May 04 2012
Zimmerman’s Excuses Falling Apart
A good (but not perfect) tell for when someone is trying to cover up is how they ‘refine’ their story over time. And apparently someone is trying to refine Zimmerman’s claim that 17 year old Trayvon Martin – armed with a bag of Skittles – was a threat to George Zimmerman and, therefore, had to be killed. Here’s the new twist being ‘leaked’ to the media:
George Zimmerman told investigators that while he was on the phone with a Sanford police dispatcher reporting Trayvon Martin as suspicious, the teenager was circling his vehicle on foot, a source familiar with the investigation told the Orlando Sentinel.
The source said Zimmerman’s account of events hasn’t changed in his several statements to police — in which he said he was so unnerved by the teen’s behavior that he rolled up his window to avoid a confrontation.
I call BS on this. If George Z is so damn wigged out by Trayvon, why did he get out of his truck? Why did he reject the dispatcher’s direction to not follow Martin? Why was he so angry when he said over the 9-11 call:
“These assholes they always get away”
Is this why he grabbed his gun? So scared he rolled up the window, then grabbed his gun and chased the suspect behind buildings – out of sight of most people?
This is complete incoherence in terms of a rationale for an unnecessary death. A death that would have been avoided if George Zimmerman did not try and play policeman and chase Martin into a confrontation he ended up losing – until he pulled the gun and killed a good kid.
Sorry, but this little trial balloon is not helping Zimmerman at all. The story goes on to shoot (no pun intended) more holes in Zimmerman’s quickly concocted excuse:
One of those inconsistencies: Zimmerman told police Trayvon had his hand over Zimmerman’s mouth during their fight on the night he shot Trayvon.
The Sentinel’s source confirmed that Zimmerman’s statements include that allegation. But authorities do not believe that happened, the source told the Sentinel, because on one 911 call, someone can be heard screaming for help. If it were Zimmerman, as he claims, his cries were not muffled, the source said.
Zimmerman also told police, the source told the Sentinel, that while the two were on the ground, Trayvon reached for Zimmerman’s gun, and the two struggled over it.
Those portions of Zimmerman’s account are not corroborated by other evidence, the source said.
I have always suspected the calls for help began when Zimmerman threatened Martin with his gun and Martin realized he was in real trouble. The right to stand your ground conveys to Martin as much as Zimmerman. More so if one realizes a kid being tracked by some lune in a truck is more threatening than a kid eating candy in a hoody. Who was experiencing the more threatening scenario?
Zimmerman is trying to claim it is him, but each time he does he argues against why he got out of the truck with his gun. Martin had the right to stand his ground – and Zimmerman killed him when he did.
Whew, AJ, you’ve really got your mind made up, haven’t you. BTW, have you ever personally been involved in a criminal-type confrontation before?
The reason I ask, is that my husband and I have been, years ago now. What I do remember, is that events happen very fast. Decisions are made at quick silver speed, more by impressions of the moment, than on thoughtful reasoned facts, allowed by the luxury of time. Also, clear recollections become a little fuzzy and blurred — perhaps by the adreneline-dominated moments, that are governored more by emotions and the survival instinct, than by a prudent analysis of weighing all of one’s options.
So, while judging Zimmerman’s recollections (which is really all we have, as Martin is deceased), it would be exercising a fair-minded approach, IMO, to wait for greater clarity about the events, rather than continuing on with what amounts to nothing but spectator speculation.
Jan,
Gimme me a break. You don’t like me to comment (while you do all over the place) because I don’t see Zimmerman as a victim but as the perp.
I have been in many tense situations (have had a gunned pulled on me, one threatened to be pulled, a knife pulled). But beyond that my family has a deep legal background – so I understand the law and how it is applied EQUALLY.
So when Zimmerman claimed right to stand (when he actually was not standing) he reminds everyone Trayvon has the same rights. And – beyond all else – Zimmerman could have avoided getting in trouble by not playing vigilante. He had plenty of opportunities to stand back out of trouble.
