Nov 04 2009
GOP Way Forward
NY-23 illustrated an interesting decision path for the GOP. There are two paths available, and the decision on which path to take is up to the far right ‘true’ conservatives who spout such bonding terms as RINO.
If the far right can respectfully align with the centrists, the first path forward was illustrated in VA and NJ. A coalition of a center to far right can easily win big as centrists and ‘true’ conservatives come together to oppose the liberal democrats.
But if the far right is still stuck on purity and want to start a 3rd party then we have the second path. There are plenty of left of center democrats and independents who are fed up with the hyper partisan fringe wars. One party will disintegrate into two camps – the fringe and the centrists. Whichever party does break up will be perfectly positioned to beat both fringes.
Liberals are the smallest political group in America. If they take over the Democrat Party they will drop down to 20% of the vote in most areas. If the far right goes 3rd party they will drop down to 20% of the vote in most areas. That leaves 60% of the voters in the center for a center right GOP to sweep elections. Again, you can see this in the voting trends where centrists went to the GOP who ran as moderates and not fire breathing conservatives (and yes, I still count myself as a conservative).
It is all up to the Hannity wing of the conservative movement. They either work within a broad coalition and participate in leading this nation or they become pure and marginal. It is their call, the voters have made it clear which way they prefer to go.
Update: Michael Barone breaks down the advantage of a broad centrist to far right coalition in reviewing the numbers. McDonnell and the other candidates in VA ran as small government conservatives, shunning the social conservative image. And it worked with beyond expectations with historic landslides and a broad political realignment. I know which path I prefer, but as a centrist conservative I must admit either path is a path out of the current mess. I suspect a lot of the Tea Partiers are with me in that they want to throw the hyper partisans out.
Update: Another good analysis of why it is the centrists that control the destiny of any party and this country. Anyone still trying to purge the centrists from their party should be put on a political suicide watch.
53 Responses to “GOP Way Forward”
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AJ, I think you are too hard on conservatives. You are beating us up for not wanting a candidate like Dede. She was left of the Dem Owens, she has been on record for everything Obama wants. How would a vote for her done one thing for us? Instead of giving people like her the moderate label, why don’t you call her for the liberal she is. The conservatives like myself are not into purity and extremism, I just know a Democrat when I see one, a liberal one at that. Would you have wanted her to win and then run for re-election in 2010? It would help to keep in mind the unique circumstances of that particular race.
I love your writings and think you are brilliant on many issues, I just feel you are being way too hard on the people like myself who call ourselves conservatives. Why don’t you go after the liberals in GOP clothing? BTW, as a resident of Virginia I very happily cast my ballot for our wonderful ticket here.
Penguin,
I am a conservative, not just a far right conservative. I would never assume my views should be shared by all.
Dede was a liberal – no two ways about it. But the arrogance and insults that came with her withdrawal put off the voters of NY-23. Palin had it right when she asked the conservatives to come together. But that was beyond the ‘true’ conservatives.
They blew it in the same way they got dumped in 2006 and 2008. Think about it. To be so repulsed you vote in a Democrat? My only mistake in the 2006 and 2008 election predictions is I underestimated the repulsion of the electorate to the far right. I was too Pollyannish. I assumed centrists could weather the denigrating yapping of the far right.
I have learned my lesson. The centrists really don’t like the far right. To win you have to understand your strengths and weaknesses. I don’t want the liberals to win anymore. Tough love.
I believe your analysis on NY-23 is wrong. The message is that the National Republican Party can’t pick the candidate they want to represent the GOP ticket. The representatives are there to represent the district. The people in the district have the right to choose who will represent them.
In a cleared field, Owens (D) might still have prevailed, but by promoting DeDe (R) who was further left than Owens (D) the party was making the locals choose between a caucus vote that would vote with the Obama administration, or against their caucus and with the (D) caucus, but against most of Obama’s proposals. Many people speculated that DeDe intended to change parties in DC anyway.
It was the national party that forced the ticket split by not giving the local Republicans the option of choosing their own candidate.
NewEnglandDevil,
First off, the national GOP did not pick the candidate. I said many times it was a dumb move by the local GOP.
When the national leaders tried to come in and save the situation, a bunch of arrogant mouths on the far right blew by repeating their name calling.
Dede was liberal – no two ways about it. But she was not as toxic as the far right! Check the vote count.
Didn’t mention…. the DeDe absentee vote and that portion of the populace that voted (R) b/c they didn’t think the (C) had a chance (3rd parties almost always lose) would probably have tipped the balance to Hoffman in a field consisting solely of Owens (D) and Hoffman (R). It was the national party that split the ticket, not the “far right”.
