Mar 25 2012
New Wrinkle In Trayvon Martin Killing While Leftwing Nuts Go Crazy
As I noted yesterday, the tragedy surrounding the death of young Trayvon Martin is about to be eclipsed by left wing political vultures looking for any reason to get in the news. The worst offenders now being the New Black Panther Party, coming out with their tired old racism:
And in Sanford, Florida, a handful of members from the New Black Panther Party rallied and offered a $10,000 reward for Zimmerman’s “capture.”
“It’s time for us, as black men, to take justice in our own hands. If you won’t give us justice, we will have to take justice,” said Florida organizer Mikhail Muhammad. “An eye for an eye. A life for a life.”
The New Black Panther Party, which the Southern Poverty Law Center describes as a “virulently racist and anti-Semitic organization,” …
Yeah, that’s what we need – more vigilantes like George Zimmerman. What we need is to let the authorities work out what happened. Justice is slow, but usually it works.
A lot of news outlets are wrongfully claiming that the anonymous witness stated that Trayvon Martin attacked Zimmerman. Everything I saw only noted the witness stating that Trayvon was winning the hand-to-hand fighting. I have not seen anything beyond conjecture to bolster this idea that he started the fight.
But in the above referenced article I did read a detail that bolsters the idea that Trayvon had a right to feel threatened by this unknown stalker – in a truck:
Zimmerman said he was driving in his gated community when he saw Martin walking and called 911 to report a suspicious person.
Zimmerman told the dispatcher he was following the boy, but the dispatcher told him that wasn’t necessary. Moments later, several neighbors called 911 to report a commotion outside, and police arrived to find Martin dead of a gunshot wound.
….
Sanford police said Zimmerman did not indicate a chase, telling them instead that “he had lost sight of Trayvon and was returning to his truck to meet the police officer when he says he was attacked by Trayvon,” the police said in the letter posted by Bonaparte.
Emphasis mine. So initially Zimmerman is following Trayvon in his truck. That is pretty nerve racking as it is, especially alone at night. Could have been gangs, could have been a nut – who knows. That would make me nervous – no doubt.
But then Zimmerman gets out of his truck – with his gun (he does not leave it in the truck). Is his gun drawn? Who knows.
He goes looking for Trayvon – since he indicates ‘he had lost sight of Trayvon”. Clearly Trayvon hid from Zimmerman – tried to stay away. But Zimmerman keeps coming, now on foot. And so Trayvon attacks his stalker – a bad decision, but no worse than Zimmerman’s decision to continue pursuit when police told him to back off. Now it seems evident that Trayvon had clearly tried to be left alone by hiding.
We only have Zimmerman’s word he was jumped by a hidden Trayvon, not that he had cornered and threatened Trayvon into action. But I say it again – if Zimmerman had just stayed in his truck, Trayvon would still be alive.
I still say Zimmerman escalated this into a disaster. I have seen his type before and they love the ego boost of playing sheriff. But he was not trained, and he got into a scuffle with a young kid. Then killed him.
Agree with your take completely, AJ. As someone with a CCP, I can say that Zimmerman violated almost every rule of common sense in how he handled himself here. (Not to mention CCP regulations) Meanwhile, Trayvon was an idiot, if not legally, then practically, for skulking through a neighborhood and then jumping a man who may or may not have been armed.
It’s logical to conclude that Zimmerman’s gun wasn’t drawn when he was on foot, because in that case either Trayvon was suicidal (jumping a guy with a drawn weapon?) and/or Zimmerman was confused and slow. (allowing an unarmed guy to jump you when you’ve got a drawn weapon)
There’s an old saying, bad cases make bad law, and this is a bad case all the way around – meaning there is very little good to be derived from this on any account. Both men acted idiotically, and one is dead and one has a ruined life as a result. And the rest of us are stuck with a stinky turd of a racial football to kick around.
A CCP is not a license to be a Junior G-Man, not even if you’re on neighborhood watch. There was no excuse for Zimmerman to ever leave his locked car, but he did. That was his observation post, that’s where he could report any activity to the police. Even if he saw someone breaking into a house, then it was his job to stay in that car and report what he saw in real-time while the police came – because even police know you *Never* confront a potentially armed suspect (that’s what Zimmerman was thinking) unless you’ve got backup.
