Mar 31 2006
On Immigration, All Sides Making Things Worse
If the debate continues as it is going, the radical immigrants (La Raza) and the isolationists will create such an atmosphere of emotion it will never be resolved. Victor Davis Hanson has the right take on this, which is the immigrants who marched were not necessarily hurting their cause – until they waved Mexican flags and began ‘lecturing their hosts’. I really enjoyed this summation from a California resident:
Most Americans I talked to in California summed up their reactions to the marches as something like, ‘Why would anyone wave the flag of the country that they would never return to–and yet scream in anger at those with whom they wish to stay?’
My wife is from California and all her family is still there. My sister has been in southern California for decades now (sorry Sis), so we here the frustration and the issues. It is not nationalistic, it is more like the exasperation one sees with dead beat guest who won’t get on their own two feet. Sadly, this image probably applies to a minority of the immigrants. 11 million dead beats would be impossible to miss. 11 million folks waving mexican flags would be tough to miss.
Let me put this in perspective, since large numbers are hard to get the mind around. Cuban exiles are a large portion of the Florida population. But they are a fraction of the Cuban population back in Cuba – and Cuba is estimated to have a population of 11 million people. Don’t you think we would notice the entire Cuban nation roaming our streets in an uproar given how prevalent the exiles are in southern Florida? Obviously most of the immigrants are NOT taking to the streets or radicalism.
The Hispanic minority in this country is extimated at 35 million (how many are illegal is unknown). They are now our largest minority in America. If the vast majority of them were radical we would know it. So two things need to happen. (1) The nationalists need to stop pointing at the radicals and stop smearing some 35-46 million people through racial associations with these radicals. (2) The majority of legal aliens, illegal aliens and Hispanic Americans need to distance themselves from these radicals so the nationalists have no way to gin up xenophobic fears.
But we don’t have a lot of time. The impact of mob mentality in the modern information age is still be ‘explored’. In other word, we are playing with fire and some one is already getting burned.
Don’t forget Michael Savage’s comments on the Catholic Church.
The sad thing is, I bet the right side ofthe blogosphere will sweep those comments under the rug and pretend they never happened.
Please do not compare Cubans, even in passing, to Mexicans or other “Hispanics” or “Latinos”. If it were not for my brave Cuban parents, I would still be in that hell-hole of an island. Luckily, we left when I was 7 years old. I am now 43, and proud to be an American of Cuban descent. If it were not for this country’s immigration LAWS, we would not have been allowed in. My family waited YEARS to leave Cuba – they applied for entry before I was even conceived! YEARS, where my father was not allowed to work in Cuba because we were “gusanos” (worms) waiting to leave the country (except for the months on end of forced labor in the cane fields, away from his family). YEARS where we were living in a one bedroom apartment (family of 5), and were not allowed to move to bigger accommodations, again, because we were “gusanos.” I slept in a crib from birth until the age of 7, when we left. My father supported our family by hiring himself out as a private taxi driver (with his own car) and doing odd-jobs on the side. When we arrived here, we received some help from our extended family (Cubans are a proud people). Both my parents quickly got to work: my father in the construction business, my mother in a clothing factory. We were happy enough to be here, and my parents were able-bodied. We didn’t need government handouts. Ours is not an isolated case, that’s the way most Cuban’s started out in this country. I am not a fan of illegal immigration, much less of rewarding illegal behavior. I am not now, nor will I ever be in favor of demonstrating AGAINST the American government, even though I may disagree with certain policies at certain times (wet-foot/dry-foot policy, for one). I will NEVER place another flag above an American flag while in this country, nor will I burn an American flag. Yes, I am proud of my Cuban heritage, but I am an American, and humbled that I was allowed in to partake in the American dream. I would venture to say most Americans of Cuban descent feels the same way. Want to hear more? Check out babalublog.com Val Prieto speaks for me. (Sorry for the rant. This is my first post ever to a blog, even though I’m an avid reader of yours and Val’s blog, along with many others. Thanks for your dedication to the blogosphere, and keep up the great work!)
Harold, I don’t think the majority on the “right side” of the blogosphere pay much attention to the likes of Michael Savage. I likely never would have even been aware of his comments without your link. His appeal is mainly to the hyper-bigots of the extreme far right fringe, and they won’t sweep his comments under the rug — they’ll embrace them. Fortunately, they are a tiny minority.
That quote will be out there by November. Even with William Donohue’s putting it out there, people will be asking, “What the heck?”
