Feb 07 2010
Tea Party Self Destructs With Conservative Fringes
When the Tea Parties were non political gatherings of Americans challenging the deficit spending, deficit in tax cuts and deficit in respecting the judgement and goodness of Americans to do the right thing I was a big fan. But as the movement gained followers, it also attracted the same political wannabes who have tried to turn it into a ‘true ‘conservative’ movement. Which has destroyed the movement’s attraction with independents and centrists.
When you have Birthers given center stage to promote absurd conspiracy theories based on ignorance of law and technical issues you have gone way out of the mainstream. When you have nativist Tom Tancredo as a major speaker you have sunk beyond the fringes.
The Tea Party had a chance to allow center-left, center-right and as much of the far right who could stomach the center of America to come together in a modern Reaganesque coalition to oppose the liberal madness gripping DC. That opportunity is now gone:
You see, the popular conservative meme right now is that Democrats are arrogant and condescending and think that voters are stupid.
…
Given Democrats’ condescension, I wanted to see how a real American conservative would relate to the average voter. How would the far right express its deep belief in the power of the people?
…
Here is Tancredo’s opening: First, we should have a “civics literacy test” before people are allowed to vote. Second, “People who could not even spell the word vote or say it in English put a committed socialist ideologue in the White House whose name is Barack Hussein Obama.” Convention organizer Judson Phillips helpfully explained that “Tancredo doesn’t feel like a lot of people who supported Barack Obama understand the basics of this country.”
I am not wasting anymore time with the right-wing fringes. I and many others are fed up with both fringes and their condescending arrogance (usually as unfounded as their wild schemes and purity tests). And I feel for those who think this movement has any future, including one person I have supported recently with great hope:
During her speech at the National Tea Party Convention on Saturday night, former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin (R) ripped the Democratic Party and Obama administration, calling on them to “stop lecturing and start listening.”
That is a universally good idea. Stop lecturing and start listening. Start listening when it becomes clear there is no science behind global warming, nor is there any behind ntelligent design. Start listening when it becomes clear the science of biology proves human embryos are precious human beings with all the potential of anyone other human being, especially when that science is rooted in the real science of evolution and genetics.
Start listening when Americans want to be proud of their diversity, not see it as a wild eyed threat or constant handicap. Start listening when we make clear we are not interested in ignorance based conspiracy theories about the President not being a US Citizen or the President wasting time listening in on American telephone calls and not terrorists.
Over the years both fringes have more than demonstrated their inability to do more than tell everyone else what to do and screw up everything they touch. We have Democrat and Republican leaders in jail for bribery, destroying their families through the lust for power, talking out of multiple sides of their mouths and not doing what they preach.
Let me quote Palin again:
“Competition is good, it makes us work harder and produce more,” Palin said. “Despite what the pundits want you to think, contested primaries aren’t civil war, they are democracy at work and that’s beautiful.”
To a point. When you get to the Birthers and the immigrant haters it is not a beautiful thing. It is a train wreck. Count me out. As Palin said, there is a segment of the movement I am completely comfortable with:
Asked in a pre-screened questioned-and-answer session after the speech if the movement should become an independent party or join the GOP, Palin said, “The Republican Party would be very smart to absorb as much of the Tea Party movement as possible.”
But it is an ever shrinking segment it seems.
Update: See what I mean – NJ, VA and MA were won by winning over centrists, not repulsing them or rejecting them.
Update: For folks who think I am off base here, I suggest they stop by and see Ed Morrissey’s take on this incident. Others may waster their time with the fringe, but I won’t.
Update: Reader Aitch748 provides this good peak inside the Tennessee event and how it differs from the grass roots movement.
47 Responses to “Tea Party Self Destructs With Conservative Fringes”
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Can’t argue much with this post, yet don’t throw the baby out with teh bathwater. This was a commercial gathering, and hopefully, does not reflect the true core of the Tea Party movement.
roger
True Roger, but as an indication of where it is going, it is looking to be a disaster. It was fine being a movement rising in opposition to liberal madness. Then the fringes tried to claim it vindicated their waning views, and it all fell apart.
Answer me one little question and I will give your article more serious consideration.
Question is, What year, yes, what year did our President change his name to Barak Hussein Obama?
Fair Enough?
Yours in Freedom,
Dan
I notice that WND’s Farah spoke, I consider him part of a fringe group but in my opinion, he’s mostly interested in making money. The birther movement will go nowhere. It’s a dead issue.
I think the best part of the “Tea Party” movement is it gives ordinary Americans the sense that they have a voice. But it will fail if it can’t embrace all candidates points of view including those who are not purist conservatives.
