Sep 10 2009
Who Won The Debate On Obamacare Last Night?
As we wake up this morning after President Obama’s last ditch effort to salvage his health care overhaul initiative, we have three entities arising as figureheads of the debate. The first is, of course, President Obama and his liberal DC congressional leaders. The second is the GOP and their very concise and respectable response (one of the best I have seen in years). The surprise third player in this political drama is Rep Joe Wilson – who just couldn’t take the waves of spin coming from the bully pulpit anymore and had a human reaction akin to vomiting.
So who won last night?
(1) President Obama
(2) The GOP per their response
(3) Joe Wilson who almost caused a Town Hall to break out in the People’s House.
My pick is Joe Wilson, who voiced the complete frustration with the BS coming out of DC these days. The networks and Democrats are elevating him to equal status (just as the President was able to elevate Governor Palin and her comments to be his equal, his opponent on message control). Joe Wilson’s spontaneous outburst probably reflected the sentiments of a majority of Americans, who no doubt were having outbursts of their own at the their TV sets.
If Wilson wins the debate by connecting the strongest with America, then the Dems better learn some deep humility and start listening if they wish to survive politically.
Joe Wilson gets a tiny donation. It takes a lot to get through the Silence of MSM.
I have to say, AJ, that you surprised me on this post. I expected you to give Wilson a hard time. It is, afterall, still about respectuful debate. But, I am kind of, sort of, with you on this one. I knew it was not the proper place for Wilson’s emotional outburst. However, I think the American people will give him a pass (where they normally would not) because in many ways we all feel the same.
I am more confused after Obama’s speech than before. Obama didn’t put forth a new plan. He only talked about his dream of what a plan would include. Then he said if we don’t pass the current Dem plan people will die. Huh? Did he really look into the teleprompter’s eyes and say that to the American people? It’s the same plan; but, he reads a fluffy speech, and somehow we are supposed to think differently about the bill?
Teleprompter’s eyes? LOL. I heard one of the town haller’s say that on Fox and Friends this morning.
Politico takes the other side of the road and says that Wilson’s outburst is a rallying cry for the Democrats. Many Democrats are thinking this way today from what I have been reading.
However, this is about “the people” and an extension of the movement around the “town halls”. So, I think AJ is right on his analysis. We will see.
Wilson’s Rallying Cry
http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=A20D6C6A-18FE-70B2-A8E06E1CCE4C1C4F
We know Pres. Obama lied through his teeth last night and he disrespected the office of the president and and the peoples house with the BS he spewed, but that did not give Rep. Wilson the right in doing the same. The diffrence between our President and Rep. Wilson is that Congressman at least took the high road and apologized even though he knew he was right.
Rep Boehner was just on the House floor reading the portion of the bill that allows illegal aliens to have health care coverage.
What will happen if Americans read the bill, or hear enough, to conclude that the President lied? There will be hell to pay.
Illegal Immigrants and HR 3200: Estimate of Potential Costs to Taxpayers
http://www.cis.org/IllegalsAndHealthCareHR3200
Based on our analysis of Census Bureau data, we estimate that there are 6.6 million uninsured illegal immigrants in the United States who could be covered by the new health care reform bill (HR 3200). Even though HR 3200 states that illegal immigrants are not eligible for the proposed taxpayer-funded affordable premium credits, there is nothing in the bill to enforce this. An amendment was defeated in committee that would have required the use of the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) program, used by almost all other means-tested programs of this kind.
Among the findings:
•If all uninsured illegal immigrants with incomes below 400 percent of poverty received the proposed credits, the estimated cost to the federal government would be $30.5 billion annually.
Find the tape its out there… minutes before Wilson Pinnochio called Rush , palin and citizens liars, His words, if Wilson has to apologize for telling the Truth then Pinnochio has to apologize for lyin and calling others liars.
Joe Wilson just got the 25.00 the RNC will never get from me. Some is goin to Palin also. The RNC has this thing in the bag by the work of the American Citizen and they are lining up in a circular firing squad with Joe Wilson in the middle.
Just to get TV time and be loved by the liberals trying to destroy this country a bunch of despicable panderers and whimps!
Anyone who badmouths Joe Wilson for callin the Liar in Chief a Liar should be voted out.
The RNC snatching defeat from the jaws iof victory .Idiots! Despicable idiots and cowards!
This is exactly what got Obama elected!
Failing to call a spade a spade trying to pander to the leftist media in hopes they throw you a bone as Pinnochio did that fool McCain!
Did ya see the grin and thumbs up when the Liar in Chief praised McCain and basically patted the idiot on the head and told him good boy John I know you’ll help me ruin the country!
Noted “Moderate” Arlen Specter is today calling for Rep. Wilson to be censured by the House.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0909/Specter_wants_Wilson_censured.html?showall
Of course, Charley Rangel’s thievery isn’t worthy of notice.
All this talk about Congressman Wilson’s Democratic opponent getting all these donations. I just tried going to Wilson’s website and could not get on. Too much traffic. You won’t hear that from the MSM. http://joewilson.house.gov/ This is the site.
I see Sarah Palin responded to the speech which was a load of Alinski and Chicago Thug Tactics more in tune with Rahm Emmanuel giving it.
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2009/09/10/sarah-palin-responds-presidents-healthcare-address
Vice President Joe Biden says a Republican congressman’s outburst “you lie” demeaned the institution.”
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gTWB1M9VPOte4M77spW7Z62NsGyQD9AKE4Q02
Oh, really???
Biden: Bush Compulsive Liar
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=33813§ionid=3510203
How soon they forget.
Now, one could say that there is a difference between tone you can use “within the walls” of the Institution vs when you are on the street or in front of the camera on a news show. But, is that really so? When you hold that position…..you are the walls. You represent the Institution.
