May 15 2012
Trayvon’s Girlfriend Key To Martin Case
This should be the last post on the Trayvon Martin case for a while – unless some details pop out this week from the discovery. As I was doing my last round of news searches, something came out last night from the Zimmerman camp that caught my eye, and confirmed my suspicions (that it would be the testimony of Martin’s girlfriend that seals Zimmerman’s conviction). The source of the enlightening comment? Zimmerman’s father (apparently a judge):
He [Zimmerman’s father] believes medical records and photos – released to the defense on Monday – will prove his son was injured by Trayvon [1] when the two met in a gated community’s dark pathway. He said voice tests will show George Zimmerman didn’t lie and an eyewitness will back up his account. The girl who claims to have been on the phone talking to the teenager when the incident occurred will be proved a liar [2], Zimmerman insists.
Oh good Lord – this is how they plan to win a trial? First off, no one disputes the physical altercation or that George Zimmerman got some scrapes and bruises. The issue is who instigated the confrontation, who pushed this to a head. And in this situation we have ear-witness testimony that the instigator was Zimmerman, contrary to his statements to police. Here is what little we know about the girlfriend’s testimony:
In a dramatic press conference on Tuesday, the Martin family’s lawyer Benjamin Crump detailed how the unnamed girl – a minor who was so traumatised by Martin’s death she was taken to hospital at his wake – was talking to him on his cell phone in the minutes leading up to his death, and heard the altercation with his killer.
…
Crump said that during the final phone call with his girlfriend, who was back home in Miami, Martin told her that a stranger was following him, according to an affidavit she recorded. Martin had then tried unsuccessfully to get away from the stranger.
“He says: ‘Oh, he’s right behind me. He’s right behind me again,'” Crump said the girl told him. “She says: ‘Run.’ He says: ‘I’m not going to run, I’m just going to walk fast.’
She then heard Martin saying “Why are you following me” and another voice saying “What are you doing here?“ She told Crump they both repeated themselves, and then she thinks she heard Zimmerman push Martin “because his voice changes, like something interrupted his speech.” She heard an altercation and then the phone call was cut off, Crump said.
This does blow Zimmerman’s statement made to police at the time out of the water. I would suspect Zimmerman had no idea Martin was on the phone and someone was listening in. So he makes up a story about being ambushed from behind to augment his self defense claim. Little did he know a 3rd person was there that night – virtually.
This testimony is in complete contradiction to Zimmerman’s, and it is powerful (and of equal weight to anything Zimmerman claims). It indicates Martin tries numerous times to get away from Zimmerman who stalks the kid (armed of course). It indicates Zimmerman was not ambushed, but came up to Martin and challenged him. And it also implies Zimmerman started the physical altercation.
If Zimmerman’s father believes the defense will prove her a liar (which is way too harsh) and that will save his son – he is being foolish. She is going to be an unimpeachable witness. She is going to provide details Zimmerman thought he could cover up when he concocted his story.
And it is clear from the elder Zimmerman’s harsh statement it is the girlfriend’s testimony that is most dangerous to his son’s defense.
Zimmerman is now caught in a lie, and somehow must prove to judge or jury the girlfriend made up her testimony. Won’t happen. There is no motive. The defense has relied on this all about Zimmerman being attacked. Now we have confirmation it was Martin who was attacked.
And under stand your ground he had every right to beat Zimmerman’s head against the ground in self defense.
Frogg1,
And yes, Sanford did NOT interview the girl when they decided to drop the case.
AND – Sanford did not reopen the case when they were alerted to the new witness and evidence.
AND – that is why this became national news, because law enforcement refused to follow the evidence and give Martin’s death a full investigation.
So what? Does not change the trajectory of this case
“it is being lost by Zimmerman because he made something up without realizing there was an ear-witness.”
tho not significant. She has little to nothing to testify to. She can’t testify to anything that happened because that would be hear say. She can say what he said, but she can’t say what Martin did or what zimmerman did. She didn’t see them. It’ll be a total waste of time to put her on the stand.
“That is all that is needed to blow Zimmerman’s defense out of the water. Remember, he admits to following, ignoring police direction, arming himself and shooting the kid. He has to prove she lied.”
The burden of proof is on the prosecution. He doesn’t have to prove anything. They have to prove it wasn’t self defense, not the other way around.
no plea bargain coming. unless it’s a surrender by the political appointee. She needs to bail out sooner rather than later. Better to be thought a fool, not open her mouth and remove all doubt.
I must admit that your latest jump over the Zimmerman “shark”was timed impeccably. Did you see the latest medical reports about the state of Zimmerman and Martin wounds?