Everything I’ve read shows that it was State level GOP and national GOP that chose DeDe – including the fact that national GOP PR firms were running her ad campaigns (poorly). This was not the local GOP choice. She was shepherded through the system by connected State GOP for the Nat’l GOP.
Notice how he ignores the results of the Moderates in N.C. Not just yesterday election results, but those of 2006 and 2008.
Notice the arrogance of what Hoffman was up against:
1. Unions. Have grown up there, I know the power and intimidation. The Grocery Stores, from P&C Foods, to Tops, to Price Chopper: All UNION.
The State County, and most City workers: UNION
The Teachers: UNION
2. Hoffman was an independent, not a GOP Candidate. He lacked the Money and Organization of the major Parties, and got over 45% of the vote.
3. The GOP Candidate, endorsed the Dem. Candidate.
THE BIG TENT THEORY:
Now, this big-tent thing. The current leaders who cannot be named of the Republican Party have built such a big tent on the advice of the Democrats, that nobody’s in it. Let me explain this, ’cause this is another profundity, ladies and gentlemen. We’ve had all these people, all these years say, “You know, you Republicans, you’re too rock-ribbed conservative. You got too many pro-lifers. You got too many religious right people in there and the angry talk show people. You got a gotta spread out!” The Democrats, the liberals, the media, tell the Republicans, “You gotta have a bigger tent. You gotta attract independents in that party and you gotta have moderates in that party. You can’t continue to grow, you can’t continue to exist if all you are is conservatives.”
Of course, the Republicans who want to get along with those people say, “Yeah, yeah, it’s a good point.” So big tent. And we went out there, we did everything we could to attract all those people. Right? We nominated all the right people. General Powell even out there showing us how to do it by endorsing a Democrat. So we’ve got this giant big tent out there, built on the advice of Democrats in the media but nobody’s in it. General Powell left the tent. Christopher Buckley left the tent. David Brooks left the big tent. Chuck Hagel left the tent. McCain left the tent. McCain’s out there saying he wants to rebuild the Republican Party in a moderate image. Lindsey Grahamnesty left the tent. I mean, when you line up with John Kerry or whoever he lined up with on cap and trade, you don’t call yourself a Republican.
Arlen Specter left the tent. In many ways George W. Bush left the tent. Peggy Noonan left the tent. Newt Gingrich left the tent. Joe Lieberman! He was in the tent but he left. By the way, Dingy Harry’s out there saying (doing Reid impression), “Ah, don’t worry about Joe. At the end of the day Joe will be there voting for me.” Told you. So Christopher Buckley leaves, Colin Powell leaves, Chuck Hagel leaves, McCain leaves, Lindsey Grahamnesty leaves, Arlen Specter leaves, George W. Bush walked out , Noonan left, Newt left, Lieberman walked out of the tent, and a lot of real conservatives walked out of the tent, too, and said, “To hell with it!” So we got this giant big tent. Well, what the hell good is it if nobody’s inside? There’s no one inside the tent. Nature abhors a vacuum, and conservatives and independents are filling that vacuum today. So these smartest people in the room on our side, they built that tent just like the Democrats in the media told them and there’s nobody in it now.
AJ: But if the far right is still stuck on purity and want to start a 3rd party then we have the second path.
This is where your wrong. Personally, If someone is 80% with my beliefs, they get my vote. I don’t know anyone that isn’t pretty much the same.
Limbaugh will say Conservatives won in Va. and you say they are Moderates.
Anyone else from Va. that can give their opinion?
AJ: I am a conservative, not just a far right conservative.
What is Far Right?
Is it a belief in Federalism? [States Rights]
Is it a belief in the Constitution, as written?
Is it a belief in the Rule of Law?
Is it a belief in God?
Is it a belief in Individual Rights?
Is it a belief in Faith, Family, Freedom?
Is it a belief in Live, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness?
If that is the Far Right, I’m a proud member.
What’s the fuss? McDonnell and Christie are people that Rush and Hannity supported.
AJ, I don’t think you are a RINO!
Dede was truly a rino in that she would not be voting as a majority of republicans. Is it true she was thinking of switching parties way before this election? Arlen Spector was the same. He had been a democrat, for crying out loud. THAT is what bothers all of us, does it not?
I think the RINO name does not apply as you say AJ because we are all in agreement on so much here. What percentage of the right is “far right”? And how is that defined?