My other fear is that it will be infiltrated to totally discredit any one who is supported by the Tea Party. To get back our country we will have to work together and not let ourselves be divided. There has to be room for everyone, but I do agree, fringe groups are destructive whether from the right or the left.
There is another group that I consider iffy… GOOOOH, not ever Congressman or Senator is bad. Throwing everyone out of office won’t work either.
AJ, you said it better than I did, with fewer words.
dandtoy,
I think you confused me with someone who cares …
You’d understand better if you read up a bit on the subject.
The fringe has nothing to do with conservativism and constitutionalism.
The “purity” also has nothing to do with conservatism and constitutionalism. And I see conservatism == constitutionalism.
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2010/02/025543.php – I see Paul Ryan == conservatism == constitutionalism.
The reason I don’t see conservatism == constitutionalism as purity is because they are based on the founding principles and principles of Aquinas, Republic as described in Montesquieu’s ”
The Spirit of Laws”, etc.
There do seem to be in a sense two Tea Parties — there is the grassroots movement, and then there are the would-be leaders. HillBuzz warned about some people in Tennessee connected with the Tea Party convention there:
American Thinker has an interesting article about the Tea Party movement:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/02/populist_constitutionalism_and.html
“Populist Constitutionalism” – that’s what the Tea Party is all about. Love and respect for the Constitution is driving the movement. Sharing the document, and then discussing the meaning, purpose, and the ideas of the Constitution, that is the process that is taking place as a result of this love and respect.
Some people think Obama, Palin, and Huck are populists but Obama’s “populism” is vastly different from Palin’s and Huck’s “populism”.
This article says the Tea Party movement lacks a charisma leader but doesn’t need one.
The tea-party convention had a wide range of people and views. Some of those, like the ambulatory facepalms that are the birthers are going to most likely be officially repudiated by the group as a whole….as Morrisey pointed out in his update.
AJ, you are correct that some people who were initially supportive of the movement are concocting their own purity tests (though they’d never say as much) and are trying to purge the movement of those who do not hold views very very close to their own. You can most easily oppose these people by screaming into the nearest mirror.
Or you could sit back, catch your breath and recognize that Palin is right and we shouldn’t be such purists that we make enemies of people we agree with on 80% of issues. This is politics. It involves compromises and people with divergent views coming together for a common purpose. One thing that does not work is shouting and screaming at people who don’t meet your personal litmus test for “not of the fringe”. A test that seems to have become more stringent with every passing month.
This nation faces a transcendental threat a debt that will end it in a few years if we don’t deal with it. The first step to correcting this problem is to defeat the left. This will require a broad coalition.
You point out correctly that the fringes of the left and right can find themselves on the edge of a precipice. But your tone has become very nearly as shrill as either and you now seem to be walking a tightrope over an abyss.
Sso please shimmy back, sit down, drink some hot chocolate and contemplate the zen beauty and opportunity that is the 32 inches of global warming on on our nations capital.
I’m not at all discouraged by a few voices on the fringe. The tea party movement platform rejects them. It is all about fiscal conservatism, freedom, and the Constitution. They are staying away from social issues while realizing they have different voices in those area and are free as individuals to express those opinions –while other can reject those opinions. Where they move forward as a force is on low taxes, limited government, fiscal restraint, etc.
Breitbart, Farah argue Birtherism at Tea Party convention
excerpt:
Update: HA commenter Knucklehead says that Carl Cameron at Fox reported a few minutes ago that other Tea Party organizations will hold a presser later today to condemn Birtherism and distance themselves from it. That sounds like a healthy decision. Also, be sure to read the rest of the exchange between Breitbart and Farah in Weigel’s article; it actually went downhill from there.
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/02/06/breitbart-farah-argue-birtherism-at-tea-party-convention/
Amen!
How many people do you actually know who are actually involved in “Tea Parties”?
Where I live, there are 3 active tea party people – and are known locally as a little but crazy.
More and more I think the whole thing is a FOX news scam.
SJR
The Pink Flamingo
Erik Ericson of Redstate Blog (who had previously been critical of the Nashville Tea Party Convention) had some thoughts after checking it out for himself:
Thoughts on the Nashville Tea Party Convention and Sarah Palin
http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/02/06/thoughts-on-the-nashville-tea-party-convention-and-sarah-palin/
And, let’s not forget….
The Nashville Convention is NOT the whole of the tea party movement. It is but a small part.
The thing about Tancredo that bothered me was his idiotic statement “Thank God McCain lost the election” or words to that effect. The idea being that if McCain had won we would not be seeing conventions like this…never mind the debt, the division, the wrecked economy, it is all about guys like Tom getting an opportunity to strut their stuff.