AJ
My post had nothing to do with opposing your right to comment as you wish. I was simply observing that your POV seems “set-in-stone,” which kind of surprises me.
Also, my own reaction to this Zimmerman/Martin case is one of giving Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt, until all the pieces of the puzzle (what can be legitimately ascertained by the evidence) is put on the table. Isn’t that the basis for the American justice system — to be considered innocent until proven guilty?
So far, the evidence, IMO, has been out-shouted by hyperbole, racial emotion, subjective analysis of time-lines, motivations, personal backgrounds of both men, outdated photos etc. Even your description of Martin as a “good kid,” is telling. Martin was an adolescent, period. His “goodness,” as is Zimmerman’s, is not for us on the sidelines to objectively really know.
Bottom line….
the right thing to do is to take any media reports based on a mysterious “source” with a grain of salt.
The facts, inconsistencies, etc will only come out during the actual trial.
And, just because you don’t tell something to a 911 operator (in a two minute conversation) that you tell the police 30 minutes later during indepth quesitoning doesn’t mean it is an “inconsistency” does it?
A careful listening to the unredacted phone conversation between zimmerman and 911 along with the time line and the plot of the land, I can come to only one conclusion and that is that Martin was the attacker and Zimmerman was the defender. I understand that people differ in their opinions because they hear evidence differently. Had Martin only wanted to get home, he had time to do that about 3 different times but apparently didn’t choose to do so.
I have heard several times that Martin was on his cell phone to his girl friend, but when I see a list of articles he had on his person, it does not include a cell phone. I think that is strange. I also find it strange that the video from the 7-11 store does not show Martin as a customer. I guess we will know the answer to these questions if and when a jury trial is held. Til then, I think the presumption of innocent until proven guilty should prevail.
Redteam
Amen….
You continue to surprise (and disappoint) on this, AJ. I respect your opinions on so many things, but on this it does seem like you’ve dug in on one position. For whatever inconsistencies you’re saying about Zimmerman’s story, which hasn’t changed, and the unedited 911 tapes clearly support his version – which stops in its tracks the media, Sharpton, Jackson’s race baiting plan…
Anyway, Zimmerman has the right to a fair trial. We are not party to the details than any one else at this point.
Personally, I think this is much closer to the Duke Lacrosse case than a deliberate homicide, which you’ve painted Zimmerman into.
AJ:
I’ve got news for you my friend – people don’t always behave rationally and make wise decisions. If his behavior is the rationale for knowing that Zimmerman was the perp and his story a contrivance then your logic fails you my friend.
I’ve taken heat for my view that Zimmerman was responsible for initiating the confrontation because of his actions – so I’m with you up to that point. But beyond that its foolish to draw conclusions about “the perp”, and I don’t believe for a second that you’re foolish.
I wonder if all the circumstances surrounding the Zimmerman/Martin case were the same, except for the final outcome….. Instead of Martin being shot and killed, it was Zimmerman who ended up mortally wounded. How would people be looking (judging) the outcome? How would the external circumstances have changed — the public’s reaction, the view of who is the perp versus the victim, would Martin be out on a 100 thousand bail and in hiding?
My ‘speculation’ is that there would have been either no involvement of black race baiters (Sharpton, Jackson), or they would have rallied the black community on behalf of Martin’s innocence; the MSM would have found this story far less interesting, and any favoritism would have been on the side of the young, black shooter; Martin would have been remanded into the custody of his parents, being a minor; Martin would have been a hero to some (his peer group), but not denigrated by others as a racist shooter as Zimmerman has been painted. Martin and his family also would not be fearing for their lives, just looking to save Martin’s via the judicial system. And, at the end of the day, Martin’s sentence would have hinged first on his being a minor (unless he was tried as an adult), and second on what the evidence showed, as to which male instigated the physical assault first, which is also very similar to what Zimmerman’s fate will rely on).