And AJ, I have listened to Rush almost everyday for 8 years, maybe missing 5 days per year. He is about FISCAL conservatism much more than social/religious. He hardly EVER talks about religion and in fact, has said he doesn’t like to talk about it. Wouldn’t we all agree with that?
He supported Bush often when others did not. He considers himself a personal friend of George’s.
ivehadit: What percentage of the right is “far right”? And how is that defined?
BINGO!
I think it’s defined as anyone to the right of AJ. That’s all I can figure.
ivehadit: A – Men!
Another part that I think he’s missing is that the “big tent” always involves including people who want to put more power in DC’s hands and less power in individuals’ hands.
Separate that issue from all other issues. Put the biggest tent in place at the local level-that makes sense. But the core value has to be: federalism and individual freedom. That is the foundation that you build your party structure on. Whatever you want to do at the local level – fine! Pro gay-marriage? Sure. Pro-choice? As long as it is on the local level.
For truly national issues like immigration enforcement, you get power and work out a compromise within the party that everyone can sign onto – and you propose it to the American people honestly. You will have to have some level of punishment – probably monetary. Maybe illegals will be welcome to stay but they can NEVER become citizens. You come down hard with draconian punishment and enforcement against violent illegal aliens. Non-violent criminal illegals that facilitated illegal acts (e.g. forgery, ID theft) also get tough punishment and enforcement. Regular Jose’s that, at most, gave documents to an employer to get a job (ie did not provide docs to another worker, but for themselves) get the minimalist treatment (ie monetary fine).
NewEnglandDevil: Put the biggest tent in place at the local level-that makes sense. But the core value has to be: federalism and individual freedom. That is the foundation that you build your party structure on.
A – Men!
By the way, the Big Tent Posting was from Rush Yesterday. I just thought it accurate.
Rush: The Dem base did not turn out in Va. The Rep base did. Who is the Rep Base? Conservatives.
[...] RINO Spin Masters are up early this morning explaining that Virginia was won because of the moderate. Don’t [...]
I’ll add in one more part.
I’m kinda dreaming about running for office at some point. Here’s a proposal I’d have, what do you guys think?
As quickly as possible, cut funding to all federal programs that based on the 10th amendment should be administered at the state or local level. Certain programs that have local representation (e.g. EPA) would have the personnel directly transferred to the state regulatory agency. EPA (for instance) would still have jurisdiction on air pollution, water pollution for waterways that are state boundaries or that cross state lines, Indian reservations and federal lands.
All monies collected from the populace of a state, or, all monies that are normally allocated to programs assigned to a state, minus a percentage used to cover truly federal programs, are returned to the general funds of the states.
Once the money is allocated to each state, the IRS would provide detailed data to the state indicating what the tax rates would be in that state that would make up the total funding previously sent to the gov’t from that state. Parallel to this, the IRS determines what the tax rate would be for the federal gov’t to tax STATE receipts in order to pay for federal programs.
Eliminate the federal income tax and move to a state tax. (Let the feds and the states fight it out).
Thoughts?
Rush: The highest percentage of the Vote by an independent candidate in N.Y. history. [He thinks]
He’s talkin to AJ now..
DeDe was not only still on the ballet, she was on the ballet TWICE!
Rush just mentioned…
You can see the Moderate Republican Results in N.C. here:
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/
You can here the WBT morning podcast of GOP results in N.C. here:
http://larson.wbt.com/
Got to cook for work, see you in a while…
NewEnglandDevil: thoughts?
not bad.
aj: To be so repulsed you vote in a Democrat?
My friends and family voted either Mccain, Barr, or Baldwin.
aj: To be so repulsed you vote in a Democrat?
Buckley, Brooks, Powell, et all. The “Moderate” Republicans, voted Obama.
Imagine that, McCain was not their choice….
What’s that moderate theory again??
Take care folks. I enjoy talking with you. See you in the future. Think I’ll stay away for a while.
Conservatives aren’t trying to purge moderates. They are trying to purge the progressive liberals. Hoffman won as big a percentage of the Independent vote as Christie did according to the last poll I saw.
Frogg1,
That is too funny. have you ever heard of the term RINO? think that is a sign of affection?
Everyone missed the biggest poll to be released yesterday. It was done by Rasmussen. 49% blame Bush for the economy and 45% blame Obama. Those numbers should flip when the calendar flips to 2010.
The Obama economy has started and will be in full swing come January 2010. I hope for Obama that the 3.5% GDP growth continues. A double dip recession in the 1st half of 2010 would take any predictions of the November mid-terms off the table.