Also, Savage is heard on over 350 stations. That’s not small potatoes.
Of course La Raza is making things worse. They don’t want immigrants to assimilate and adopt American loyalties.
They want to exploit Indians/Hispanics against the US.
The last thing they want is for immigrants to become citizens and part of the American quilt.
Look. La Raza wants to create a new government in the SW. Ward Churchill also wants to create an Indian nation called Turtle Nation.
He wants the US “off the planet.”
Many people are unwittingly drawn into the La Raza movement via educational and cultural activities–film, education, art. music, dance.
These are not just cultural expressions of ethnicity but political indoctrination. Typical communist agitprop. But La Raza objects to English and civics courses for Hispanics.
They consider themselves in a low-intensity war to overthrow our system of government. They aren’t here to join us; they are here to overthrow us.
They sometimes say that they don’t recognize the US or our borders or our right to decide citizenship. They say that since they are Indians they were here first and our borders don’t need to be respected.
It is too bad, but those are the facts.
AJ writes: “the radical immigrants (La Raza) and the isolationists will create such an atmosphere of emotion it will never be resolved.”
La Raza/Aztlan does not want the problem resolved. The more trouble on the border, the more conflict, the better it is for them. Their goal is anti-American propaganda, not a solution to illegal immigration, border controls, and rules for getting citizenship.
They are helping America’s enemies; they want to make trouble.
For example Aztlan is claiming that Nick Berg’s execution was filmed at Abu Graib. What does that have to do with Hispanic immigrants, AJ?
http://www.aztlan.net/berg_abu_ghraib_video.htm
Here is the official site of La Raza Aztlan
http://www.aztlan.net/
“The Voice of Aztlán, a magazine publishing news, analyses, and scholarly writings on La Raza.”
La Raza/Aztlan is claiming its supposed ancestral homeland, the USA:
Here are their own words:
“In Chicano folklore, Aztlan is often appropriated as the name for that portion of Mexico that was taken over by the United States after the Mexican-American War of 1846, on the belief that this greater area represents the point of parting of the Aztec migrations. In broad interpretation, there is some truth to this in the sense that all of the groups that would subsequently become the various Nahuatl-speaking peoples of central Mexico passed through this region in a prehistoric epoch, as attested by the existence of linguistically related groups of people distributed throughout the US Pacific Intermountain region, the US southwest and northern Mexico, known as the Uto-Aztecan-Tanoan group, and including such peoples as the Paiute, Shoshoni, Hopi, Pima, Yaqui, Tepehuan, Rarámuri (Tarahumara), Kiowas and Mayas.”
http://www.azteca.net/aztec/aztlan.html
Looks like this Spring of Discontent is becoming something more than just a paper work issue, huh?
Those who have lived here in California have known the true agenda of the Mexican illegals for decades. La Raza didn’t spring up over night, they were a force on campus in the late ’60s. They are now in full blossom. Savage is irrelevent because he is too late. The Senate is irrelevent because it doesn’t realize the invasion has already occurred. The solution? What solution! Better get ready to learn Spanish.
Except for Tancredo, the Republicans and Bush are out to lunch. The Democrats are licking their chops at this new infusion of likely voters and most US citizens are ONLY NOW BEGINNING TO WAKE UP. Have you heard, the illegals want the right to vote! They are already doing it illegally of course.
Frankly, I disbelieve most of the nostrums spooned out by the media and others. Yes you can get rid of 11 + illegals. They didn’t come in one day and you can’t kick them out in one day. Ergo, there should be a long term policy and program to evict these people.
I don’t believe the U.S. economy would suffer if we evicted illegals, if we agreed to a policy of a guest worker program. People who abuse us by being here illegally will have to go and re-enter legally as documented aliens. Those who refuse should be ejected and refused further access.
I don’t believe 99% of the illegals (as O’Reilly and others say) are contributing to our society. I dare say many are already incarcerated in our jails, many are under age children (incapable of working), many are out of work moms (many on welfare), many of the children are in our public schools and many are ‘aged’ and probably collecting social security. How 99% is quoted over and over again is beyond me, except to hoodwink Americans into believing we can’t do without illegal Mexicans.
I don’t believe Mexican illegals are solely concentrated in our agricultural economy, doing the work U.S. citizens wouldn’t do. Study after study shows Mexican illegals are in every facet of the work force (those that work that is). As such, they are doing work U.S. citizens WOULD BE DOING if they were not displaced by lower waged illegals.