Jan,
I could care less who carried the gun into a confrontation with a kid – they were wrong. You keep thinking its about race or age or something else. It’s about misuse of a gun in a non-critical situation.
Here in VA we have conceal carry laws, and STRINGENT use laws. If someone accidentally carries their gun on school property they are in trouble. The point being is we allow guns on the condition they are used correctly.
THIS is why I jumped on Zimmerman and his vigilante idiocy. He was/is a violence prone idiot with a gun who got into a conflict unnecessarily and caused a death.
Don’t politicize it and it is plain as day
Layman – ‘perp’ was tongue in cheek to a point.
His gun, he admits stalking and killing the kid. Not a big stretch there.
Penguin – evidence is evidence. It’s not like Zimmerman does not admit to stalking the kid, going against police direction or killing the kid.
His only excuse is he felt he was in danger – which is dumb as a rock. If he felt threatened then stay in the car as told and wait for police (who he KNEW were on the way).
The reason Zimmerman is ‘scared’ is he knew he screwed up. He went after Martin thinking the gun would control the situation (also dumb as a rock). He failed to realize a cornered kid, scared to death by the threat of a figure with a gun, might actually defend himself.
Zimmerman is an idiot. I mean dumb, dumb, dumb. And the fact I see that is not a problem with me. Maybe those blinded by the politics are the ones who should be questioning themselves.
Me? I am good an my conscience clear.
Redteam,
What a joke – Martin attacker?. Kid walking home talking to his girlfriend? What motive was there? He attempted to get away from Zimmerman in his truck and Zimmerman admits getting out of his truck (armed) and chasing the kid behind buildings! Attacking? Sounds like fleeing to me.
Zimmerman kept coming as Martin kept leaving.
Thank God you don’t try to practice law. Your ‘logic’ is down right stupid.
“Attacking? Sounds like fleeing to me.”
really? he had plenty of time to have ‘fled’ right by his apartment at least once and most likely twice in the period. At the time Zimmerman left his vehicle, Martin was within 30 seconds or less of his apartment door. it was several minutes later before the confrontation occurred. Wonder where he was, ‘cowering’ in the bushes, perhaps?
“gun into a confrontation with a kid” and he ‘knew’ he was a kid how? the ‘kid’ was over 6 foot tall and would probably feel insulted if someone called him a ‘kid’.
anyhow, all that is beside the point, he’ll never be convicted in a court with a jury unless someone has got one heck of a lot more evidence than we have had revealed via the news. (which is heavily biased, as always)
Where is that phone? One of the keys to the mystery…. why don’t we know the answer to that question? just wondering……
“Thank God you don’t try to practice law.” Thanks for the compliment. I never thought people should ‘practice’ a profession. I learned mine and applied it without ‘practice’.
AJ
There seem to be some foregone conclusions drawn by you in the details of the Zimmerman/Martin case.
1) You say that Zimmerman failed to heed the “don’t follow” advice of the 911 operator. However, his recorded response was, “ok,” which indicated he wasn’t contesting this directive. In fact, I don’t think it’s at all clear what Zimmerman did afterwards. I’ve read one account where he went back to the truck. But, that will be determined in court.
2) You call Martin a ‘boy,’ and seem full of disdain that Zimmerman “carried the gun into a confrontation with a kid”. Like Redteam already said, this ‘kid’ was 6′ with a hood over his head. How was Zimmerman to know how old this figure was, whether he was an adult or a kid, or if he even had a weapon? All Zimmerman had to go on was size, and seeing a stranger who was considerably taller than he was.