I don’t like the term RINO. If a person cannot stay loyal to true conservatives on core issues (jobs, economy, free markets, less government spending, global warming, taxes, etc.), then they are not RINOs, they are DIABLOs. If they can stay loyal on big issues than they are center-right Republicans. The Republican Party is falling because it cannot define its core issues. I have a few issues that will be important next year: jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs. Did I mention private sector jobs?
BTW, did u see that great throng that attended Boxer’s Cap and Tax hearing. Is that a cricket I hear?
Bob McDonnell, Conservative Pragmatist–
This Virginia Republican offers a conservatism that can win again.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MTViYjY4YTEyNzM3Mjg3ZTRiZmIxNzNiN2VjZDA3ZjE=
Got to change the topic….this is huge:
Brave Iranians Hold MASSIVE PROTEST Against Regime – Chant “Obama, Obama Are You With Regime Or With Us?” (Video)
http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2009/11/brave-iranians-hold-massive-protest-against-regime-chant-obama-obama-are-you-with-regime-or-with-us-video/
I really don’t understand what far right conservatives mean and I don’t know what you mean by purity.
I think when you mean centrists and moderates, you mean conservatives.
The Democrats have done a good job giving a bad connotation to the word, “conservativism”.
And I think the fact that a third party cabdidate that entered the race six weeks before and came so close in a second place. This hasn’t happened in a long time, if not first time.
One thing about that election in NY23, I bet the locals are more careful about whom they nominate in the future. I also think that this was a rural district and my guess is they resented some of the national spot light. I read that Hoffman was not from the district. I liked Hoffman, he seemed like a perfectly nice man, but people in a place like may not be inclined to outsiders picking their people. If there had been a Republican primary and if Hoffman had won it, I think he would have won the general election easily.
As a general rule I do not support third parties, I think they are self deafeating. Beck might like them, but I am not sure Beck really cares who wins or loses. His main concern is ratings.
Frogg:
Oh yes, a lot of those conservatives are trying to purge the moderates. It is not just liberals they are after.
I have been wondering for some time what AJ means by far right. I have always considered myself right of center.
1. Abortion. Abortion should not be a federal issue but a state issue. The Constitution did not specifically say the feds could rule on this matter. In fact, it laid out what the feds could rule on and the states rule the rest or the people and our leaders have ignored this. I’ll go even further and say that this should be between a woman and her doctor and their consciences. The government on any level should stay out of it including and above all paying for it. Abortion should not even come into the equation. It is moot. Although wrongly ruled by the courts instead of legislature , Roe vs Wade will never be repealed.
2. Immigration. The laws on the books should be enforced. Employers should be fined hugely for hiring illegals irregardless of lawsuits trying to stop this procedure. I feel for the people who have been here decades but where is the cut off? But enough is enough. With immigrants hanging our flag upside down at their rallies, waving Mexican flags, and demanding some our states be returned to Mexico, I really have no sympathy for them. Catch and release is a ridiculous idea. Take them back to the border and release them on the other side and let them go through the proper procedure of getting in again. We need a fence that will stop them from coming especially the ones we have priviously deported for crimes committed. Also, if immigrants cannot learn our language and assimilate with our culture, go home.
3. Judges. I want constitutional judges who adhere to the Constitution and never mind social issues. I do not want activist judges who make law. That is not their jurisdiction.
4. Small government. The Constitution limits the feds power but has been largely ignored. One of the ways the feds have expanded their power is through the commerce clause. This is just another way to get around the Constitution and take over states rights. It seems everything done by multi states falls under the commerce clause even the Endangered Species Act. I fail to see how this Act involves commerce.
5. National defense. I support the military first of all. I also support our being armed to the teeth to defend ourselves. Only a fool would talk of disarming in this world of power hungry dictators. Only fools share our nuclear and other technology with anyone else. You never know who will be the enemy in the future.
6. Religion should never be an issue in politics. However, I don’t want someone who has divided loyalties to be president. I would not want anyone to be president whose religion dictates how he/she will rule or for them to rule by the tenets of their religion. I don’t want anyone who is or has been ever a dual citizen to be president.
7. Finally, I do not want a representative in congress who will vote to take away any freedoms I have or dictate to me how I live my life. I highly resent the toilet flushing, light bulbs and analog vs digital tv laws and I especially resent the global warming schlek. Also them overseeing garage sales. I also resent the way congress will go to extremes to correct a social problem that affects a minority, often times a minority of one.
