Jul 14 2012
Zimmerman’s Guilded Lies Sealed His Fate
Update II: George Zimmerman’s friend, who relays details to police regarding events of that night portrayed to him by Zimmerman which I discuss below, is not only one time Seminole County Deputy, but also a Federal Air Marshall. This should be interesting…
Major Update: And this is why one needs to read things for themselves. Apparently reports claiming TM”s gunshot wound was not a contact wound (i.e., the gun was not pressed to the chest or shirt) were wrong. On page 205 of the latest document dump the forensic results indicate a contact shot. So my comments below regarding the muzzle of the gun being away from the body are inaccurate (since I based on them on inaccurate reports). Anyway, this does not help GZ. If (and now I have to question the conclusions of other reporting on the autopsy) the bullet’s trajectory is straight front to back and not at an upward angle, then GZ’s statements on when/how the gun was fired are still in doubt. Of course, if the bullet path does reflect a gun pointed upward from the waist into the chest, I will be back here eating a mighty pile of crow….
end update
It is sad to say this, but the concept of ‘critical thinking’ is now a rare talent in America. Too many accept information unconditionally, and then deny all clear evidence to the contrary once they are emotionally committed.
Critical thinking requires an individual to assess information in a manner that challenges all associated assumptions and conclusions. Believe nothing – challenge it all. It means you dig down on your own to determine the truthfulness of claims, instead of taking propaganda and PR at face value.
For example, when the New York Times runs a story claiming George Bush “bypassed FISA” to snoop on Americans, a critical thinking person looks at the details in the story and challenges the hidden assumptions and conclusions being spoon fed to the mindless masses to digest. In this manner, the critical thinker discovers that the entire New York Times story is a crock. A fiction crafted to hide reality: a liberal judge bent out of shape over actions taken post 9-11 to make sure no more Americans died horrible deaths here in the US because of out-dated, ill-conceived POLICIES that provided terrorists more protections within our borders than without. And thus the critical thinkers expose lies and deceptions being hoisted on the public.
And so it is with the George Zimmerman shooting of Trayvon Martin. So many people jumped to conclusions before the details were known, and now actively avoid critical assessment of the information just now coming out. Especially if it upends their initial conclusions.
My engineering/science background – acquired over 3 decades now – does not allow me to avoid the hard truths, or to ignore false claims. It is just not something I can (or will) change. So when you ask why I keep looking at this case, it is because I am a critical thinker who is challenging all the unfounded assumptions and conclusions.
So while the non-critical thinkers claim there is nothing new in each release of evidence in the Trayvon Martin case (as if closing one eyes really does make the world go away), the critical thinker spends time reviewing and assessing the information. If nothing more to cross check his conclusions to date to make sure they still hold, but also to see if there is additional corroborating information that strengthens those earlier conclusions.
Sadly for George Zimmerman he has acted true to form as it pertains to my original assessment of him. I said early on, IF GZ was guilty, his guilt would be discovered because his on-the-spot-alibi would crumble under the weight of evidence and witness statements. I only said this because it was obvious – the liar would be caught in his web of deceit while the honest person would be vindicated as fact unfolded. I did not know then HOW GZ would be caught, just that the truth would win out.
As I read the more extensive interviews now available, I discovered two that really box GZ in because they attempt to provide support to those aspects of GZ’s testimony which are PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE. Let me emphasize this again: some of GZ’s statements could simley be inaccurate (and he would still have self defense claim), but when his story about how he was in a life-and-death situation and had to save himself is proven IMPOSSIBLE, then he is going to be found guilty of Murder 2. He admits to the killing, so if the killing could not happen as he claims, he is lying and he is then going to go to jail for a long, long time.
So let’s recap what aspects of the story are not just inaccurate, but impossible. GZ claims he was pinned under Trayvon Martin – who was beating his head against concrete (this is simply inaccurate, there are no injuries to sustain this claim). Trayvon then notices GUZ’s concealed weapon (again inaccurate, since the gun was on GZ’s hip, trapped between the ground and his back).
So far bad, but not horrible. But GZ, in an effort to bolster his credibility makes the classic mistake of all bad liars. He attempts to add details to make it seem more realistic. But it this series of these details that make GZ’s claim go from unlikely to impossible.