I really doubt if that is why those people turned out to oppose Obamacare and runaway spending.
-Count me out-
AJ,
You were already out. For a long time.
When you started attacking the conservatives and taking Johnson’s side (yeah, that despicable lizard…) you chose sides.
dbostan – and happily!
Of course, my only insult against the far right is they need to stop insulting fellow Americans!
Too funny. I could say the far right is really thin skinned and struggle to maintain a professional demeanour – but I don’t think they would get it???
I find the far right to believe in the founding principles while there are some fringe. I suppose that I would put myself on the far right but I don’t insult fellow Americans.
I think stereotyping, especially inaccurate labeling, is not good for anyone from the center to right, mainly because of how the progressives play this game.
dbostan:
I think Johnson has gone off the deep end myself, but having Birthers show up at the Tea Party convention will only give him something else to yammer about. Why make it easier for people like that?
BTW, the local tea party organizations are not crazy. They are reasonable, conservatives, and most certainly NOT the fringe and of purity. Most that I know are strong believers in the Founding principles, US Constitution, Declaration of Independence, and BORs. They believe in limited and self-governance. They believe in low taxes, controlled and low spending with a balanced budget, the federal government to stay out of our lives, and so on. Some of them are members of the Oath Keepers.
Maybe that’s why AJ sees something entirely different from what I see as what exactly is far right, fringe, and purity.
1. Anybody can question anything about our President, including his BC. I do not think this is a winning issue, but I would not censure somebody for asking questions.
2. This conference is one of many, not even coalescing all the tea parties. I do not think that would be desirable, as a matter of fact.
People are just looking to find common ground and a way to influence how the country is governed.
3. In my opinion, to which I am entitled, I hope, is that the tea parties MUST stay independent of both parties, for the time being.
They must support candidates that represent the people, irrespective of the D or R after their name. It is true that right now, the demshevik party being completely taken over by the marxists, the GOP seems to be the only viable choice, even displaying some variety of opinions.
lurker:
Well of course, a lot of the locals are fine, sane people, but then a lot of the locals were not at the conference either.
dbostan:
Yes, the Tea Party movement, is just that: a movement. It is not a political party and it should stay that way. If and when it becomes a party or becomes part of any one party then the divisions will make themselves plain. In fact, I think that just having a national conference was a little strange in and of itself. A lot of the people I know who are involved in all this, are strictly local people who are working from the bottom up, they have nothing to do with any national parties.
But the Birther issue is a fringe issue and it detracts from the main purpose of the movement, which is out of control spending and growth of government. Tancredo running his mouth about how fortunate we are that McCain lost is no more helpful than the birther issue, either.
I agree that the conference was quite out of keeping with what most people thought the Tea Party was all about, and it sure looks to me like it was a few people who decided they could cash in quick. $500 tickets? Come On. And that made it a free for all for everyone who has an axe to grind – who anywhere listens to Tancredo now that he’s out of office for good? But a stage like this begging for old names was tailor-made for him.
It’s hard to know if Palin’s attendance will help her or not – she does need to keep finding ways to keep her face in the news, but did she go too far? Remains to be seen. Personally, I think she would do better by staying on Fox for a few years, and I don’t really want to see her run for anything – too divisive. But if she keeps teaming up with Beck they could drive the Dems crazy and that’s all to the good.
The Tea Party movement is going to follow the trajectory of all other great American protest movements; it’s like a great beast with 10,000 mouths but no head, and it will rage through the land and lay waste to many things. But in the end the fire will burn itself out, the best parts will be co-opted by the closest party (in this case, the GOP) and the movement will fade away, like all the other before it.
And that’s not a bad thing – the good ideas will be absorbed, the bad ideas will be purged, and a lot of old deadwood will be swept away. That’s how our system works.
Yeah, I wouldn’t pay 500 bucks for it either. I cannot believe that Palin asked for 100,000; yet, later that money is to go back into the cause.
WWS, good point. I still believe that there’s lots of goodness coming out of this and that is EDUCATION of Constitutionalism ANd conservativism. NOT the fringe and NOT the purity.
Unless someone equates purity with the Founding principles. Why? Because the Founding principles is NOT equal to moral relativism, collectivism, and historicism.
This was a good thing, warts and all. It forced the MSM to pay attention if for no other reason than to attack.
No, I could not believe they had Tancredo. I still think the issue DIMS will revive right before the election will be immigration. They know it was as destructive to the GOP as Katrina was to Bush. Close family members agree on most but will still argue over this one.
