Sep 16 2009
An Early I Told You So
I have been starting to raise the alarm bells that the ‘true conservatives’ where back at their same old bag of dumb tricks, pissing off natural political allies, alienating centrists and moderates, and in essence keeping them out of power and the liberals in power.
Susan Estrich pens an example of what I tried to say about Beck and others, about how they were more a negative than a positive. That these Pyrrhic victories were making it impossible for centrist dems and independents to feel comfortable in another conservative alliance:
Getting rid of Van Jones, the co-founder of one of the groups now organizing the boycotts, is not going to slow the movement. Quite the contrary. It may strengthen the cause. When folks start telling someone who has been a contributor at Fox for 10 years (me) to cut out the Claritin, you know it’s spreading.
The same day, I found myself sitting with a group of people who share my strong commitment to the security of the state of Israel. To a one, they supported Hillary or McCain. To a one, they have “issues” with President Obama: These folks are worried about the economy and the deficit, worried about terrorism around the world and, yes, deeply worried about what they see as ambivalence from this administration to the threats faced by Israel. But — and this is my point — despite all of that, every one of these people is now an angry Obama supporter. Not just an Obama supporter, but an angry one.
The right may be mad as hell, but I’ve got news for Congressman Joe Wilson and his know-nothing cronies: You have turned your natural allies, people who might have agreed with you on properly raised criticisms, who might have agreed with you on substance, into your enemies.
Not critics, enemies.
There have been others, like Charles Johnson of LGF, who raised the warning bells that well meaning and nice people (e.g., Jim Hoft of Gateway Pundit) were being extremely counter productive in their constant, over-the-top use of Hitler and Nazi imagery when discussing our young, inexperienced and probably well intentioned president.
When Obama starts rounding up people and sending them to concentration camps, then you can use the Nazi connections. Until then you are equating petty theft with mass murder, and it does no one any good to do so. It makes the right looks stupid, it makes Obama look like a victim (instead of inept), and it makes the Obama voters who are uneasy with the Obama’s performance cringe at changing their alliances.
As usual, the far right is ready, willing and able to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. They are coming on too hot, too haughty, too arrogant. Instead of a respectful “things are not going right, let’s try and fix it” they are just gleefully slinging mud and denigrating everyone.
I seriously doubt everyone in ACORN is evil and trying to break the law. We need to stop painting each other with broad strokes from occasional miscreant and malcontent. Estridge should not have called Rep Joe Wilson a racist simply because he could not take any more of President Obama’s BS. Wilson made a mistake and offered his apologies immediately and personally.
Get over it. But on the flip side, the far right has exaggerated the intentions and heart of many people in the Obama White House who sincerely believed their flawed beliefs. The political industrial complex is angry, because as a whole they are abysmal failures. That includes Estrideg, Obama and Wilson. It does not include President Bush, who kept his promise and kept it classy his entire 8 years, no matter the muck thrown at him.
I also condemn the established and those ‘up and coming’ pundits who think crass is kewl, and can fill in for thoughtful ideas. Begala and Glenn Greenwald are poison to America’s Democracy. Sadly, so is Pat Buchannan. I am waiting to see if the saintly side of Jim Hoft will win out over the demagogue who comes out when he blogs. I see more and more of the right falling into the Begala/Greenwald gutter mode. It is what killed the GOP and conservatism.
President Obama can beat back any hot headed, insulting argument they way President Bush did, by simply being calm and taking the high rode. The only way to push Obama is to convince sufficient numbers of his supporters to oppose him and align with the opposition. Insults will not help this happen, or make it happen.
Update: But this is not a premature “I told you so”, according to this news:
Realignment is dead. President Barack Obama and Democrats blew it.
Dealignment has arrived. Republicans blew it, and are now so repellent that Americans increasingly reject both political parties.
In the latest Washington Post/ABC poll, 43 percent of voters labeled themselves independents.
DC is not the shining city on the hill, that is America. It is now the swamp which needs cleaning out.
It’s good to clean out the swamp, on both right and the left. Those who need cleaning out are ever so evident.
I will say it again, Mr. Obama, tone it down.
http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2009/09/column-a-winning-formula-for-the-gop.html
A conservative message with a moderate voice. I would add that the GOP needs a center-right leader who has the trust of the right. That trust will diffuse the attacks from the far-right that this leader is not a “true” conservative. When the attacks of the far-right fail, they will have a choice, either support the center-right leader or form a fringe party.
