Apr 26 2011
My Final Post On Birther Madness
Sorry for the limited posting – was siidelined this weekend, but now on the mend. I also apologize for this tough love post, but I feel I need to point out that some of our allies have their mental zipper down in public.
One way to demonstrate you may not have the common sense to vote intelligently this election cycle is continually falling for the trap set by the left to snare lazy thinkers on the right – i.e., Obama’s birth certificate nonsense. When this silliness broke out I weighed in on all the BS and determined quite quickly and easily that the whole fake COLB thing was all about technical ignorance by some and not about the US Constitution.
I am gratified to look back today and see that no one is still grasping at the idea the COLB (Certificate of Live Birth – which the modern the template in Hawaii for a birth certificate) was forged. It was ignorance driven then, and is still ignorance driven. Of all the good reasons to fire our inexperienced, left wing President, this topic is not one of them.
However, today we see the silly headline that people do not believe Obama was born in the US – like that makes one bit of difference to his citizenship:
Still, in the USA TODAY poll, only 38% of Americans say Obama definitely was born in the USA, and 18% say he probably was. Fifteen percent say he probably was born in another country, and 9% say he definitely was born elsewhere.
You would think conservatives, long considered rubes by the liberal intelligentsia, would learn to see a trap painting them as rubes. The tally from this poll is 66% believe Obama was or may have been born in American, and a bizarre group of 24% think not. No one won an election with 24% of the vote.
Who cares anyway? The point about Obama’s citizenship has been and will always be about who is mother was, not where she was. She is an undisputed American. Therefore her children are natural born Americans (location has nothing to do with it, just ask any American born in international waters, international air space or in foreign countries). Obama is an American because of his mother – end of story.
I am a proud southern boy. I can throw on my slow, southern accent when needed. One thing about southerners is we love to use a slow accent to lull liberal northerners into thinking our slow speech indicates a slow mind. It is sometimes too easy to give the impression of a slow mind to an arrogant liberal.
Somehow, this birther nonsense just seems to be more slow mind than slow tongue. It seems to confirm a thick head, not simply be playing on as a ruse.
Count me out of this. And trust me when I say birthers and truthers are among the same misfits as moon landing deniers and flat earthers. You won’t find R-E-S-P-E-C-T down that path folks. Not from the left or right or center.
I agree that however this plays out, Obama is almost certainly a citizen. It would have taken a really weird, far reaching conspiracy to have had birth announcements posted in Hawaii if he was being born in some other country at the same time.
But… I also suspect that there is *something* – I don’t know what it is, but *something* – on the original records that he and his handlers are terrified of letting out. Maybe it’s that he was officially born white, maybe B.O. Sr. isn’t actually his father – there are lots of possibilities. I’m curious to see whether this book coming out in May actually has anything to reveal or is just another pile of poorly sourced innuendo and hype. If it’s just hype, that will probably be the end of the story. If not….
I would also like to see someone challenge Obama on his Columbia University records. I think they are sealed because he should have flunked out, since all he ever did there was hang out and smoke dope, but he got a “pass” on all his undone coursework because he had powerful sponsors, who also were the ones who got him into Harvard.
I can think of no other reason Obama would work so hard to keep any records relating to his undergrad career so secret.
Btw – if he had been Republican they would already have been leaked long ago.
I had somebody trying to convince me that we still do not know who his parents are and that he could have been adopted. Yeah…that argument that Stanley could not have been his birth mother.
I kept insisting that we do know who his parents are and that he was born in Hawaii.
wws, someone should challenge his Occidental records, too. And his childbearing years…what kind of influence was place on his life. After all many have issues with his actions and statements regarding religion.
Strange that his past is quite a mystery. I don’t think we’ve ever had a president with the kind of past that Obama has.
Sorry AJ but you are wrong on that one. They are citizens but NOT natural born citizens unless the foreign location is ‘effective US territory’ such as a military base in Panama or at a US embassy posting.
A natural born citizen has to be born in the US or on territory that is considered sovereign US territory if overseas.
For example if you are a qualified resident of Hawaii and you are on vacation in Japan and birth a child the child can get a Hawaiian COLB but they are NOT a natural born citizen just a citizen without the natural born qualification.
My position is that of a strict constructionist in that solid proof on natural born citizenship is mandated by the Constitution. At the current time there is not a law stating when and where that proof must be presented. By custom only the Speaker of the House certifies to the Electoral College that the candidates meet the constitutional requirements.
As to the particular case of Obama my belief he was born in Hawaii and is a natural born citizen but from my research I believe the father listed on the Long Form Record of Birth is not the one listed on the COLB.
Lurker
The issue with his mother is that she had not lived in Hawaii long enough after her threshold requirement birth age to be full considered a resident of Hawaii.
So therefore technically she should have gotten a birth certificate for her son from the prior state she had residency requirements met.