We only have to agree over the Constitution, security and leave all the social issues to the states. The other person I would buy a roll of tape for his mouth is Glenn Beck. Such a darn shame for someone to do such good work and then go over the cliff. I hate to tell him but don’t think he is perfect Tea Party either.
Of course, my only insult against the far right is they need to stop insulting fellow Americans!
Does that include the people that insult the ‘far right’?
owl said:
We only have to agree over the Constitution
uh….. but not this part?
<blockquote>Article II section 1.
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President;
We all know what a ‘natural born citizen’ is and we all know what BHO ain’t. And that does not make me a birther, it makes me an American that can read and understand and believe in the constitution.
The other person I would buy a roll of tape for his mouth is Glenn Beck.
what we need is 10 more Glenn Beck’s out there showing the truth and showing it loudly. People are listening, he’s the biggest show on Fox News. Thank Goodness.
AJ, you would be interested to find out what the Hillbuzz boys (Hillary supporters) think about what is actually on the birth certificate…it’s not about HIM, in their opinions.
Redteam:
Glenn Beck cares for Beck. He went after Scott Brown as soon as the man was elected. He said Bush should have been impeached and he said we were better off with Obama than with McCain…he also said Teddy Roosevelt was an imperialist thug for picking on the Spanish…the man is not a conservative, he is at best a libertarian and he is all about making money.
I was kind of surprised to see what the Hillbuzz boys thought, because that’s real similar to what I’ve always thought privately.
my belief has always been:
He was born in Hawaii, no citizenship problem – but the birth certificate almost certainly lists him as white (caucasion) since his father was nowhere around and his mother was white.
Obama has never wanted to try to explain how a white boy grew up to be a black man. And remember he grew up in his rich white grandparents house. It’s a pretty good metaphor for the fraud that’s been at the center of his personality since the day he was born.
It’s like the Jon Edwards stuff – it’ll come out once he’s out of office and there’s nothing more to protect.
WWS
He was born in Hawaii, no citizenship problem
no citizenship problem. agree.
BHO, Sr British citizen.
natural born citizen? problem, not eligible
but hey, that’s only according to the US Constitution, what does it know.
Redteam,
What you don’t know staggers the mind. What bubble gum wrapper constitution did you read to say the son of a US woman is not a citizen? Is this because you are an intelligent designer and don’t get the DNA thing with mothers, etc???
Dude, do yourself a favor and stop showing off far right stupidity. Just for a while????
It really is embarrassing.
I’m sure I’m not the first person to suggest, A.J., that your apparent enthusiasm for “comprehensive immigration reform” places you on the fringes of conservative thought. This puzzles me, since you do not seem the sort who would endulge in Geraldo-like self-simulation over the issue. I can appreciate your disapprobation of the “haters”–people who instinctively view the “cultural other” with hostility. They are doing a great deal of damage, particularly in areas such as mine, which is predominately Hispanic (and, for the record, I have Hispanic relatives, and 3 of my closest neighbors are Hispanic.) Even conservative Hispanics who have been here so many generations they can hardly get out a complete sentence in Spanish are quick to take offense at the crude stereotypes hurled at the undocumented. And it is hardly a matter of refusal to recognize that many of them are worthy people, doing as we would do, were we similarly situated. But on what basis do I acquire a greater duty to them than may have existed before their (to me) unwelcome arrival? What is the source of my duty to bestow voting rights upon them? Why should their labor, thought necessary by some, be linked to citizenship? You and I know how they will vote for generations.
The present state of affairs is intolerable. We should be bringing in the most educated, not the least. Even the most hardened “progresso” would stand aghast at the thought of opening our borders to the masses of Asia and Africa. So why have we created a system which creates a preference for those coming from the South? And we know that, once granted citizenship, they will do their utmost to bring their relatives here, many of whom will be additional “dead weight” on the system.
The worst of it is this: even if we knuckle under to the demands being made, the Democrats will simply go through the motions of closing the border. Why would they do otherwise? They feel more affinity for the immigrants than for the rest of us. I suspect you’re going to end up on the wrong side of history on this one, A.J.
Even GOP conservative Ron Paul draws Tea Party opposition
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/politics/state/stories/DN-ronpaul_07tex.ART.State.Edition1.4bf50f3.html
Glenn Reynolds came away feeling quite good about the National Tea party Conference in Nashville:
Glenn Reynolds: Nashville Shows Tea Party Is America’s Third Great Awakening
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columns/OpEd-Contributor/Glenn-Reynolds-Tea-Party-Nashville-was-Americas-Third-Great-Awakening–83762647.html#ixzz0evdNX1Hg
Flint,
If the ‘fringe’ of conservative thought is also centrists that should tell you something about the perch you are sitting on.