Isn’t it remarkable how CONCERNED leftists like Estrich get for conservatives as soon as we break away from the limp-wristed McCain-type sell outs who have done so much to doom the nation and the American people over the years! Thanks for worrying about us Susan, but the Townhalls, the true response of the American people to Joe Wilson and trends in 2010 election prophecy tell me that, as usual, leftists only give “tone down the rhetoric” advice when conservatives are on the right track. That is, when we expose the left and regain the support of actual Americans across the nation by standing up for who we are…conservatives and Americans.
What we need is another uniter not a divider. That is why Reagan did so well. He believed in us. Obama is trying to be a uniter but with a very important difference. He believes that the government should have more control over things. If we all simply unite under government control over our lives, then we would all be happier seems to be his meme.
Government is the problem, not the solution. Our economic troubles today were caused by government manipulation of financial markets and more government manipulation isn’t going to fix it.
Obama complains that he doesn’t want to see the same people who caused the problem trying to fix the problem. Fine, then get government OUT of the situation.
The major problem with the Republicans right now is their marketing strategy. I hear a lot of criticism of the Democrats but little in the way of alternative vision. Listen to Limbaugh, Levin, Hannity, etc. and all you hear is a sound bite of Obama and one of the minions and 15 minutes of criticism of what was said. Rarely do you hear a sound bite of someone offering an alternative vision and 15 minutes of expanding on that.
It is bad marketing. You can have a marketing campaign based solely on why your competition sucks and it might drive customers from them but it isn’t going to drive many TO you. So you have people abandoning the Democrats but they aren’t being given a reason to join the Republicans. “The other party sucks worse than we do” isn’t an effective strategy. You win people not by showing how the others are worse, but by showing how you are better.
The Republicans offered an alternative House Resolution for health care. How many people have read it or even know it exists? Why aren’t Republicans on the air every day pitching their plan instead of criticizing the Democrat plan? In reality there needs to be a bit of both angles but there still needs to be leadership.
The Republicans are offering nothing except “Democrats suck”. “Republicans are great because we aren’t Democrats” doesn’t work. If there were only two choices and a person had to be either a Democrat or a Republican, maybe that could work. But people have a choice of being aligned with neither. The idiocy of the Democrats and the lack of vision by the Republicans is driving more people to that third choice.
The difference between Reagan and Obama, Reagan inspired us, lifted us up, always speaking to our higher self as a nation. Obama lectures and tells us why we need to be eliminated, because we have been naughty and he will not let it stand.
The problem, Crosspatch, is that so far there is no third choice. If there was one, I’d like to know what it is. Oh, I can think of one in theory. But I don’t know of one in reality.
“Why aren’t Republicans on the air every day pitching their plan?”
Because the mainstream media won’t *Put* them on the air. You can’t fight a blackout. Pelosi won’t even let any House republicans in on any of the negotiations, and in the Senate it seems as though Grassley, Enzi, and Snowe are the only 3 allowed to have any input at all. (and now they’ve walked out) Personally I think Boehner is doing about as good a job as can be done under the circumstances.
The Democrats *want* to have a competing plan to attack – that’s the only political strategy they’re comfortable with. Axelrod never imagined not having anything concrete to fight against, and now he and Obama are stuck trying to govern on their own without any help from a convenient punching bag that they can demonize. They don’t know how to do it, which is why they are floundering.
This is probably the key – the entire health care reform concept is unworkable. Anyone who comes out with a specific platform is going to make himself an instant target for all the millions of people that don’t benefit under the plan, which is what Max Baucus is finding out as we speak. Obama overpromised from the begining – he should have been out there telling everyone that there will have to be a lot of sacrifice for this to work, but he hasn’t. So why should anyone else fall on their sword and come up with a hard but realistic plan which will (which HAS to) disapoint and anger a whole lot of people, especially when it can’t be passed anyway? The Democrats in 2005 during the Social Security debate showed that a dedicated opposition can take down an administration without ever once offering anything like a good plan on their own – and the beauty is that in the short term, that strategy is virtually risk free.
Someone has to fall on their sword and be honest with the American people, and accept being hated because of it. Obama created the perception problem, Obama has the job, let Obama be the one to take the hit.
And he will – either straight up by accepting his mistakes openly and honestly, are the hard way by trying to keep things going while this administration crashes in ruins around him.
Once this administration has crashed and burned, then it will be time to start talking about ways out of the abyss. But we’re not there yet.