There is some doubt the family lived long enough in Washington state to meet residency requirements and if so then the residency would have been from Kansas.
WWS
Even if Obama was a citizen or a natural born citizen at birth since he moved to Indonesia as a child that raises other issues.
Indonesia has never recognized dual citizenship.
So for him to enter school there he must give up his US citizenship and become listed as a citizen of Indonesia. Only such things as US military and Embassy staff are exempt from this (and usually have their own schools in any event).
The question is did he actually give up his US citizenship or just adopt the Indonesian one but never fully met their requirement of single citizenship.
So therefore when Obama came back to the US he would have had to apply for regaining his US citizenship status but then would have the issue of broken citizenship which the constitution does not address since it only deals with the circumstances of his birth.
I’m a southerner, born and raised in Georgia, I have a southern accent, I have a good mind, I’m not a slow thinker.
I’m not a birther, I’m a US citizen that believes in the Constitution.
Obama has a British father, therefore he can not be a ‘natural born citizen’.
Obama apparently gave up his citizenship to become an indonesian, therefore he is not a natural born citizen.
WWS said:
“I would also like to see someone challenge Obama on his Columbia University records. I think they are sealed because he should have flunked out, since all he ever did there was hang out and smoke dope, but he got a “pass” on all his undone coursework”
Where did you get this information? Not one person has ever come forward and said they were in a class with Obama. He apparently never attended ANY class there. If so, someone should be able to remember. Just one.
Even casual observance of the circumstances of the CERTIFICATION of LB would easily, very easily, reveal it to be a forgery. But since it does not have a seal from the State, it obviously wasn’t certified. minor point. My birth certificate has a raised certification seal.
Where was he born, I sure don’t know and I’m not really sure Obama knows, but it doesn’t matter, he is not now and will never be a natural born US citizen and therefore is not now and will never be eligible to be the president of the US.
I suspect by the end of the month of May, many secrets will no longer be secret.
But that’s just my opinion.
HHHMMM…perhaps we’ll have another day of Wikileaks that will finally reveal the details about Obama’s birth and college years?
Merlin says:
“By custom only the Speaker of the House certifies to the Electoral College that the candidates meet the constitutional requirements.”
It is no surprise that Pelosi would have no qualms certifying Obama. Now for 2012, I think that Boehner HAS to certify him by de facto.
So, Redteam, we’ll always have the “Bush stealing the elections” AND now “Obama never qualified as our US President” theories, huh?
Lurker, yep, I think you got that right. But then what’s wrong with having a few good theories running around, gives us commenters something to write about. Now I find out that the Civil war wasn’t about slavery or states rights, it was all about the European bankers wanted us ‘divided’ so they could maintain control of the money.
I think the Social Security Number issue is going to be big.
Wonder who created this “Mombasian Candidate”?
We’ll know one day……….
A little time frame context here.
As I said my personal research indicates that Obama SR was not his birth father and someone else was. I have my suspicions of that but no smoking gun proof.
Remember he was born in 1961 a year in which some state still did not allow inter racial marriage.
It is my belief that Obama’s father was a married Black male and that Obama Sr just did a sham marriage to give Obama’s mother coverage for back then. This is why he found it so easy to leave in a couple years because he thought he had performed his part and given her cover for not being an unwed mother.
Now when Obama’s mother passed he was already in the race for his first run at the US House of Representatives (a race he lost) and had already established the story line of his family history with his Kenyan ‘father’.
Now in one of his books he talks of going through his mothers effects (he did not even attend her funeral) and came across a copy of his long form birth record which was still issued back then. This was before COLBs came into existence. The reason you can tell it was the long form is because he quotes his birth weight which is not included in the subset of data used to create a COLB.
So I suggest that Obama now noted a different birth father on the copy he had and he simply chose not to upset the apple cart and have to back track on the history narrative he had already established.
Forget the birth certificate, release the college transcripts.
Merlin, I suspect you’re correct about the birth father. The possibility that he was the son of a married black man who Obama’s mother was having an affair with is a strong one; as you say, it would explain why Barak Sr. had no interest at all in the boy for the rest of his life.
There is an error with your thoughts about his possible Indonesian citizenship; in our system, a child under 18 does not have the legal capacity to make irrevocable legal decisions. Meaning that even if he *did* agree to forfeit his US citizenship as a child (and there’s no evidence that this happened) then that decision would have been easily voided with a simple signed statement at the age of 18, and full citizenship would be restored as though it had never lapsed. (that’s why you never sell a car on credit to a 17 year old – all contracts with a minor can be voided at will)
Also, Indonesia’s laws on the matter are irrelevant, because foreign countries legal requirements are not binding on US courts. (not yet, anyways) Indonesia can do say whatever it wants, only US law has bearing on Obama’s citizenship.