It was pure folly for Zimmerman to leave his car and go looking for the guy on foot in these circumstances. If it was because he had lost sight of him, he needed to recognize that the situation had already escalated out of his control. This is the point where Professionals call for backup, while wannabe heroes either get murdered or become murderers.
But suppose Zimmerman felt he *had* to go out on foot, because of some imminent threat to life and safety. Then he needed to have his hand on his weapon, ready to warn whoever he confronted at the very first sighting that he was armed and prepared to use it. (better flip that safety off, too) In those circumstances, he should never have allowed anyone within 10 feet of him without warning them that he was armed and prepared to use the weapon. If he was jumped from behind, well that just goes to show how idiotic it is to charge into an uncontrolled situation without backup. That’s how people, even foolhardy police officers, get killed – they go in without backup, a perp jumps them from behind, grabs their gun, and pops them in the head with their own weapon. That sad story has happened hundreds of times, and anyone who wants to chase a suspect needs to have that on the top of their minds constantly.
Foolish people think having a CCP will give them respect or bolster their self-confidence – nonsense. Personally, I have it because there are times when I’ve had to carry several thousand in cash through a bad part of town, and I’ve worried about someone trying to block my car in while they jump me. It’s a dangerous and serious responsibility.
The practical rules of carrying a weapon:
1) don’t wear it unless you’re ready to draw it.
2) don’t draw it unless you’re ready to fire.
3) don’t fire unless you’re ready and willing to kill.
and all 3 of those decisions need to be made before you pick that gun up, Ignoring them will not only get you in trouble, it could get you killed.
If someone hits my side window with a tire iron, my decision’s already made, but otherwise I’m going to strive to stay out of bad situations. A weapon is there to protect you from situations beyond your control, not to allow you to charge into dangerous situations foolishly.
First, I basically agree with both of you, AJ and WWS, but then I’ll point out that WWS used the word ‘if’ several times. while AJ didn’t use that word much, he did write in a presumptive mode, a step at a time as likely actions that probably or may have happened. In either case, investigations should continue until either enough evidence is gathered to charge someone with something or end the investigation.
Now here’s where WWS went a little astray. “As someone with a CCP, I can say that Zimmerman violated almost every rule of common sense in how he handled himself here.”
a couple questions here. Does having a CCP give persons ‘special insight’? And where does your certainty that Zimmerman violated ‘any rule’ at all come from? As I said, throughout your comment you use the word ‘if’ and state that you don’t know what happened, but here you jump to a certainty that he did what you ‘assume’ he did.
“Both men acted idiotically” and you ‘know’ this how? then you say ‘if’ he did this or ‘if’ he did that, etc. Can we go with reasonable doubt here?
I have no ‘special knowledge’ of what went on except that it appears to be a fact that Zimmerman killed Martin with a firearm on that day. It may have been a tragedy or it might not, depending on what happened. Let me ask you WWS, “If someone hits my side window with a tire iron, my decision’s already made,” would that be a tragedy or just an expected outcome under the circumstances.
At this point, we don’t know if Martin hit Zimmerman’s window with a tire iron or not and I’m not speculating that he did or did not. That’s the situation here. We don’t know and we need to rely on police officials to find the truth wherever it lies.
The big fly in the ointment is that Trayvon was an adolescent while Zimmerman is an adult. Anyone having teenage children knows that they, more often than not, have large voids of good judgement, are risk-takers, and think they are much smarter than they really are. Add up all the immaturity, and you get a stupid act like jumping someone following you, who happens to have a loaded gun.
RT:
At least in my state you have to go thru a permitting process for a CCP which includes a mandatory course which is heavy in firearms safety and legal standards. So someone who carries concealed most definitely had a greater insight than the regular Joe.
The one thing they drum into your head is that you should only draw your weapon in a life or death situation and even then, if you use it, you may find yourself on the wrong side of the law – depending on circumstances.
So Zimmerman, by playing sherriff, by carrying his weapon, by following someone when told it was unneeded, by moving himself into the situation, acted like an idiot.
As for Martin, by not doing everything in his power to avoid the confrontation and slip away (whatever his motivation) acted foolishly (OK, not like an idiot).
The black panther led ‘lynch mob’ is horrific. The Al Sharpton, Jessie Jackson talk is racist and divisive. The MSM reporting is corrupt. It is easily understood that there is a call to justice in that Zimmerman should be charged. The evidence needs to be heard and a proper justice served.
