Jun 26 2012
The Nail In George Zimmerman False Claims
This post extends analysis I did in a previous post.
There has been a lot of excellent analysis in the blogosphere regarding George Zimmerman’s claims about the events surrounding his killing of young Trayvon Martin. Analysis clearly in line with the results of the police investigation and the prosecution’s case. While there are many discrepancies throughout Zimmerman’s tall tale, some are simply too big to ignore.
(1) There is no way GZ could pull his gun as described. On his back with his holster against his hip, his holster inside his waistband, while being pinned by TM who is supposedly straddling him. This position means TM”s legs are blocking access to GZ’s waist area (especially if he wiggles ‘downward’ through the straddling legs), as well as the ground and clothing making it impossible to reach and pull a gun. In this position you cannot pull a gun on a wet and rainy night without some evidence on the gun. But the fact is GZ’s elbow is too long to reach his waist since he claimed to be pinning TM’s arm while attempting this trick. Impossible (see below for why)
Update: For all the doubting Thomas’ out there, you can disprove this yourself. Try and get your wallet of your pants laying on your back without raising you butt off the ground (this is within inches of where a holster would be inside a waste band). Then have someone straddle you and try again – note where their legs are. And finally, pin something under your right arm, have someone straddle you (with their weight on you) and try again. While the picture above is static, your own experiment will do the trick. In the last case your elbow must bend to get to your back pocket, thus the laws of physics and biology disprove the reenactment by GZ. – end update.
(2) There is almost no GZ blood or DNA on TM. TM should be covered with blood or DNA from the punching and from the claimed suffocation attempt. But there is none.
(3) There is no TM blood or DNA on GZ, which there would be if he was shot while straddling over GZ. Blood would begin to flow and should be all over GZ.
(4) If TM was really banging GZ’s head on concrete, there should be some fractures in the skull. Apparently there are no injuries consistent with multiple hard blows to the head.
(5) Finally, the path of the bullet in TM’s body is not possible from the position described , and really is only possible if both men are standing AND GZ’s arm is extended straight.
When you look at the bullet path inside TM’s body it is pretty clear that this was not a shot from underneath, which would be the angle if events transpired as Zimmerman claims. In fact, even standing the only way to get a gun that level is with your elbows locked straight out in a typical gun range position.
This post does a great job of highlighting some of these basic issues (and where I was able to collect the bullet path image)
You can’t break the laws of physics/biology/chemistry – this is not a fictional world. The crime scene evidence completely destroys GZ’s story, even before you get to issues like the timeline described vs the timeline recorded on the dispatch call, the lies about why GZ exited the car (to follow TM, not to read house numbers which were right in front of him). Basically, nothing beyond the fact he shot Trayvon appears to be true.
And why would GZ need to lie so much?
Because the truth is his actions led to the death of young Trayvon Martin. That is the only reason to make up so much fiction.
If someone were crouching over me with their hands holding my wrists I could still very easily roll and twist my body to one side or the other to throw my assailant off balance. Especially if I considered myself to be in life and death struggle.
I could also very likely be successful in getting a knee straight up into my assailant’s groin area with enough force to convince him to turn me loose.
Nah, I am not buying the crouching/standing theory. It goes against what Z has said. Plus it defies logic in that it would have given Z too many opportunities for escape.
Opportunities that he did not take advantage of even though he was supposedly in a life and death struggle.
Gentlemen, by Zimmerman’s own account, Martin wasn’t standing over, hovering over, or crouching over in a four point sprinters stance – he was mounted on top of. This positioning was corroborated by witness #6, but it’s all in the SPD interviews with GZ.
The 3 verbatim quotes below are from the Serino interviews, and there were additional references to being “mounted” that I neglected to copy.
“I ended up on my back and he was on top of me, mounted.”
“He was mounted on me, but he has pressure on my nose.”
“I’m on my back, he’s mounted on top of me.”
M-o-u-n-t-e-d.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RaknmTkjvU&feature=player_embedded
In this video, Brandy Green thinks TM went to the store, came home, was sitting on her porch, got killed. Wonder why she thought that.
Wonder if they did tests on her.
We do know that he wasn’t sitting on the porch just before going to store, he was watching all-star game.
Shall we now discuss the mating habits of the bald eagle now, RT? It’s about as relevant to the evidence as your above comment, ya know.