So let’s begin. As I noted in a previous post discussing the Video Reenactment performed the day after the killing, GZ demonstrates where he kept his holster.
Note this is around the back in the waistband of his pants. Also note the angle of his elbow when reaching to his gun. His elbow HAS to bend to reach his waist. You cannot reach your waist and pull upward (to pull a gun) without bending the elbow. It is physically impossible.
Not 10 seconds later in the reenactment, GZ adds one of his embellishments that make his story now impossible. He claims he has Trayvon Martin’s arm pinned to his side because Martin is going for his gun. Now look at his elbow and hand!
There is no way to pin an arm AND reach behind AND pull a gun from your waist band – because once the elbow bends to get to the gun you loose the pin on the arm. This is Impossible Fiction 1.
I also noted in that prior post you cannot pull a gun from a holster on your back hip if you are on your back, pinned to the ground by someone ‘mounted’ on your stomach. This observation brought out a lot of fanciful thinking from GZ defenders. They created a series of mythological positions with TM standing over GZ, not sitting on GZ’s stomach pushing his back onto the ground.
It turns out GZ repeated this story many times after the shooting to friends and allies, and in the telling added more damning details. And these details prove false the fantasies. Here is a snippet from Interview Record 52 (from this record of evidence, starting page 77 – click to enlarge):
This version of events was told to police by a very good friend of Zimmerman’s. The same friend GZ and his wife stayed with after the shooting. The same friend who went with his wife to pick up GZ the night of the incident and the same friend who is with GZ during the video reenactment. A man who was a Seminole County Deputy for 6 years. This is what he told police GZ told him. In this telling GZ is quite clear: TM was mounted on him with his butt on GZ’s stomach, knees on the ground next to his ribs. I have no doubt the man conveyed completely and accurately what GZ told him.
This means it would be impossible for GZ to ‘pin’ Trayvon’s arm to his side – TM’s knees are in the way. This results in Impossible Fiction 2. It also means GZ cannot reach his gun to pull it out of the holster. TM’s knees are in the way and GZ back is on the ground, the holster under a jacket. blocking access (ee the picture below as to why this is not possible):
This gives us Impossible Fiction 3.
But GZ is not done enhancing his lies. He changes the story slightly, from pinning TM’s arm in the video reenactment to swatting it away in the telling to the friend (or the friend’s telling to the police):
But that is not all that changes, there is one more tidbit that brings us to the big impossible fiction- the angle of the bullet:
Now this is one helluva detail for GZ to recollect – not to mention emphasize enough that it comes through one second-hand telling by GZ’s dear friend and also comes through in the synopsis of the police interview report. This detail had to been heavily emphasized in order for it to make through these two different renditions. Thankfully GZ and his friend went to all this trouble, because it also creates a really big impossible fiction.
When laying on your back, with elbow on the ground, you are going to restrict the range of motion of the arm and thus the aim of a gun in the hand. Let’s look at those elbows again, and see what range of aim is possible from your back with your elbow on the ground.
Those who are critical thinkers (and who know the bullet path in TM’s body) can see where this is going. Here is a representation of the bulletpath according to the autopsy report (note: this is NOT an autopsy image or from the police, but someone’s reasonably accurate rendering of the details in the report). The bullet path indicates the gun was shot straight at TM’s chest (as if held straight out from a standing position).
Is this possible given this new detail about the elbow? Let’s overlay someone mounted on the prone body, sitting on the stomach, and check those firing angles again.
Nope, can’t happen. This is why GZ’s account is total fiction – not just inaccurate. From the ground a shot into the chest straight on is really not possible. Not mounted in the manner GZ states many times in various interviews. And remember, GZ claims he wiggles down farther between TM’s legs to get off the pavement, only THEN he is able to pull the gun and shoot. So even this representation is not showing how badly GZ’s alibi stands up to the physics of the elbow and bullet trajectory. Physics can be unforgiving.
So this is Impossible Fiction 4- shooting TM from this position with elbow on ground. In this orientation I doubt you can get the proper angle at all given the distance the gun was fired from and the angle (gun was medium range, not up against the chest). There are probably some contorted positions, but they won’t match the ballistics residue on GZ or TIM, or the blood splatter patterns, or the path and distance of the muzzle, etc. I am not seeing how the shot happened as GZ claims. Such are the challenges of off-the-cuff alibis. It is hard to get all the physics and biology right.
