had given him new commands. They were no longer peaceful. And that is where ABROGATION COMES IN. The peaceful verses were ABROGATED by ALLAH.
You see, they had trouble spreading Islam thru peaceful means. So, Allah gave new revelations that replaced the old ones.
http://jihadwatch.org/islam101/
http://www.meforum.org/pf.php?id=1754
There is but one Qur’an. Moderate Muslims read the same one as Bin Laden. The difference is, the moderate Muslims CHOSE to Ignore the revelations that Muhammad gave later in his life, that are not peaceful. Fine and dandy, but in doing so, the ignore Allahs wishes.
Listen, I’m only trying to help you understand Islam. I was in your boat for many years as well. Your a stuborn student, which is understandable, until I baught and watched: OBSESSION, I too, was under the assumption the Bin Laden “Hijacked” a peaceful religion. He most certainly did not. He is following his religion properly, which gives me no comfort in saying that.
Please, do yourself a favor, click on the links I provide. It can’t hurt, but it certainly can help.
Steven Emerson:
Yesterday I received his book AMERICAN JIHAD: The Terrorists living Among us. It was written in 2002, AND IT IS FANTASTIC!
You would do yourself a tremendous service in ordering a copy thru Amazon as I did. I read 78 pages yesterday, and I had trouble stopping at that.
There is a wealth of data showing the networks HERE in the U.S.
There is also a chapter called: A Brief History of Islamic Fundamentalism, which goes over much of what I posted above. As does Robert Spencers book: The Truth about Muhammad. As do most books I own.
I also purchased and received yesterday Bat Ye’or’s book: EURABIA, The Euro-Arab Axis. I will be reading that shortly.
She was born in Egypt, raised in Europe. She is an Islamic Scholar. She was in ISLAM: What The West Needs To Know, which was a great documentary.
And this documentary is a great teacher of the Qur’an, Qur’an verses, Medina, Mecca, Muhammad, ABROGATION, and so much more.
It’s really a 90 minute book that you do not have to read. And, like Obsession, it to is available at Amazon.
Take Care folks. There is a lot to learn, you just need the will to do so.
Osama bin Laden has been pretty up front on the reasons he wages war against the West. As I understand it, Islam may not wage offensive jihad absent the establishment of a caliphate. And Sunni and Shia have been unable to agree on who should be caliph for QUITE some time now.
In the absence of a caliphate, however, according to bin Laden ALL Muslims are required to defend the faith of Islam and Islamic soil if it is occupied by infidels (i.e., US).
The United States has 730+ military bases in 130 nations around the world, including “Islamic” countries such as Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Kirghizstan, Iraq, Turkey (and probably more, I’m likely missing some). We also have ongoing military/intelligence operations (on the down-low) against Iran and Pakistan.
While I certainly don’t agree with bin Laden’s belief system, I can at least understand that the US’s far-flung military footprint, combined with the fact that in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait we prop up non-democratic monarchies that tolerate theocratic terrorists, serves to actuate Islamic response against US interests around the world.
If we’re all about DEMOCRACY – how about some democracy in Kuwait and/or Saudi Arabia??
This Should Help:
Those Westerners who manage to pick up a translation of the Quran are often left bewildered as to its meaning thanks to ignorance of a critically important principle of Quranic interpretation known as “abrogation.” The principle of abrogation — al-naskh wa al-mansukh (the abrogating and the abrogated) — directs that verses revealed later in Muhammad’s career “abrogate” — i.e., cancel and replace — earlier ones whose instructions they may contradict. Thus, passages revealed later in Muhammad’s career, in Medina, overrule passages revealed earlier, in Mecca. The Quran itself lays out the principle of abrogation:
2:106. Whatever a Verse (revelation) do We {Allah} abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allah is able to do all things?