Do we need cheap labor for agriculture? Sure, the cheaper the better. If Mexicans want to work at low wages in the fields, let them come as legal documented workers.
This is not just a paper work issue. The aims of La Raza is the reconquest of the southern U.S. They have never tried to hide this; however our gutless press has tried to make us blind to the goals and attitude of many illegals. The press’ attempts failed this month when photographs and reports exposed the illegals true feelings. A picture is worth a thousand words and hundreds of pictures cannot hide the truth any longer.
Besides looking the other way at illegals streaming across our border, there is a security issue beyond ‘la reconquita’. In case anyone forgot, Al Queda can come across too. A border wall (real and virtual) is needed too and not just across Mexico. This isn’t xenophobia. The threat is real. Do I have to remind anyone of the Twin Towers or Pentagon? Yes I do since we seem to be going through a collective amnesia.
If there is a solution (I’ve noted a few above), it will require a systems approach. There is not just one problem and one solution. But there are many problems. Do we have the vision to see and the will to solve the problems? I don’t know the answer to that.
Here is a snip about the “nation” of Aztlan” from Front Page. The problem is more complicated than just a bunch of poor people who need to be assimilated. HE is what Astlan/LaRaza/MEchA is really up to.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=9949
“At colleges and universities across the country, the Movimiento Estudiantil de Chicanos de Aztlan (The Student Movement of Aztlan Chicanos) — better known by its acronym, MEChA — is calling for the surrender of wide swaths of American territory to Mexico. Worse yet, in doing so, it has the support of university administrators, elected officials, and — thanks to the mandatory student activity fees on which the organization depends — tuition-paying students. 1
Founded in the late 1960s, MEChA has spent the last three decades indoctrinating Latino students on American campuses in the ideology of reconquista (reconquest). According to MEChA propaganda, the Southwestern United States — including California, Arizona, Texas, New Mexico, as well as parts of Nevada, Utah, and Colorado — sits on the territory of the ancient (and mythical) “Nation of Aztlan.†Supposedly the cradle of Aztec civilization, MEChA charges that Aztlan was unjustly seized by the United States following the Mexican-American War. Now MEChA wants this territory given back to its alleged rightful owners: the people and government of Mexico.
As a matter of fact, the American Southwest was not, as MEChA claims, “stolen†from Mexico. Following the Mexican-American War, the government of Mexico legally ceded this territory to the United States (by the Treaty of Guadalupe de Hidalgo, 1848). Nor has there ever been any place called “Aztlan†on American soil, much less a “Nation of Aztlan.†Invented 30 years ago by radical Latino activists, the Nation of Atzlan has more in common with Atlantis than with Israel. But MEChA is not a group to let facts get in the way. There are today more than 300 MEChA unions in existence, with more than 100 in California alone……
On the West Coast, where MEChA is to be found in nearly every institution of higher education, the movement is spreading so quickly that it has set its sights on the public school system, establishing high school chapters and encouraging its young supporters to participate in its numerous (and sometimes violent) protests and marches.
The revolution that MEChA plans for the American Southwest is to be a peaceful one — at least for the time being. By supporting continued high levels of Mexican immigration to the United States, MEChA hopes to achieve by sheer weight of numbers what the U.S. government long ago achieved by force of arms: the re-partition of the American Southwest. To this end, MEChA endorses a cocktail of pro-immigration policies. These include open borders, government benefits (including the right to vote and obtain drivers licenses) for non-citizens, amnesty for illegal aliens, dual citizenship, state recognition of Spanish as an official language, and racial set-asides in education and corporate hiring.
MEChA is hardly alone in promoting these policies. The National Council of La Raza and the Mexican-American Legal Defense and Education Fund (MALDEF), two of the better known Latino advocacy groups, also support them (as does Mexican President Vicente Fox). What distinguishes MEChA from its more mainstream counterparts, however, is its explicit and virulent calls for reconquest. While organizations like La Raza and MALDEF may harbor irredentist dreams, MEChA has made the reconquest of the American Southwest the central platform of its program.”
More of the vanguard MCChA’s own words from Front Page. They are communists who want to kill white people–specifically the INS officials:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=9949
While organizations like La Raza and MALDEF may harbor irredentist dreams, MEChA has made the reconquest of the American Southwest the central platform of its program.