Thanks for the link Joaquin. I am right of center, and independent who will never be ‘a party man’, only because I am immune to group think.`
All views welcomed here. Just avoid insults at the host and his family – that is the trigger that gets folks expelled. Also prefer the tone remain civil and professional.
Hey Everyone, have a great 4th. On my way to the airport for 10 days in Cabo so knock yourselves out! Meanwhile I’ll be sitting on a lounge chair at the beach enjoying an adult beverage.
Last Thoughts:
1) Mata, Mata, Mata – seriously? You’ve got to start somewhere.
2) All you Supermen: a) Try it before you start criticizing, and b) its not as easy as you think it is.
3) Joaquin – a fight is never static, it is dynamic. In my little experiment I told my son that when I say “go” his job is to prevent me from getting up. His “stance” varied all over the place in reaction to my struggles. His hand positons shifted and changed as I struggled. So GZ said: “I’m on my back, he’s mounted on top of me.” So what? If I can do a little reinactment so can the defense.
I can’t get over how so many of you seem to think that TM was just sitting there in a static position and that GZ never moved, twisted, bucked, hit back, struggled, etc. You can’t take a single word, M-o-u-n-t-e-d, and assume that means the position in AJs photo (above) and it stayed that way for the duration. Use a little imagination.
Uh, and by the way, thanks for the spelling lesson: M-o-u-n-t-e-d.
Hi AJStrata. Reasonable guidelines and I’ll do my best to respect them, thank you.
Hey Mata. Yes, I did read Renee’s scathing appraisal of GZ’s believability. She appears to have a practiced eye, and by extension, her faithful readership/poll respondents may be more attuned than the average entrails reader > me.
For those that can remember the “Leave It To Beaver” show, GZ does the finest ‘Eddie Haskell’ impersonation I’ve ever seen.
Howdy Layman. I’m merely offering Zimmerman’s verbal representation of the ground struggle. He claims that Martin was “mounted on top of” him in the superior position from the moment they hit the ground, until he discharged his weapon.
Witness #6, John, also places Martin in the superior position. He said the pair was perpendicular to the sidewalk with their heads near the edge of the concrete when he yelled at them from his patio door. If we accept both Zimmerman and John’s testimony, we know the ground struggle was characteristically dynamic, because ultimately, Martin’s body was discovered laying face down in the grass, several feet away from the concrete.
Conversely, other witnesses place Zimmerman in the [superior positionhttp://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/17/2804442/law-officers-set-to-release-evidence.html].
I hyphenated the word ‘mounted’ for emphasis; not to be critical of, or to correct a spelling error. I apologize for coming across as rude.
Enjoy Cabo, and even though we’ve just met, please have a fish taco for me. Thanks!
mata:
“Shall we now discuss the mating habits of the bald eagle now, RT? ”
what, you mean you want to get on a subject that you know a little about?
“In this video, Brandy Green thinks TM went to the store, came home, was sitting on her porch, got killed. Wonder why she thought that.” If she didn’t think that, what did she mean by ‘sitting on the porch’? I’m not the person that said Martin was sitting on the porch, Brandy Green did.
Trayvon was out there hiding in the bushes from GZ, how could she have seen him sitting on her porch after he had gone to the store? I wonder if her porch is anywhere near her apartment door (mata: near, here, means: ‘on this planet’)
mounted in MMA lingo does not mean the same thing as a normal person would mean (as in the picture in this post) in MMA, the ‘mounted’ person is actually between the legs of the person they are mounted on: see here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2KhLmf1yBA&feature=player_embedded
don’t know if that would make much difference, but would certainly appear to make it easier for someone to reach a gun on their hip.
Actually, this is what is referred to as the “mounted” position in MMA:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auciSbB-l6I&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivGksxVQwww&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2OAJF__P2w&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3LM_SbhUU4&feature=related
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_%28grappling%29
RT’s video clip demonstrates the “guard” position:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guard_%28grappling%29
Apparently, this still goes over your head, RT. Brandy Green was neither, home, nor communicated with TM via phone during this entire evening. TM’s phone records clearly prove that. Non issue, and irrelevant…. rather like your comments and observations. LOL
mata: you need to catch up (are you still busy eating that legal Big Mac? while pedaling around the circle? oh where oh where is that off ramp?)
that’s what happens when you get to the game late. if you saw the video, Brandy Green made that statement, I didn’t.