It seems that 2:106 was revealed in response to skepticism directed at Muhammad that Allah’s revelations were not entirely consistent over time. Muhammad’s rebuttal was that “Allah is able to do all things” — even change his mind. To confuse matters further, though the Quran was revealed to Muhammad sequentially over some twenty years’ time, it was not compiled in chronological order. When the Quran was finally collated into book form under Caliph Uthman, the suras were ordered from longest to shortest with no connection whatever to the order in which they were revealed or to their thematic content. In order to find out what the Quran says on a given topic, it is necessary to examine the other Islamic sources that give clues as to when in Muhammad’s lifetime the revelations occurred. Upon such examination, one discovers that the Meccan suras, revealed at a time when the Muslims were vulnerable, are generally benign; the later Medinan suras, revealed after Muhammad had made himself the head of an army, are bellicose.
Let us take, for example, 50:45 and Sura 109, both revealed in Mecca:
50:45. We know of best what they say; and you (O Muhammad) are not a tyrant over them (to force them to Belief). But warn by the Qur’an, him who fears My Threat.
109:1. Say (O Muhammad to these Mushrikun and Kafirun): “O Al-Kafirun (disbelievers in Allah, in His Oneness, in His Angels, in His Books, in His Messengers, in the Day of Resurrection, and in Al-Qadar {divine foreordainment and sustaining of all things}, etc.)!
109:2. “I worship not that which you worship,
109:3. “Nor will you worship that which I worship.
109:4. “And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping.
109:5. “Nor will you worship that which I worship.
109:6. “To you be your religion, and to me my religion (Islamic Monotheism).”
Then there is this passage revealed just after the Muslims reached Medina and were still vulnerable:
2:256. There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Taghut {idolatry} and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.
In contrast, take 9:5, commonly referred to as the “Verse of the Sword”, revealed toward the end of Muhammad’s life:
9:5. Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun {unbelievers} wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat {the Islamic ritual prayers}), and give Zakat {alms}, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Having been revealed later in Muhammads life than 50:45, 109, and 2:256, the Verse of the Sword abrogates their peaceful injunctions in accordance with 2:106. Sura 8, revealed shortly before Sura 9, reveals a similar theme:
8:39. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.
8:67. It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war (and free them with ransom) until he had made a great slaughter (among his enemies) in the land. You desire the good of this world (i.e. the money of ransom for freeing the captives), but Allah desires (for you) the Hereafter. And Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.
9:29. Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
9:33. It is He {Allah} Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it superior over all religions even though the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) hate (it).
The Quran’s commandments to Muslims to wage war in the name of Allah against non-Muslims are unmistakable. They are, furthermore, absolutely authoritative as they were revealed late in the Prophet’s career and so cancel and replace earlier instructions to act peaceably. Without knowledge of the principle of abrogation, Westerners will continue to misread the Quran and misdiagnose Islam as a “religion of peace.”
I hope this was helpful. Really must eat! Bye!
I can at least understand that the US’s far-flung military footprint, combined with the fact that in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait we prop up non-democratic monarchies that tolerate theocratic terrorists, serves to actuate Islamic response against US interests around the world.
OF COURSE!
For the Cus-omac Anti-American/Pro-Jihadi Leftist Traitor Nutbag “Bootlicker”, and as is typcial of all Leftist Liberals, it’s ALL America’s Fault!
We have “military bases” in Islamic countries, ergo, the US is at Fault.
The people NOT at fault, of course, are “Bootlicker’s” Jihadi Idols and Allies; for killing, raping murdering, blowing up innocent people etc., IT’S THE UNITED STATES “MAKING” them do it!
Typical Nutbag Leftists; American is always wrong = Evil; everybody else is a “Victim” of the big, bad, EVIL United States and George Bush!
No personal responsibility, no need for restraint, nor common sense, when the EVIL United States and George Bush are MAKING you murder people; it’s not your fault, you’re a “victim”!
You’re a PUNK!
And an Anti-American/Pro-Jihadi, Leftist Traitor Nutbag Cus-Omac!
Ah, Dale, how authoritatively you dispute my calm and lucid recitation of facts.