3) Most of your references about Zimmerman are negative, referring to his “vigilante idiocy,” calling him a ” violence prone idiot with a gun who got into a conflict unnecessarily and caused a death.” However, people in this mixed racial neighborhood have had mainly positive comments about him, saying he was an asset to their community. In fact, Zimmerman’s life seemed to be going in a being-of-service direction, while Martin’s life was going in another direction, with recent episodes of school suspensions, drug use etc.,
4) You also describe the crux of this altercation as being a “misuse of a gun in a non-critical situation.” However, with a history of recent robberies in the area, there had to be more general unease for people living in those homes. And, it doesn’t seem out of the ordinary that a designated neighborhood watch person, with a license to carry a firearm, might have a gun on him, in what might be deemed as a ‘critical time’ for people living in that gated community. What we don’t know is what preceded the need to use that gun. Did Zimmerman already have it drawn, or did Martin reach for it, and there was a fight over it? Again, all this will be sorted out in court.
The only real ‘facts,’ thus far is that Zimmerman followed a hooded figure who seemed suspicious to him, predicated on recent crimes in the neighborhood. There was a physical altercation. A witness said he saw someone with a red shirt lying on his back being pummeled by someone. Zimmerman had a red shirt on. The person on the ground, with the red shirt, was said to be calling for help. At the end of the fight, Martin was shot and killed, and found face down on the ground (which aligns with the witness seeing someone on top of the red-shirted man).
Nothing else is “plain as day.” And, the only politicizing going on has been done by Jackson/Sharpton types.
Aj, this is completely os but could you comment on this article via L.com:
May 6, 2012
Why is Obama degrading our satellite capabilities?
Timothy Birdnow
The U.S. is beginning to lose its satellite earth observation capabilities according to a recent National Research Council report.
Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/05/why_is_obama_degrading_our_satellite_capabilities.html#ixzz1u8Utg1iM
Obama wants the US to not be the leader of the world, he wants them subservient to the UN. Perhaps his cronies are not the ones that would get rich if he put the money into space. Those are just a couple of the likely obvious reasons. Perhaps the people that benefit from the space programs are regularly employed and not likely Obama voters. It also seems clear that he wants the environmental movement to continue to gain strength as a way to continue to bypass congress on passing laws to more tightly regulate the activities of citizens. make the government to be more omnipotent…..
AJ, is the article correct?
Ivehadit,
Been planning a post on this, but the article is not accurate in terms of who is to blame. The problem is true
The debacle has been running for years and is mostly due to mismanagement by NOAA and others under what was the NPOESS program. That program was a disaster and was finally cancelled by the Obama administration (good move) and replaced by a new program were NASA GSFC is to take more control over development (also a good move).
So the Obama administration has been working to correct the problem, while the Bush administration simply let the train wreck continue too long.
NPOESS was years behind schedule and ridiculously over budget. It hit Nunn-Mcurdy twice. the follow-on JPSS program finally oversaw the launch of the first non-operational NPOESS satellite (Suomi-NPP) last October – 5 years too late.
The delays in NPOESS caused all the delays in all our polar weather satellites (DoD included since their birds were also under NPOESS).
Recently Barbara Mukulski decided in her committee NOAA was so bad at satellites all of their birds would move to NASA for building and launch – they could only fly them.
So yes, we have a serious problem, but no it is not the Obama administrations fault, they are taking bold action to correct it. However, it may not be enough since the NPOESS problem did not go all away with JPSS
wow
The normally exceedingly rational AJ is now relying on anonymous sources quoted in the local newspaper as conclusive proof.
I am disappointed.
phaedruscj:
there are more inconsistencies in the anonymous sources than there are consistencies, a couple examples:
“in an audio recording of Zimmerman’s call to police that night, Zimmerman says Trayvon is acting suspiciously and describes him as a black teenager when prompted by the dispatcher”
At no time in the phone conversation with 911 was Martin described as a black teenager. At one point ‘he looks black’ and at another when asked his age, he looks to be in his late teens. but the term black teenager wasn’t in the conversation.
“Several audio experts who have analyzed the 911 tapes”
There has only been a report of two experts (questionable) analyzing the tapes, not ‘several’
Articles such as this are totally useless as factual information, it is only something to keep the news people busy and to feed the readers that may be anxious for crumbs of info. It is made up of some facts, some guesses, some wishes, a lot of innuendo and absolutely nothing new that is likely to be true.