A final note – you brought up the issue of dual citizenship, and although I note that you did *not* say this, many people seem to think that there is something illegal about it.
Dual Citizenship is completely legal in the United States, and there is no bar to office because of it. In fact, it is quite common, more common than most people realize. It may be politically damaging, but it is completely legal.
WWS:
“Meaning that even if he *did* agree to forfeit his US citizenship as a child (and there’s no evidence that this happened) then that decision would have been easily voided with a simple signed statement at the age of 18,” (and there’s also no evidence that this happened either)
In either case, I agree with you on this. But I suspect if the records are revealed from Occidental, you’ll find that he attended on a foreigner entitlement program so it wouldn’t have been in his interest to ‘re-declare’ himself to have ‘always been an American”
Crosspatch: I agree, release the college transcripts. I predict you’ll find out that no Barack H. Obama ever attended Occidental (he was using a different name at the time) and that person basically flunked out.
Columbia, no records at all, he never attended.
Harvard: You’ll definitely never get the truth from here. He graduated Magna, ha, ha, excuse me while I laugh, ha, ha. Magna, too good. All with no transcript from any other school as his basis for admission. Harvard can’t have them, they don’t exist. A real knee slapper. Here’s a magna that never wrote a paper for the Law Review which he was editor of, excuse me, that’s just too good. Someone should do a study of how many Editors of the Harvard Law Review never wrote anything published in them. Would be interesting, I’d bet.
Crosspatch
I agree the college records could be important. Especially if he never reapplied for reestablishment of his citizenship after Indonesia.
Some have suggested he attempted to gain foreign student status and scholarships and that was the reason he works so hard to keep all those records locked up.
WWS
Now his parents could have revoked his citizenship and assumed on for Indonesia only but unless they filed to revoke his citizenship here it would still have been considered current no matter what occurred while he was there.
The potential citizenship status issue comes back later in life when he made to trip to Pakistan with friends (who later worked on his Presidential campaign). At the time US people were mostly forbidden to travel to Pakistan due to the ongoing fighting in Afghanistan with Russia and OBL was based in Pakistan at the time. Some suggested that he made that trip on an Indonesian passport to get around that restriction.
As far as dual citizenship goes most countries require you to choose single citizenship at the age of 18 or 21.
Bill Whittle goes through most of his early history
Barak Obama the Enigma, Part I: Strange Bedfellows
I do not see what is wrong with the desire to ask for his documentation, which he has NOT ever provided.
Everything, including college records.
This type of request (to refrain from asking for the documents) reminds me of the libs request that we should not question their patriotism while they were actively involved in undermining our troops during times of war…
“As far as dual citizenship goes most countries require you to choose single citizenship at the age of 18 or 21.”
The US is not one of those countries. Neither is Israel, and many Jews have joint US-Isreali citizenship. (which irritates the arabs to no end)
dbostan said: “I do not see what is wrong with the desire to ask for his documentation.”
oh, that’s because it’s RACIST! RACIST!!!! At least that’s what Cokie Roberts thinks.
My oh my…this thread has been active; yet, the previous threads were inactive. Guess many people are interested in Obama’s questionable past than the other stuff, huh?
I see that the WI Democratic Party is harassing the petition signers. This should have been enough to turn people away from the Democratic Party but alas, no.
What do you think of this report about economists predicting that the gas prices will stabilize by this summer and everything will be rosy, including the economy … bouncing back even more?
These economists…are they working for Obama?
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/leading-economists-predict-good-news-gas-prices-to-drop-and-stabilize-by-summer/ – LEADING ECONOMISTS PREDICT: GOOD NEWS! GAS PRICES TO DROP AND STABILIZE BY SUMMER
Nah….I don’t think so….
“GAS PRICES TO DROP AND STABILIZE BY SUMMER”
That is the sort of misinformation that gets put out in order to prop up an unpopular Democrat.
So they will say that prices are to stabilize in order to keep people from getting upset right now … because, you know, they will be down by Memorial Day or something.
But then Memorial Day rolls around and gas prices will be “unexpectedly” higher and they will find something on which to cast the blame.
It is just plain silly and most people these days are seeing right through it.
“The AP survey collected the views of 42 private, corporate and academic economists ”
I want to know exactly who those economists are. Why do they not list their names? I can not judge the article unless I know who was polled and by what margin they came to this conclusion. If it was by a margin of only one person, that would be different than if they came to this conclusion unanimously.
The article really says:
“We polled a group of 42 economists but we aren’t going to tell you who they are or any details of the actual poll, you are just going to have to trust our analysis of the poll”.
Which basically means “we made this story up”. Because they got to pick the economists being polled, they got to pick the questions, and they got to do the analysis of the results. So the bottom line is the story is useless because it is a fabrication by AP from the start.