AJ,
I’m just pointing out that the physical evidence recently released of Zimmerman’s injuries and Trayvon’s injuries seem to support Zimmerman. It looks like the physical assualt was all from Trayvon’s side. I don’t know what Dee Dee’s affidavit even says. I know that you have decided in your mind what has happened and are looking for evidence to support that. I don’t have any emotional investment in this case. The evidence, once heard in full and with challenges, etc may answer more questions. However, I think the case really depends upon who made the first physical assault. And, according to the bail hearing invesitigator statement…..we will not know that answer even after the trial (he said there was no evidence about who threw the first punch). I next would look for what the eyewitness testifies. Did he see a gun out during the fight? If not, that blows your storyline that Zimmerman was somehow threatening Trayvon with a gun like a vigilante. If there was a gun out it might easily support your storyline. I think your last two posts on this topic have been much more reasoned than your earlier ones. And, it is fine by me that you make your own personal conclusions (there are bloggers all over the place doing the same — and they all come up with different aspects/perspectives/conclusions). I find all perspectives interesting and they all make me think about this case in different ways. I’m not pro-Trayvon; and I’m not pro-Zimmerman…..I am pro-truth. Unfortunately the whole truth of this case may never be known. We’ll have to wait and see where the evidence of the trial goes.
One thing does bother me though. If Trayvon had his phone on him at the time of his death…..why did the police seem to treat this as a “John Doe” type case and not know his identity until his father reported Trayvon missing (fitting the description of his son)? It would have been easy to identify him with his phone call info. And, if Dee Dee trully understood the situation as Trayvon being stalked by some guy, some kind of shuffle, and the phone goes dead…..why didn’t she report it to the police, family, etc? It’s like she just went to bed and forgot about it like nothing happened. I find both of those troubling unless there is something there I haven’t heard about yet.
gcotharn,
Thanks for those links from the Conservative Tree House. Those were very interesting. I do disagree with one of his conclusions though. I have a teen. They can talk on the phone and twitter at the same time. Dee Dee could have been on twitter for 400 hours and talking to Trayvon for the same 400 hours. There is good basis for a lot of his other conclusions though.
Frogg: I believe it was several days before the police contacted DeeDee and asked her if she had a conversation with Trayvon that day. She never did initiate a call or report to the police. she appeared completely unconcerned about the situation. (according to reports as reliable as ABC News and other Lame Stream Media types)
Kinda like Martins father came home with Police all over the apartment complex with lights flashing everywhere and yellow barrier tape all around within 200 feet of his apt. and he just went in and went to bed and waited til the next morning to call the police. Not concerned at all.
If that’s true about Trayvon’s father, that seems plain weird. I always worried about my son when he didn’t come home at the time he said he was coming in. That’s just being an alert parent, especially when your child is under age.
I know when my son was out and I even heard a siren in the distance, it would be a little disconcerting, as a part of me would wonder if that siren had anything to so with my son. Now, if there was yellow tape surrounding a crime scene in my neighborhood, I would probably have gone ballistic until I knew what had happened….
It is true, there are pictures taken at the scene after the time Martin’s father came home (at 10:30 PM) Trayvon is still lying on the ground covered by a yellow tarp in one of the photos. There is a link in the comments by gcotharn up above in this thread that show these photos.
All this about DeeDee, she was talking with Trayvon when he was killed on Feb 26, the very first time she was contacted by anyone about her conversation was after Mar 18 and she didn’t make any statement to anyone until after April 4th. Wonder how she recalled all those details over that time frame. Martin’s father had never heard of her prior to Mar 18th, neither had Martin’s mother (and she was at the wake and no one was curious who she was?) They only found out about her when they got a copy of his cell phone records and wondered who had the number Martin was talking with at the time.
AJStrata,
Once again, you are factually challenged in your assertions.
“And yes, Sanford did NOT interview the girl when they decided to drop the case.”
The police attempted to interview the girl and were denied access to her by her attorney. That is not the same thing as trying to place negligence on the police as you are trying to do.
“AND – Sanford did not reopen the case when they were alerted to the new witness and evidence.”
What new witness? The girl was known to the police and she refused to talk to them. By law, they could not get a material witness warrant because the girl is not a witness to the incident.
“AND – that is why this became national news, because law enforcement refused to follow the evidence and give Martin’s death a full investigation.”
This became national news because people decided to push an agenda – not justice. They, like you, are not interested in the truth.
Frogg1,
let me explain how little that medical evidence means:
Prosecutor: “Doctor (x), were the injuries to George Zimmerman life threatening?”
Doctor X: “No”
Prosecutor: “Doctor (x), were the injuries to George Zimmerman debilitating or impact his ability to lead a normal life”
Doctor X: “No”
Rinse and repeat through N number of doctors called by each side.
Sorry, but a punch in the nose is not a life threatening event worth a human life.
Louctiel,
Nothing you CLAIM means squat in court. Nothing. It cannot even be brought up because it is immaterial.
The point still stands – Zimmerman made up an alibi about being attacked form behind without realizing a witness was on the phone and can prove he lied.
While there are always risks in a trial the testimony can be challenged successfully, the odds are against that happening. What she heard proves Zimmerman lied. The rest is irrelevant.
The only way for Zimmerman to avoid a guilty verdict is to prove she is lying…
Good luck with that! All witnesses have equal standing. And she will be very credible.
And you have NO idea when or how she interacted with police. Sorry, but your arguments are standing on imagination, not established fact.
And yes, I know my view is as well, but it has been tested by the scientific method by making predictions on how this would unfold and being proven correct. While it may still go the other way, so far everything is transpiring as I expected.