Doh!
The real elephant in the room here is those folks who thought that the “Tea party” is an actual party and that Sarah Palin had joined (or taken it over).
This is still a “movement”, not a party.
Just look at the bumpy landscape that this weekend created. We had (former) Rep. Tom Tancredo’s speech that went into (paraphase) “can’t spell vote or say it”. Also, a taste of the “Birther” thing and Andrew Breitbart with the “press sucks” stuff. None of this gives any “warm and fuzzy” feelings to many who want fiscal responsibility in DC, which I thought was the focus of “Tea Parties”.
These “little issues” do nothing except to push people away, but at the same time I’ve seen a number of “thin skinned” folks who preach about inclusiveness one day and stomp off after one of these “little issues” come up.
The “Tea Party” movement shouldn’t be thought of as a banner of aparty, but rather a rallying call for a philosphy.
I have been a conservative Republican since Barry Goldwater inspired me to do the research necessary to vote intelligently for people who are motivated to abide by the rules and limitations laid out in the Constitution. I am offended by the “new wave” pseuo conservatives who have deserted their beloved liberal, progressive Democrat Party because it has been taken over by America haters and bashers who relish the thought of an American military defeat by the ever increasing number of lunatics espousing whatever cause just so it is anti American, and now want to transform the Republican Party into their old Democrat Party. What we do not need is for the Republican Party to turn into a Democrat Party Lite. I don’t buy into the oft repeated theory that as the “richest country in the world” we owe anything to anyone. If, as has happened under repeated Democrat, and Democrat Lite, administrations our government had not been transformed into a quasi religious institution which has taken on the functions once delegated to churches and other charitable institutions, we would not have an imigration problem. If the people who come here, legally and illegally, had to work to earn their keep, there would be a lot fewer of them beating on the gates to get here. If we had realistic, yet humane, abortion laws, we wouldnt’ have the wholesale slaughter of innocents that we have today. There are too many ways to prevent pregnancy for any woman to have to resort to abortion other than as a medical necessity. In every other area that the government has taken over the function of churches it has created worse proplems than those it was trying to solve. If someone wants to advocate separation of church and state, they need to challenge the government setting itself up to take over the functions of religions without the moral strings that churches attach. If this makes me a member of the lunatic fringe, so be it.
Wow! Didn’t read over the weekend and missed all the furballs flying.
Wow AJ – talk about “condescending arrogance.”
You put Tancedo down by linking to an opinion piece written by a left wing hack in the Washington Post and we’re supposed to be in agreement. I don’t know everything Tancredo has ever said but I do know that out here in Arizona illegal immigration is a huge problem, costing we the taxpayers millions of dollars a year that we can’t afford. It is (yes, really) a huge problem which is why it is a big issue. When I’ve heard Tancredo in the past he has advocated that we control our borders and stop providing incentives for people to break our laws and come here illegally. Does that make him a “nativist?
I guess that makes my wife, who teaches third grade a nativist because she complains that she can’t spend enough time with her kids teaching them becaues she has to remediate the 1/3 of her class that barely speaks english.
I guess that I am too because while I celebrate diversity I don’t see it as “a constant threat” but rather I’m sick of having political correctness hit me over the head everytime I dare to speak out against a protected class.
You claim to be sick of all the fringes calling others names and not listening and then you proceed to do the same. Take a break, take a deep breath, and calm dowm. You do too much good work to get caught up in the same mudslinging that you so despise.
I rest my case. Ya think the DIMS didn’t note it was a bomb?
Flint:
Reagan actually signed an honest to God amnesty bill. And Conservatives do not doubt he was a conservative. Sarah Palin supported a path to citizenship as well and somehow or other conservatives have no problem supporting her.
The problem that people like Tancredo created was that they simply allowed for no debate. They laid the ground rules, agree with them or be a traitor. Plain and simple. And most people do not really go that far, after all, the American people voted for Barack Obama and he is to the left of AJ on immigration reform. It did not bother people enough to make them support Tancredo in the primary much less the national election.
People do want the borders secure, but most people do not want law enforcement chasing down roofers and nannies and fruit pickers. I do think the recession has made a difference however, because a lot of these people have decided not to come here after all.
Layman:
Tancredo made a point of saying that he not only wanted to stop illegal immigration, he wanted to call a halt to immigration period. I remember hearing him say that at a debate in the Republican primaries, he was the only Republican who went that far.
Neo:
Tancredo actually said Thank God McCain lost the election. That was enough for me to say he is over the top. But you are right, the Tea Party movement, is a movement, not a party. Lots of people with different concerns coming together to voice their anger at government spending and growth.