Why did she say it? No one knows Brandy Green’s whereabouts that night, no investigations have been done concerning the truth of any of her statements of her whereabouts for that night. I’m sure she hasn’t made you privy to her movements that night. regardless of her whereabouts, she made the statement that TM was on her porch.
TM’s phone records, as released, are fabricated. Proof of that is that the call he received while at 7-11 at 6:23 as seen on video, is not on the phone record. Wanta try to explain that?
Yes, they do. Daddy Zimmerman and gal pal didn’t get home until well after the murder. TM was on the phone with Dee both at the 7:11, and again until the time of the murder.
Desperately grasping at straws for relevance here, dude.
Sorry.. meant Daddy Martin and gal pal. They all look alike in this case… LOL
mata: you’ll just throw anything up on the wall to see if it’ll stick.
No. there has been no documentation of where they were at the time. They have said various things, but there is no documentation of any of it. I wonder why you don’t know that.
The phone record does not show a call to TM’s phone at 6:23. The time when he received a call at the 7-11. I wonder why you don’t know that.
back to name calling? how does that old axiom go again? when the facts aren’t on your side, call them a name? or something…..
Tracy Martin and Brandy Greene are not persons of interest in the case because Martin was shot by Zimmerman, as he readily admits. Their whereabouts are irrelevant, save to say they were out to dinner, did not return home until between 10 and 11pm, and cannot possibly be witnesses to any of the events that night. Talk about attempting to see what sticks to the wall.
You seem to have this inability to focus on elapsed time, and GZ’s own statements – the centerpiece for most of the discussions here – and wander off into never never land on things.
The full TM cell records – from Jan 1 to Mar 1 – are on a CD, and part of the second redacted discovery. Judge Lester’s Jun 13th ruling determined that TM’s cell records are exempt from the public record disclosure rule. So if you’re using the little snapshot from way back that shows two incoming calls (7’04” and 7’12”), plus a Mar 1 emergency 911 reference, you don’t even have a drop in the bucket.
Do I understand that calling your comments irrelevant (which they are) and a non issues (which they also are) is, in your book, “name calling”? LOL My, you do tend to suffer from a fragile emotional state.
You know, RT, you attempt to dish it out at every turn, but you’re pretty hypersensitive when you are treated with the exact terse and rude attitude you, yourself, use. Can’t help ya there, guy. When you stop being rude and insulting, I’m likely to address you in the same manner. Until then, you reap what you sow. Get over it.
RT,
You are so desperate you are now claiming if you don’t know about information it must not exist. And your silly ‘late to the game’ comment is getting old.
Maybe you jumped to conclusions way to early in the game and are incapable of cogent reassessment?
mata: so you now claim that BG and TMSr whereabouts aren’t known. just above you were claiming they were known. but now you say it’s not relevant where they were. If you watched the video you see Brandy Green saying she saw TM sitting on her porch after he went to the store. So if she’s going to claim that, it would be nice to know if she were actually there to see it, or not.
“Desperately grasping at straws for relevance here, dude.”
my name is not ‘dude’.
AJ, “And your silly ‘late to the game’ comment is getting old.”
It’s not my fault that mata got to the game late and hasn’t caught up yet, though she seems to be trying hard to do so.
As for jumping to conclusions, I still haven’t concluded who did what. My statement still remains that I don’t know if GZ is guilty of a crime or not, but that it is clear that there is not enough evidence to convict him of a crime. If there is such evidence, it has not been made public. From the released evidence it seems clear that GZ acted in self defense.
mata: “When you stop being rude and insulting, I’m likely to address you in the same manner. ” I only respond to your rudeness and I don’t call you anything other than mata (and appropriate pronouns)
I don’t personally care if you resort to name calling, as I said, that’s what usually happens when you don’t have the facts on your side and demonstrates that to the public.
You really are dumber than a box of rocks when it comes to reading, RT. Their whereabouts are known to the extent that they have said multiple times they were out to dinner, and returned home well after the murder. Beyond that, they are of no value to the evidence and cannot possibly be considered a valuable witness except, perhaps to possibly ID a voice yelling help. But even that isn’t of value.
You keep harping on the irrelevant, and studiously avoid the relevant.
It’s also interesting that you continually portray yourself as superior on the haps, insulting me with parroted phrases, yet babble about TM cell records that are, per a judge’s order, unavailable for public records. While your informational faux pas may be mildly amusing on occasion, you might want to check your ego at the door to avoid further embarrassment.