49% percent people can blame Bush for the bad economy all they want. How soon we forget. It just shows how out of touch they are to reality. After the recession he inherited in 2001 and 9/11 he brought us to an outstanding economy. Dow was 14,000. But then, he actually did something about the economy and not just give billions to his friends and supporters.
BarbaraS:I would not want anyone to be president whose religion dictates how he/she will rule or for them to rule by the tenets of their religion.
Be careful what you wish for. Religion provides the ethics and moral principles that guide men along the right path.
Religion sometimes does need to be an issue in politics. Obama’s religious guidance — Black Liberation Theology. (Marxism)
Too bad the media was too squeamish to honesty explore what that portended for the country.
Religion is fine. But contrary to popular PC myth, they’re not all deserving of equal reverence.
http://tinyurl.com/ya2tpwh
I can add more to Barbara’s list, such as fiscally conservative principles and so on.
Religion: the original intent versus the last 100 years’ intent on separation of church and state is probably one of the most misunderstaindings we have today.
The growing secularism and its efforts should be a significant issue to all Americans, especially when Obama tells the world that our nation was not founded as a Christian nation.
Anytime I mention the Founding Fathers with anyone that came out of our public schools, they are so indoctrinated into believing the revision history of the American Founding.
I agree that religion is fine.
I was asked if I would have a problem voting for a Muslim as our US President.
Guess what my answer is:
If the Muslim believes in our US Constitution, Declaration of Independence, and the Bill of Rights, is a strong US citizens with minimal foreign influence, believes that all men created equal and are granted inherent and inalienable rights, among which include life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, endowed by our Creator.
If Keith Ellison was running for US President, Hell no!
This guy does not believe in our US Constitution at all. He swore using Thomas Jefferson’s book of Koran.
This country was not founded based on the book of Koran.
The activist courts have created the issue for both policital parties. They gave us Roe vs Wade and the Democrats went for full support of the right to kill babies and the Republican went for pro life. The courts thrust gay marriage on us and the Democrats think that is great and the Republicans want laws set up to block this. The issue has been thrust onto the American people by courts who refuse to follow the constitution and believe they can legislate from the bench and the Democrats support this and the Republican do not. How you solve that issue is why the parties are now forced into issues beyond those of bigger government, higher taxes, and the normal issues that would allow the left or the right from really uniting with the middle. You can build a big tent without the social issues. However, you cannot solve critical issues that involve social issues thrust on the people by activist courts. Many in the middle are uncomfortalbe with government legislators getting involved in social issues, but seem to not understand that the courts are the issue. Many fail to see how far out the courts have gone and how they create laws out of thin air. In all of history, I am not sure I see how the courts doing this have created a better end result. In civil rights, if you remove the civil rights act under LBJ which was supported strongly by the republican party, the rulings of the court to force integration in schools as an example was blowing the country apart. Yes it is wrong to have social ills, but the right way to fix things is with a populace that grows to understand and agree and to push legislation to resolve or to have leaders who can drive public and congressional agreement. I propose that when the court has force any issue, it is created problems because our country was formed to solve these issues only when they have strong backing or if rights clearly in the constitution are violated. We also have a constitution that severly limited the role of the federal government and this has also been butchered. This means that issues that are in many ways driven by the belief in a local area can be resolved in those states. If you are a minority, and feel you cannot agree or live there, you can move to one of the other states that agrees more with your beliefs. When the federal comes down, it forces areas of the country with many different beliefs to come under one law.
That is what makes this arguement for the conservatives who believe we are living in a holocaust of 50 million dead infants to comprimise and support a pro baby killer. That vote can have consequences where that senator for example may vote to put a judge on that continues this holocaust. Does it matter if they agree with you on spending or size of government? Would it have mattered in germany if a person was pro killing jews but right on the issues of federal spending? When on party pushes abortion in healthcare reform, and the middle goes along with it, can one simply support those political folks who do not have an issue with baby killing? Until 1973 Roe, this would not have been an issue and they got that law from out of the air.
I agree with a lot of the talk going around that the candidate selection process needs to involve the population of the jurisdiction, not just the political elite. Had there been a primary in the district, things might have turned out differently. Even a system like California used in the CA-10 special election was better. We had a preliminary election with several candidates of a bunch of different parties running. If one got 50% of the vote they won but if not, the top two would face off in November and that is what we had.
This would eliminate the problem in NY-23 where the party honchos “decided” the candidate. Let the people pick the candidate. Have a primary or a preliminary.