Obama’s Lies Matter, Too
The president pushes back against health care misinformation, then spreads a bunch of his own.
http://reason.com/news/show/135976.html
Also,
Rasmussen, prior to Obama’s speech
Support for Obamacare – 43%
Opposition to Obamacare – 53%
Rasmussen, after Obama’s speech
Support for Obamacare -44%
Opposition to Obamacare – 53%
Not exactly a game changer.
Pelosi halts effort to sanction Wilson over ‘You lie!’ outburst
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/58115-dems-may-move-to-censure-wilson
That’s a shock. Maybe she is worried about all the “Bush Lied” Dem comments coming back to haunt them.
Tragically, Wilson played the role of spineless “republican” all the way by apologizing to the White House for the unpardonable sin of telling the truth. Led by Juan McCain, fellow limp-wristed republicans attacked, chided and berated Wilson throughout the evening and and into this morning. And these useful idiots wonder why conservative voters don’t bother to go to the polls. Wilson should have stood his ground and told republican party “leaders” precisely where to go, upon receipt of their demands that he apologize. For those of the McCain ilk, he should have provided directions.
I’m sorry for the lack of posts. I have been reading a lot of polls recently and it has taken a week to get my eyeballs back in their sockets. And just when my sight returns Frogg1 posts the Rasmussen polls.
As I have posted before, passing HR 3200 out of committee was a huge political disaster. The President has to support the bill while at the same time contradicting many of its provisions. It is a hard job to do. As the Rasmussen poll suggests, he is between a rock and a hard place. Because without the public option, i.e. socialized health care, Democratic support falls like a rock. Obama has to obfuscate the whole issue in order to get anything passed. President Clinton was a much better liar.
The 4 year delay or the trigger are perfect examples. If we need to get it done yesterday why can we wait four years or wait until the triggers are broken. The only way out for President Obama is to repudiate HR 3200 and start over with the President sending his own 1,000 page bill to Congress.
AJ,
So let me get this straight. You believe that it is not only okay, but commendable, to scream “liar” at anyone who makes a claim or takes a policy position you don’t believe. It is even appropriate in a Presidential address to Congress, where this type of outburst and disrespect has NEVER previously occured or been tolerated. Okay, I guess two can play that game.
AJ – you are a LIAR.
Every time you claim that we have the best health care system in the world, you lie. We have by far the highest health care costs in the industrialized world (17% GDP), the highest percentage of uninsured in the industrialized world (roughly 15% – every other country provides some form of universal health care), and consistently rank in the 20s to 30s worldwide on key health care statistic (infant mortality, life expentancy, preventable diseases, etc.). The percentage of American companies that reduce or stop offering health care coverage for employees increases every year due to rising costs. Things get worse every year, which is why almost everyone (including Republicans) recognize some type of health care reform is necessary.
Every time you compare “Obamacare” to the UK system, you lie. You know that the UK provides a single-payer system that is nothing like what is being proposed here, and yet you lie and pretend it is the same. You know that the US performs worse than the UK on life expectancy, infant mortality and preveantable diseases, and yet you lie and pretend the 3 or 4 anecdotal stories of UK citizens (in a country of approximately 61 million) somehow proves their system is a failure.
Every time you claim that you want to protect Medicare, you lie. You have repeatedly said that you are against government run health care programs, especially if they increase the deficit. Medicare is a government run program that is the largest financial burden on this country. Except for the convenience of using this line for the health care debate, you would happily get rid of Medicare.
Every time you claim to care about the uninsured, you lie. Early on in this debate you made your real motive apparent – your family has health care coverage so who cares about the rest of Americans. You pretend that Americans inability to get insurance is solely due to their laziness or inability to work hard, ignoring those that have pre-existing conditions or the millions of uninsured American children that were simply born into their circumstances. You got yours, so screw the rest of them. How American of you.
You lie every day on this post. So I guess I’ll just start calling you a liar every day because apparently that is now acceptable to you.
Oops, I almost forgot another big lie.
Every time you pretend to care about the deficit when it comes to paying for health care reform, you lie. Reagan and Bush Jr., your presidential heros, increased our deficit far more than any other president since the end of the Great Depression. http://zfacts.com/p/318.html You were thrilled about spending more than a trillion dollars on the Iraq war and Bush’s tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, which individually cost more than even the most conservative estimates of the costs for health care reform, without any plan for paying for these drains on our budget. You only care about deficits when it involves a proposal you don’t agree with – and then you lie and pretend that you are really concerned about the economic welfare of the country and your children’s future.
Way to go Joe. One voice speaking for millions.
As to decorum, I am not versed on Miss Manners Rules of Etiquette for a whorehouse but this is the widespread view of Americans toward our once revered institutions of Congress and the POTUS.
And this is what the Democrats deserve after their traitorous behavior the past 8 years (at least).
Long live Freedom of Speech and Expression.
Conman,
You are outta here.
Obama: ‘If you misrepresent what’s in the plan, we will call you out’
Joe Wilson (R-SC) returns the favor … calls out Obama
Democrats get their collective “tit in a ringerâ€
The faux outrage …
JOE WATKINS (radio host and CNN substitute host): Did you hear it? Certainly not the polite protocol usually practiced when a president speaks to Congress. If a Democrat one day delivers a State of the Union address, I hope the Republicans won’t lower themselves to such a disrespectful level. I hope last night’s behavior by a few lawmakers doesn’t set a new precedent, that both parties can agree to remain civil, even when voicing disagreements.[…] PAUL BEGALA (CNN host): Let me correct your history — 1993, I was with President Bill Clinton in that House chamber when he addressed a joint session of Congress. And Republicans heckled him when he cited Congressional Budget Office statistics about the deficit. [CNN, Crossfire, 2/3/05]