“Because the mainstream media won’t *Put* them on the air. You can’t fight a blackout. ”
Conservative talk radio won’t even put them on the air. Listen to one of the talk shows. All you hear is a series of
Sound Bite
Criticism of sound bite
Sound Bite
Criticism of sound bite
…..(repeat for a couple of hours).
The one exception to that was Hugh Hewitt and the radio station that carried his show in my area changed format from talk to business. Hewitt is great to listen to as he DOES get people on that go in depth into alternatives yet he also does his share of sound bite criticism.
“Axelrod never imagined not having anything concrete to fight against, and now he and Obama are stuck trying to govern on their own without any help from a convenient punching bag that they can demonize.”
I agree with that to a large extent. On some things the DNC is best served by shutting up and letting the Democrats talk themselves deeper into the hole they have dug themselves. But there is an alternative outlet through blogs and talk radio that isn’t being utilized. Maybe blogs should get guest posts from Republican politicians on forward-looking ideas for where we should be headed or in somehow uniting us as a nation.
“Someone has to fall on their sword and be honest with the American people, and accept being hated because of it.”
Kind of a good role for Palin or someone else not running for office but has a lot of people’s ears.
Maybe a Pete DuPont.
Given the thread title, here’s an “I told you so” that I was trying to get people to pay attention to in the early spring, when the auto bailout plan was being hatched:
Fiat CEO: Chrysler worse than we thought
http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/16/autos/fiat_chrysler/index.htm?cnn=yes
Get ready for it – Fiat is going to shut down most of the Chrysler factories that Obama thought were going to be saved, and all of the money that the government has pumped into that sad outfit will be lost. (actually, already IS lost) Probably within 3 or 4 years the Chrysler name will only exist on the backs of rebranded Fiats shipped in from Italy.
How many billion dollars did we pay for that wonderful result again? Reminder: this government gave Fiat title to Chrysler for NO MONEY DOWN. Who would have predicted it could go bad so quickly???
Who indeed.
AJ, too many *inside* ACORN are claiming they are corrupt. In fact, a guest today on Fox that was an ACORN volunteer listed several things he had personally seen that were corrupt. He was not shocked by the videos. What about the funeral home in New Orleans where over 200 entities claim as their address? And not to mention, the top guy that stole $2 millio, correct? ( which was apparently paid back by an unnamed source who I think we all know).
Lots of smoke here. I lived in NOLA and was involved in the city… and I know these types…
But the real question is, why are MY tax dollars going to this group to begin with?? A group that “registers” democrats to vote. It’s absurd.
Susan Estrich is part of the center right alliance? I believe she was a Hillary supporter and voted for Obama. The center right doesn’t need to listen to her and neither does Glenn Beck.
And, as to the group she mentioned that supports Israel and has concerns about the economy…..
if they are going to change their mind because a man said “you lied” to the President, and quickly apologized, and not one single Republican on the Hill said what he did was right….
then what’s wrong with them?
Are the same people who wanted to stand with the Democrats as little as a year ago…..until they called President Bush a liar?
And, what am I supposed to think about this:
“Bill Clinton lied about his mistake. But George Bush is doing something even worse. He’s robbing every American to pay the price for his.”
-Susan EStrich-
Did she call Bush a liar?
This is a game, AJ…..and you seem to buying into it.
Let’s all be civil. We all agree Joe Wilson went overboard. He apologized. Has Susan Estrich?
Apparently there are a lot more ACORN videos still in the can. The latest one which is, according to the article I just linked to, supposed to come out around 9pm Eastern will apparently not be the standard “hooker” angle. And they say they have a lot more of them.
I think some people (wink wink, nudge nudge) are scared to death to say anything positive about the Acorn story because they think it might make Glenn Beck look good – Even though the Acorn expose’s are the most incredible and ground changing pieces of investigative journalism done in the last 30 years. Hannah Giles and James O’Keefe are the new Bernstein and Woodward. Only they don’t work for any newspaper, they publish their work on Andy Breitbarts blog.
Which leads to the even more interesting part of this show: this episode is marking the rise of the ‘net as the new medium and the death of the old media. The major outlets are attempting to black out a story, and yet they are having *no* *effect* on it at all – it just keeps growing. Well, they are having an effect – people, left and right, are learning that if you want to keep up with breaking news, you’ve got to watch the net, you can’t bother waiting a week or two for the newspapers and the nightly news reports to catch up with what’s already happened. The more they try to manage the news, the more they destroy themselves, which means the tipping point has already been reached and passed.
We’re watching the Gotterdammerung of the New York Times, and of the entire world view that name represents.