I didn’t say “the US is at Fault”. Merely pointing out that strategically, it pays to listen to what your opponent says. Your problem: you can’t listen.
Do yourself a favor:
Call the VA. Make an appointment. Tell them you need to get back on your meds. It could help.
Sigh…..
Oooo….kay………….now……..
S…….l……..o………..w…………l………….y now. …..
EngRish 101 for the Metally impaired little Cus-omac Anti-American-Pro-Jihadi-Traitor-Leftist-Nutbag….
From his OWN words, above:
“I can at least understand that the US’s far-flung military footprint, combined with the fact that in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait we prop up non-democratic monarchies that tolerate theocratic terrorists, …….
EQUALS …..
………..serves to actuate Islamic response against US interests around the world.
That is plain, unadulterated Anti-American-Pro-Jihadi, Leftist Traitor Nutbag-Speak for: America is EVIL, America it at FAULT; we get attacked by Al Qaeda (Bootlicker’s fellow Anti-American Allies and Idols) because we EARN it and DESERVE it and Bring it on ourselves, because of our big, bad, Military Bases!
That’s EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAID, and EXACTLY WHAT YOU MEAN!
AGAIN, you’ve LIED, by Denying it Cus-Omac, AGAIN, I’ve PROVED you a liar, and AGAIN, I’ve CRUSHED YOU!
CASE CLOSED!
Dale – you may be the stupidest being on the planet:
I didn’t say we earn it; I didn’t say we deserve it, moron. What I said was I understand why US military installations in Islamic countries trigger a violent response from persons stupid and superstitious enough to believe in any mythical religious system (including but not limited to Islam and Christianity).
I didn’t say we earn it; I didn’t say we deserve it, moron. What I said was I understand why US military installations in Islamic countries trigger a violent response from persons stupid and superstitious enough to believe in any mythical religious system (including but not limited to Islam and Christianity).
Left by Soothsayer on October 11th, 2007
Sigh………
Sigh…………………….
O.K.A.Y!
ONE…..MORE………TIME!
Let’s start with the indisputable, unalterable, FACTS in this case:
a) You are a LIAR!
I PROVE that everytime you post something; this is NOT in disupte!
b) You are Anti-American!
FACT!
c) You are Pro-Jihadi!
FACT!
d) You are a Leftist!
FACT!
e) You are a Nutbag!
FACT!
f) You are a TRAITOR!
FACT; proven every time you post!
g) You are a Daily Cus-Omac Regurgiator of Anti-Ameican/Pro-Jihadi Talking Points!
FACT; I also prove that every time you post!
So, ALL of the above, are FACTS; you’ve never disputed them, and you CANNOT Dispute them; just like the Sun will come up tomorrow, and the Moon will come out tomorrow night; these are the FACTS!
Now, let’s move on to the other FACTS:
Here’s your quote:
“I can at least understand that the US’s far-flung military footprint, combined with the fact that in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait we prop up non-democratic monarchies that tolerate theocratic terrorists, serves to actuate Islamic response against US interests around the world.”
So, ONCE AGAIN; because of who, and WHAT you are (see above), the fact that you ARE Anti-American; the fact that you ARE Pro-Jihadi, the fact that you ARE a Traitor; your implication is CLEAR, because of your Traitorous beliefs and your Leftist Nutbag orientation: the US DESERVES to be attacked by Jihadis (YOUR ALLIES), because they have military bases overseas; we deserve it, and we earn it, because we have them there!
THAT is a FACT, that is the linkage you made, the is the implication you meant, that is a talking point that is a common meme among your Anti-American, Pro-Jihadi, Leftist, Nutbag, Traitor, Cus-Omac ilk!
That is ALSO A FACT!
ERGO; I was correct the first time, and once AGAIN, you are a Liar and a Traitor, and you only CONTINUE to confirm it, as you post more and more!
This is ALSO an indisputable FACT!
I really don’t know why you continue to try and deny it?
It’s pathetic to attempt to keep up the charade!