I’m not sure that the “way forward” requires any conscious effort on the part of Republicans. Liberalism and the Democratic party are both self-immolating. A discussion of the “far right”, “center left”, etc. etc., seems to me now to be so irrelevant, so…..day before yesterday.
If yesterday revealed anything, it revealed that the mushy middle is no longer so mushy. Virginia and New Jersey elected pro-life, anti gay-marriage pols, and their election had nothing to do with those issues. Voters essentially said-”give us our freedom back, and you can have intimate relations with farm animals if that’s what you want to do-we don’t care about anything but getting our freedom back.”
http://www.vdare.com/pb/091104_ny23.htm
AJ,
You are wrong in your analysis.
NY-23 is a classic example of the fact that politics starts with people and relationships, and never stops being about people and relationships.
Idealogues forget that.
Real politicians don’t, and they win because of it.
The GOP as a group — left, moderate center, or the various flavors of right wing — are unclear on this concept.
I read on several political web sites that no GOP official called Dede Scozzafava to console her after she withdrew.
No GOP national figure.
No GOP NY state figure.
None of the 11 GOP county chairmen who nominated her.
Not conservitive party candidate Doug Hoffman (Which marked him as not ready for prime time as a congressional candidate).
_NOT_A_SINGLE_ONE_.
Senator Shumer, the senior Democrat from New York, did, plus a number of other Democrats.
Dede Scozzafava endorsed Owen’s as a result and late deciders in the NY-23rd broke 3-to-1 for Owens and another 6% of local Republicans voted for Scozzafava in protest.
The story that comes to mind here is how Senator Harry Byrd of West Virginia personally flew to see then 29 year-old Senator-elect Joe Biden, immediately after Biden’s wife was killed in a horrible traffic accident after he was elected Senator but before he turned 30 and was sworn in. Biden was seriously considering resigning his seat before swearing in to take care of his kids.
Byrd did his level best to console Biden and convince him to stay in politics.
The GOP lacks such people.
It showed in the NY-23rd.
You would do well to reflect on this in your attacks on what you consider “the Republican Fringe.”
Another part of any “way forward” is to pay attention to your state legislature in 2010. Many states will be up for redistricting after the census. US House districts for the various states are generally drawn by the legislature. The majority legislature party has the say in how those are drawn in most states.
2010 will be a very important year in state legislature elections. Keep that in mind.
Trent:
More journalistic malpractice. Hoffman did go to see Dede, hat in hand for her endorsement. That is when he got the non-endorsement pledge from her. Then Schumer calls and she stabs Hoffman in the back. Maybe because no Republican leaders called or that the RNC went over to Hoffman so quickly without calling her. Either way Hoffman was talking to her all Saturday. I would blame this again on the local republican leaders, state republican leaders, as well as the NRCC and RNC.
trent:
Byrd did his level best to console Biden
was the compassionate Byrd wearing his white sheet at the time?
A Republican Civil War? Not Likely
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NTBhMTc2Y2U4NzU3MjY4ZTEyZmNiMzExMmY0YjMzMWM=
Exactly!!
Stevevvs,
No more spam comments or you are outta here.
What is Spam? FACTS?
Here is a tough one. How would we catagorize these people?
Thomas Jefferson [R]
James Madison [R]
James Monroe [R]
Andrew Jackson [D]
John Tyler [R]
James K. Polk [D]
Franklin Pierce [D]
James Buchanan [D]
What Do They All Have In Common?
They all Vetoed “Interior Improvement” projects passed by Congress. Such as Roads, Canals, etc. WHY?
Well you see, if something isn’t listed in the Constitution under Article 1 Section 8, then Congress has no authority to do it, without ammending the Constitution.
My, how times have changed. Now, we do anything we want without the slightest thought as to the Constitutionality of what is proposed.
So, what are they, Far Right, Far Left, Conservative Moderates, or just people who respect the Constitutional Limits placed upon them? Tough one isn’t it!
I read this today in my newest book.
I’m probubly done here. AJ hat’s FACTS I guess.
Libertarians win 8 victories in Pennsylvania elections
http://libertarianrepublican.blogspot.com/2009/11/libertarian-rino-wins-county-council.html
I said it over a month ago, and I still think it so……it will be the Libertarians and Conservatives who save the GOP. It may a pendulum swing that overcorrects Obamanomics; but, eventually things will swing back and forth until they settle center-right again.
[...] ARE NOT Republicans. They are Third Party Conservative Losers, but they are NOT Republicans. AJ Strata is right. If these people could decently align themselves with the GOP they could help us win. [...]