It was a tragic thing on both parts.
The only thing that makes me think Zimmerman was approached and attacked by Martin is the extended 911 call that seems to support his story. He was still on the 911 call when the altercation took place. He was told to stop following Martin. He says “okay”. The conversation with the 911 operator then goes to where he can meet the police. There is a lengthy conversation about that. Then he says he sees Martin again. His voice is calm. He says that Martin is coming towards him and that he doesn’t know what this guy’s story is (or something like that). Nothing else is said until you hear the fight and screams. But, AJ is right in that we don’t know whether Zimmerman had pulled his gun out making Martin in fear of his life after what appeared to be a guy following him, etc. On the other hand, Zimmerman’s screams sound like he was terrified while being attacked. We have yet to know what the full story of that eye witness is, also. Did he see a gun during the struggle, etc?
Did the police impound the firearm? Has there been tests run on the firearm? How many shots were fired? Is Zimmerman telling the truth? Does his story line up with the ballistic tests? Did they do ballistic tests?
I’ve been involved in criminal cases and the police or DA should know if Zimmerman’s statement agrees with the physical evidence. They should know by now if he is lying to cover his butt. What are the results of the autopsy? Was there an autopsy? So many questions and only 911 calls and unreliable media reports to go on.
CBS is doing renditions that are full of at least 20 lies.
This case seems to be in trouble because it has been a justifiable homicide for so long that to try this case as manslaughter would be risky, unless there is some physical evidence that will nail Zimmerman.
A large number of black teen and early 20’s men are lost to gun shots. Why did this one get national attention? And why all the speculation when the investigation isn’t finished?
Change of topic:
Carbon Dioxide Just saved the earth.
Solar Storm Dumps Gigawatts into Earth’s Upper Atmosphere
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2012/22mar_saber/
(Via Don Surber’s blog: http://blogs.dailymail.com/donsurber/archives/53325#more-53325)
Layman, let me see if I understand you. Anyone getting a CCP is granted special insight to be able to “can say that Zimmerman violated almost every rule of common sense in how he handled himself here.”
So shouldn’t every jurisdiction in the country be required to automatically issue CCP’s to everyone so that everyone can have this ‘special insight’ ability to know what went on in a situation that even the police at this stage of the investigation are not prepared to state beyond a doubt.
I had never heard that I should get a CCP if for no other reason than I would get a ‘special insight’ that I can get no other way. I’d better get on down and apply right away then maybe I can see when people are violating other people’s rights that I wouldn’t be able to see otherwise. Will I get the insight when I apply or do I actually have to get the CCP first?
Now I think the point you were trying to make, but strayed from, was that you might have a better insight into the thinking behind having a firearm for self defense and the conditions that can result from this activity. But you strayed into explaining what went on in this case, when no one else is prepared to state exactly what happened other than you and WWS. (because of this ‘special insight’ deal.
If this ‘insight’ is so good, why wasn’t Zimmerman privy to it? Maybe he ‘thought’ he had ‘special insight’ because it comes with a CCP, but is now surprised that was the victim of a bait and switch. How did he miss out when it is apparently a ‘universal’ thing that comes with a CCP. If he had had this: “The one thing they drum into your head is that you should only draw your weapon in a life or death situation” maybe he, in fact, did just that; draw his weapon in a life or death situation.
Surely having the ‘special insight’ that comes with a CCP would have worked with you, with WWS, and, of course, with Zimmerman.
I’m not prepared to say what Zimmerman did or did not do, you should not either because I think your special insight is not really all that ‘special’.
Layman, I hope you have a sense of humor, but I really think we should let the police continue their investigation and see where it leads and hope that maybe some of them have a CCP (with special insight) and can really determine what happened.
Trayvon Martin shooting timeline leaves many unanswered questions
http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/trayvon-martin-shooting-timeline-leaves-many-unanswered-questions.php?page=2
Unanswered questions remain
The chain of events both before and after Trayvon’s death leave numerous unanswered questions.
Did police retrieve Trayvon’s cell phone at the scene of the shooting, and if so, why didn’t they didn’t use it to try to identify him by calling some of the numbers, one of which would have appeared as a call taking place at the same time as the incident? Why wouldn’t they scroll through the contacts, looking for “mom” or “dad”?