As one of MEChA’s founding documents, El Plan Espiritual de Aztlan (The Spiritual Plan of Atzlan) puts it: “In the spirit of a new people that is conscious not only of its proud historical heritage but also of the brutal ‘gringo’ invasion of our territories, we, the Chicano inhabitants and civilizers of the northern land of Aztlan from whence came our forefathers, reclaiming the land of their birth and consecrating the determination of our people of the sun, declare that the call of our blood is our power, our responsibility, and our inevitable destiny.â€
El Plan Espiritual is typical, not just for its atrocious prose, but also for its violent racial overtones. Indeed, to judge by the numerous Web sites and student publications sponsored by MEChA, life after the reconquest is going to be a pretty dreary affair. Just beneath the surface of the Marxist-inspired “union of free pueblos†imagined by MEChA visionaries runs a rich vein of race hatred and conspiratorial anti-Semitism. As an editorial addressed to “capitalist whites†in the University of California Irvine’s La Voz Mestiza (The Mestiza Voice) concludes, “You’ve spilled enough of our blood, now it’s your turn to bleed you [expletive] sub-human beasts.†Or, as one of MEChA’s many charming slogans has it, “por la Raza todo; fuera la Raza nadaâ€: for those of our race, everything; for those outside of it, nothing….
In calling for the re-partition of the American Southwest, MEChA is not just seeking the overthrow of the American government but the overthrow of its people as well. Only in this way will it achieve “the bronze continent for the bronze people†of which it dreams. This is strong beer, indeed. As a number of recent cases indicated, however, MEChA is not just tolerated on our supposedly multicultural campuses. It is encouraged:
1) In 1995, the Voz Fronteriza, the University of California San Diego’s (UCSD) official MEChA publication, ran an editorial on the death of a Latino INS agent. Describing him as a traitor to his race who deserved to die, the editors of the Voz concluded that “all the migra [a pejorative term for the Immigration and Naturalization Service] pigs should be killed, every single one.â€
Vicente Fox told reporters yesterday that there would be no Mexican military on his NORTHERN border as they have been placed on the southern border of Mexico. Fox said that over 240,000 Central American illegals were deported by the Mexican military last year alone. I can tell you, this was done at the point of a gun.
Fox is also asking the P.M. of Canada to take more of his people, legal or illegal. So it seems that Mexico’s one largest export will be humans.
True to his “reconquista” roots, Fox said yesterday,
“We can’t infringe upon the right of people to move freely within OUR territory”. That territory, according to Vicente Fox uncludes the area known as Aztlan.
Aztlan is mythical. It does not/never has existed. But it is a movement that is being much ignored by the MSM as Hitler’s pure race objective was ignored in 1938.
We should learn from history. When a people have nothing, and nothing to look forward to, they become militant. Hitler build his nation to the strengh he did on racial (Nordic) purity while we watched. Radicals from the Middle East build on their racial purity and we all watched as those who believed in that doctrine flew planes into large buildings and killed 3,000 Americans. The mayor of Los Angeles is a MEChA member and was a strong militart in the past. It seems he has not changed his tune.
To ignore the goals of the Atzlan and MEChA crowd is stupid and dangerous. I am afraid it is the snowball that is rolling down hill and gaining in size and speed the farther it goes.
Americans are fed up. They are fed up with having to put up with those who refuse to learn English, they are fed up with the crime rate among those who have entered our nation illegally (disportionately high) and they are fed up with schools mandating that students must pass a Spanish test, like in North Carolina, before they can graduate. In other words, Americans are fed up with having to cater to those who do not respect our borders, our laws, and our culture.
In Los Angeles, 90% of the murder warrents are for illegals.
Are we facing another civil war?
I agree with your concerns.
I want to see the borders controlled. It has gotten to be too much to control, and now their radical politics are a concern as well.
We have a right to control our borders and decide who gets to become a citizen.
I do think that people who live and work here should get to become citizens if they learn English, are not criminals, and have courses in citizenship. It should take some years and be a reward.
All immigrants should have their identities and criminal records checked.
I think if we all had a national ID card it would help. Then employers would know who is a citizen. Also, it would keep non-citizens from voting.
La Raza on one side and that nut case Tancredo on the other. What a pair.
I was in Oklahoma a few days after Tim McVeigh blew up the Federal building, he was a white man, a citizen and a veteran.
There will always be crazy and extreme people, the KKK, the Aryan Brotherhood, the Black Panthers, Farakhan, and the list goes on.
One reason I gave up TV news was that the media just feeds off this stuff. We need to be practical and come up with long term solutions that deal with the problem. La Raza is a poltical organization, but these folks are not indicative of most of the people who come here looking for work.