Which is why I keep saying Zimmerman is in serious legal trouble and better make sure he wants to risk the rest of his life on a court trial.
If he goes forward I will find it evidence he is not guilty. But if he is the reckless and over confident person I believe he is, he will soon crumble and understand what he did was wrong and he cannot continue to blame the dead boy for his agressiveness.
“Prosecutor: “Doctor (x), were the injuries to George Zimmerman life threatening?”
Doctor X: “No””
Defense: After your nose was broken, what happened?
Zimmerman: I was stunned. Blinded. I fell to the ground and TM got on top of me. He kept hitting me in the face and eyes. And then he grabbed my head and started bashing it into the concrete. I started to scream for help, and at some point he covered my mouth and told me to shut the F up. Now I couldn’t breath out of my nose or mouth. I kept trying to wiggle free, and then he saw my gun. He made a grab for it. And so did I.
Defense: Were you afraid for your life?
Zimmerman: Yes. Absolutely.
Regarding Redteam’s last post: I hadn’t heard anything about the unresponsiveness of the girlfriend, in having her testimony gleaned so many days after the incident. Details do get fussed, or even distorted, by bubbling emotions surrounding this much publicized event, that became a racial issue almost from the getgo.
People around Martin are also fudging information about him, such as the family mortician who failed to disclose Trayvon’s injured knuckles, saying instead there was nothing amiss except for the bullet wound.
AJ seems to remain steadfast in his ‘knowing’ that Martin was attacked first by this out-of-control vigelante named Zimmerman. There seems to be no benefit of the doubt about Zimmerman’s preconceived character, his intent, his actions on this particular night, no matter what is revealed.
I’m perplexed……
“The point still stands – Zimmerman made up an alibi about being attacked form behind without realizing a witness was on the phone and can prove he lied. ”
But we all know that the witness CAN NOT testify which direction he was attacked from because she DID NOT see which direction he was attacked from. She has no knowledge of what ACTUALLY happened only what she remembers(6 weeks later) Martin telling her was happening. She can not testify to hear say evidence.
“The only way for Zimmerman to avoid a guilty verdict is to prove she is lying…” He won’t have to prove she is lying because she won’t be allowed to testify ‘which direction’ Martin approached Zimmerman because she didn’t see it. It is hear say.
“And you have NO idea when or how she interacted with police. Sorry, but your arguments are standing on imagination, ”
We do know that she DID NOT interact with police prior to March 18, about 3 weeks after the shooting. And we do know that her first statement to any police was on or after April 2.
“I know my view is as well, but it has been tested by the scientific method by making predictions on how this would unfold and being proven correct.” Maybe some day you’ll tell us which predictions unfolded as you predicted and what you were proven correct on. The only person that seems to buy your story is BGG and he doesn’t even think the police can charge anyone for a crime.
Marsh,
What you just posted is one scenario that could have happened. In fact that is how Zimmerman has basically described the confrontation from the beginning, saying that it was Trayvon who grabbed for his gun when he was on the ground and made some kind of threatening comment about killing him.
Oh well…it’s the vigelante’s faulth, hands down…..
RT,
Really? They talked to each other. Duh
TM: “Why are you following me?”
GZ: “What are you doing here?”
TM: “Why are you following me?”
GZ: “What are you doing here?”
TM” “whh – oof!” interrupted by what sounded to be a push or punch
That is not being jumped from behind.
Also…
TM says the GZ is BEHIND him again!
Dude – “BEHIND” Think about it….
If GZ is behind TM and he catches up to him then….
Do I really have to spell it out?? Really?
Marsh,
Sorry dude, but GZ does NOT get to decide what is life threatening…
And that will be explained in detail.
The Best GZ can do now is say he panicked when he started losing the fight….
He got scared, thought he was in danger and throw himself on the mercy of the court.
Otherwise he will be fond guilty simply because he refuses to see the seriousness of his missteps and mistakes. Until he admits his culpability, the prosecutors will hound him until he too spend 20 years in jail.
That is why gun ownership is a serious responsibility. As someone who is for the 2nd Amendment and against reckless armed fools who get in trouble and kill kids, I am fine throwing the book at GZ until he shows real regret for his actions.
jan, the info that was given to Zimmerman’s attorney Monday includes some recorded questioning sessions and a list of that info. In that list it shows that DeeDee was questioned and made her statement on April 2. here is a link so you don’t have to search:
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/05/15/zimmerman-case-omara-death-threats-discovery-deedeew8/
Dee Dee will NOT testify to hearing Zimmerman begin the fight. She never said she heard it. How do I know this?
B/c the state admitted UNDER OATH that they didn’t have one single shred of evidence that contradicted Zimmerman’s assertion that TM began the fight. OR that Zimmerman was not returning to his truck when the altercation began.
“Sorry dude”
I’m not a dude.
“GZ does NOT get to decide what is life threatening…”
The judge/jury will decide if Zimmerman believed his life was in danger. That’s all that matters. And once Zimmerman says TM went for his gun, it will be up to the state to offer up evidence that contradicts that.