That phone hasn’t been seen since. The family says police never gave it to them. Trayvon’s father located his girlfriend by retrieving his son’s call logs online.
Why didn’t police retain Zimmerman’s grass stained clothes as evidence?
Did they perform a toxicology test on him, as they did on Trayvon, and if not, why not?
Did investigators run even a routine background check on Zimmerman before determining the shooting was justified? Once they decided he acted in self-defense, they had to release him. But why not conduct a thorough investigation of him before making that determination? Zimmerman’s past history, including a 2005 charge of assault on an officer is readily available online. Did police look for it?
I’m applying tomorrow. Will the heavens open up and angels sing when the ‘special insight’ is bestowed. Will the sun shine all day? I can hardly wait…….
Frogg, good questions.
I asked about the cell phone earlier. It has been stated on the news that he was talking with his girl friend when all this occurred, but it was also stated that he only had a box of skittles and a canned ice tea drink on him when it occurred. It appears the cell phone is missing, but is it? It may be in the possession of the police, it may not.
Maybe they did retain Zimmermans clothes, we don’t know.
If you watch all these Cop shows on tv, they usually have to have some credible evidence that someone has committed a crime before they can charge them. This is a case of a death so there will be no statute of limitations. If they ever get the evidence, they can arrest him.
Just curious, do all jurisdiction have all crimes committed available ‘on line’ as you stated Zimmerman’s is? I’ve never heard of that being available. This was a case where he was not found guilty of anything, so why would they have it listed ‘on line’.
This case is simply taking too many twists and turns. Here is yet another more sympathetic version of Zimmerman, from Reuters.
I think this tragedy has become so politicized and racially polarized that it will be difficult to attain the truth, and have people actually believe it.
As Media Reports Conflict, Why Was Trayvon Martin Photo Altered?
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2012/03/why-was-trayvon-martin-photo-altered.html
article also states:
A local news video report supports much of the above. It claims prosecutors advised police they did not have enough evidence to win a manslaughter conviction.
Lynch George Zimmerman! [Reader Post]
http://floppingaces.net/2012/03/25/lynch-george-zimmerman-reader-post/
excerpt:
Based on the eyewitness accounts and Zimmerman’s injuries one could believe that Zimmerman pulled the gun as a last resort. Or maybe there was a struggle for the gun:
The death weapon was a Kel-Tec PF9 semiautomatic 9mm pistol. It has been reported that the gun was recovered with a full magazine and that only the chambered round had been fired. This is a condition we associate with something preventing the gun from cycling a fresh round from the magazine into the chamber after the shot was discharged. One thing that can cause that is another man’s hand wrapped around the pistol, retarding its slide mechanism. This would indicate, as could certain gunshot residue patterns or cuts in certain places if found on Trayvon Martin’s hand(s), that a struggle for a gun was taking place when the fatal shot was fired. This would clearly change the shape of the case. But – WE DON’T KNOW YET.
This event does require investigation, but given the fever that grips many right now what happens if Zimmerman is vindicated? Is it too much to ask for the facts to come to light before people are condemned? There is no end to the irony of race hustlers looking to lynch a man before his guilt is established.
Very good points, Frogg1!
We also have a witness that Zimmerman was on the ground with Travvon beating on him. The pleas for help that were heard on the 911 recording are Zimmerman screaming for help.
But if there is a national lynch mob being formed, the witness might now fear for his own safety. Spike Lee tweeted Zimmerman’s home address twice today. How must Zimmerman’s wife feel? She didn’t do anything. She’s probably scared to death.
Zimmerman’s face was bloodied, he had grass stains on the back of his shirt consistent with Zimmerman’s story and that of the witness.
I have found myself being taken for an emotional ride by the Martin/Zimmerman case. When it first erupted in the news, my sympathies leaned towards the victim, especially since he was so young. But, as more and more details have seeped out, there are definitely extenuating circumstances present, in which multiple scenarios could be played out, shifting the blame to either one or the other or both of the men involved.
However, no matter what happens, like Frogg said, the incident has become almost too inflamed for rational thought or an honest investigation to be implemented.
As for the complicity of the police, I heard a Florida police spokeswoman say last night that the police have to release someone if an action was said to have been taken in self defense. So, maybe this is why Zimmerman was released so fast……
RT:
Sorry, can’t respond. If I say what I think about your drift into the absurd AJ will ban me. Enjoy your truculence.