Really, Terrye? La Raza is not indicative of the attitude of those who come here? According to a recent Zogby Poll conducted in Mexico, 58% of Mexican nationals agree with Atzlan. And 59% think they should have the right to come into the U.S. without permission.
And tell me something, why do you on the left (and you are on the left of most issues) do you always use McVeigh as an example? And maybe you should read “The Third Terrorist”. Nothing like a good cover up to get the Clinton machine in high gear.
Retire:
I voted a straight Republican ticket for the last several elections but if that is not good enough for you I guess I could vote Democrat, would you prefer that?
Is the same Zogby that said American soldiers in Iraq had terrible morale and did not support the mission and who swore John Kerry would win?
I am sure that a lot of Mexicans have cultural pride. In fact I am sure that a lot Irish Americans gave support to the IRA but that does not mean that millions of Irish Americans are terrorists. I am sure that a lot of folks in Hawaii think they are still Polynesian and not Anglo. I am sure a lot of Cajun in Louisiana still think of themselves just a little as French. So what? There are still people in the south who look at the north as an occupying nation. That does not mean they are going to start another civil war.
I bring up Tim McVeigh for the simple reason that it should be remembered that there are nutcases everywhere and if you look hard enough you can find them.
What pisses me off is that I suuport tougher border control and security, I support limiting immigration, I support assimilation and I don’t want to see an open border policy. But unless I include some insult to hispanics and evidence a desire to load up millions of people in cattle cars at gun point and dump them out somewhere I am leftist.
Fine run me and other moderates off, run the Hispanics off, run anyone who does not fit your narrow little view of what America is supposed to be like off and see how many elections you win.
Look Terrye, lets be honest here. You brought up McVeigh because that is what you do. You use one instance to prove a point. How about this? 90% of all murder warrents in L.A. are for illegals. That is more than one. 50% of all incarcerated in California jails are illegals. That is more than one.
Seen many Arcadia flags flying in Louisiana lately? Don’t think so.
I have never asked you to insult illegals of any nationality. Don’t don’t try that carnard.
I don’t want to run off Republicans. I just want another Operation Wetback. How’s that. You broke the law now go back to your own nation and break the law.
And until you live with the adverse affects of illegal immigration every day like I do, don’t play the bleating heart.
Tell me when you move down on the Rio Grande.
Retire:
You know why I was in Oklahoma? Because of my Grandmother’s 90thbirthday, I was borne and raised there. My cousin was hurt in the blast when the windows at the Hyat Regency blew in. Tim McVeigh was a bad man, I would not be surprised to find out he was working with someone from the Middle East, not at all.
Operations Wetback. That is nice, crossing the border illegally is a misdemeanor and I am not saying it is ok, but it does warrant the death penalty. So let’s be honest here. Put that on a bumper sticker, operation wetback, and see what happens to Repulicans in the next election.
So what are you saying, that areas where there are no hispanics are free of crime? Obviously not and I am not saying it is ok for these people to cross the border and kill people. But I have known some hispanics that were good decent people, in fact many of them are in our armed services and using a phrase like wetback is meant to insult them all.
So how about we forget the insults and come up with a rational workable solution that solves the problem? Too hard for you to do that?
that should be ‘does not warrant the death penalty’. sheesh.
I would only be in favor of expelling people who refuse to follow the law we will pass. Immigrants should respect our laws if they want to be here. Residency is a privilege, not a right.
If the law says they should come forward and be registered so that we know who is here—then they should follow the law. If I go to Europe, they take my passport and register me with the police. They want to know who is in their country. I have to follow their rules. I am a guest in their country.
We need to know who is here. And we need to really limit further immigration until we have a chance to assimilate people here.
I don’t think we have to keep people who advocate the SW going back to Mexico. They are not citizens and they are advocating the dismantling of the country.
I paid for a S. American friend to get her citizenship, but she wanted to be American. She learned English, works, pays taxes. Of course, she still has attachments to her customs and former country, but mainly she is American. It costs almost 400 dollars to get citizenship.
I read that they may fine people 3000 dollars for being here illegally. How can working people get that much money–especially if they have a family? Perhaps this could be paid for in installments.
People who are here legally should not have to pay, of course.
I am against expelling millions of people, but I don’t think we need to be shy about expelling people who don’t agree to abide the rules we will be making for legal residency and who commit crimes.