Btw, if you haven’t seen it, Jon Stewart did an absolutely *hilarious* piece on this – here’s a link.
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/09/16/jon-stewart-to-media-on-acorn-where-the-hell-were-you/
What Stewart says applies just as well to anyone who thinks that this story can be buried – it’s just going to keep growing. And I’ve got to thank Stewart – thanks to him my 20 year old daughter who pays no attention to politics at all but who with her friends watches the Daily show every night now knows that Acorn is hopelessly corrupt and the old media are absolutely useless. And that somehow this is tied in with Obama in not a good way.
Jon Stewart’s done more with that 6 minute broadcast to get through to her segment of the population than an encyclopedia set of reasonable arguments from me could ever have done. Thanks, Jon!!!
And that’s why this entire issue is like an anchor tied to Obama’s popularity. He needs to stop the bleeding, but I don’t think he has a clue as to what to do, since he’s never faced a situation like this before. Whoops, there’s that experience thing coming back up.
5 talkshows on Sunday for Obama. Think he can smoothtalk his way out of this one? Hey, 268th time is a charm, right?
Sorry about my previous rant. I was blowing steam….and it didn’t come out right (including the example I gave). Estirich was pointing out Bush’s “mistake”; not calling him a liar. But, I listen to Fox…..and although Susan Estrich is one of the Dems I lke and respect, and who is usually very reasonable….she, herself has said some inappropriate things at times out of anger.
My point is that no one is perfect. And, you should look at thier whole record.
My other point is…..columnists, talk radio, tv, etc are not the political party on either side. They are irrelevant. I don’t think Beck has much effect. Joe Wilson, however, was an elected Republican. He does matter. No one defended his outburst. So why would the people Estrich was alligned with be so ready to sacrafice Israel and other cuases they believed in? And, did it bother them when one of their own announced that Joe Wilson will cause people to come out in white hoods again on the floor of the house? Will they disassociate with “those people” also?
If Joe Wilson refused to apologize to Obama, didn’t think he did anything wrong, and stood by his inappropriate actions — then I would see Susan Estrich’s point.
12% Say Most Opponents of Obama Health Care Plan Are Racist
Twelve percent (12%) of voters nationwide believe that most opponents of President Obama’s health care reform plan are racist. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 67% of voters disagree, and 21% are not sure.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/12_say_most_opponents_of_obama_health_care_plan_are_racist
——————–
And, even though you don’t like Beck, I can’t help but say I like what he had to say about the MSM and this poll. He asked, “can we stop calling the Main Stream Media ‘Mainstream'” now? He said they were part of the “fringe” 12% who think the tea party people/or opponents of Obama’s policies are racists. Brilliant point.
Can we call them the “Fringe Stream Media”???????
Susan Estrich is not a moderate. She LOOKS like a moderate compared to the most liberal president we have ever had in the White House, formerly the most liberal senator. Hillary Clinton’s favorite was Saul Alinsky, let’s not forget.
And I’d like to add that many well educated people I know (Yale grads for ex.) LOVE Glenn Beck.
One question of clarification: Is it true that McCarthy was correct about the communists during the 50’s? I seem to remember something about soviet files that were opened after the cold war was over….I have heard this to be right but would like to know for sure….
The “expose” of ACORN has done an incredible amount of damage to mainstream Republicans. The GOP needs to disavow itself of Faux News and all trappings of “social conservatism”. Here’s the skinny — Reagan is dead and so is his movement. Embrace a progressive government or face the same extinction as the dinosaurs.
Tinian, are you out of your MIND?
You have a group that has been found guilty of voter fraud in several states that collects cash from business by shakedown tactics and when someone further exposes their corruption it harms the one doing the exposing?
But it wasn’t “the republicans” that did this exposing, it was a private citizen.
You are either incredibly dense or have been breathing your own exhaust for so long that your brain has switched off.
Oh, and Fox generally gets five times as many viewers in some time slots as MSNBC. have a look at the ratings
In some slots Fox beats MSNBC, CNN, and CNN-HLN combined.
CP: you’re too kind. Tinians don’t breathe their own exhaust, they drive electric cars.
Anyway, a quick analysis of the 2010 races shows a chance of Republicans in the following states:
Arkansas
California
Colorado
Connecticut
Delaware
Illinois
Nevada
New York
North Dakota
Pennsylvania
Washington
Wisconsin
They will have to run some center-right or centrist candidates like Pataki but if the economy is bad in 2010, who knows.
Don’t look now but it appears that our moron-in-chief is sending a delegation to Europe to cancel missile defense.