Just a side note here. GZ definitely tried his alibi out on a few people right after the incident. And in doing so got himself into some serious perjury traps. As we have heard before, GZ swears he did not leave his truck to follow TM. He only left it to find street signs or apartment numbers. But when he went to work the next day, he told his coworker a different story – one more consistent with the dispatcher call (fixed the link for enlarge):
This is petty damning. My guess is GZ wanted to convey more of him as cop-like figure in this telling. So instead of keeping with the safer excuse (he was trying to get oriented), GZ is clearly admitting here he is looking (hunting?) for TM. He first follows him in the car, and gets out of the car to find him on foot. GZ awkwardly lied to Sanford Police when he tried to change the reason why he was out of his car. BTW, GZ made the same mistake when he told his friend above – also stating clearly to him he left the car to find Martin. So that is two witnesses who confirm GZ was looking for TM, because GZ told them he was.
George Zimmerman is claiming his life was in danger and he was attacked. But the encounter he describes (or more accurately, he concocted) does not fit the evidence. He was not mounted after he was knocked to the ground at the T at the beginning of the altercation. There was an argument followed by some physical interactions that ranged over 40 feet with him and Martin on their feet at times. There are no life threatening head injuries. All we can confirm is GZ has broken nose and he landed on his ass in the wet grass.
That does not constitute life and death, and thus does not warrant deadly force.
The details of Zimmerman’s account are just not possible. Therefore he made them up, sprinkled here and there with a touch of reality (like it was dark out). But since his story is provable fiction, then his self defense claim is also fiction. His self defense claim lies on his account being true and accurate. Some people like to lean on ‘reasonable doubt’. Well when the story told by Zimmerman is fiction, beyond any doubt, then guess what.
You get a guilty charge on Murder 2.
Mata, thanks for the links. You forget the GZ claims he wiggles down between the legs, which uncovers the presence of the gun to TM. From that position none of the movement work – including the ability to roll TM.
Now, if you want something that may work the angles, TM tries to get up off GZ to run again, GZ pulls the gun while he is now not being compressed, and pulls TM towards him (possibly by the shirt or collar) while pulling trigger. TM grabs his chest and continues face down into the grass.
That is the only position where the gun is at the right angle, as TM’s head is pulled down and he is on or near his feet. In this kind of orientation. This is would be the right angle.
It would also mean, once again, TM was trying to disengage. And it is this effort to disengage GZ that makes GZ’s defense wrong.
However, even though you *may* have an angle that might work, that is not GZ’s claim or his defense. So it is a moot point.
GZ’s claim is impossible. Thus his story is impossible. Thus he is guilty….
“Heavily laden with drugs..??
BWAHAHAHAHHA…. I know it’s really not a nice trait to laugh of mental amoebae, but how can you not?
Yo.. genius… the toxicity levels, which generally spike higher post mortem… were so low as to not even meet State intoxication levels. Had Martin been stopped by a passing cop and tested, they wouldn’t even have enough to arrest him for being under the influence, even *with* the spike levels.
And what’s the spin about the phone? Both the headset and the phone stayed on Martin’s person until his final moments. That doesn’t mean, however, that the call connection wasn’t dropped sooner due to jarring. Geez… here I thought the great Zim defender, RT, wanted to believe GZ’s story as to where the fight started. Of course, the only thing we know for sure is where it ended… and it was no where near the tee.
RT – TM heavily laden with drugs!!!
LOL! Dude you truly are delusional! From Perry Mason to Dr Kildare, and straight to Jerry Lewis…
Marvelous. And for your next embarrassing display of IQ….
AJ, Zim goes thru the “wiggling” several times under questioning in the CVSA as well, too. But at that time he’s just saying that’s how his jacket rode up enough for TM to use his x-ray vision to see the holster above his right buttock. LOL But he never gives a timeline as to how long this mythical struggle for the gun took place.
In fact, GZ’s perception that “it seemed like forever” (again, CVSA video) is a problem because he keeps trying to pack in too many events for a fight that actually took less than a minute to occur.
There’s very little about GZ’s story that works… except for the fact he was there, called the dispatch, and killed Martin. Everything else is pretty much scripted, as Serino notes. Oddly enough, people seem to think “scripted” is a sign of truth. What are ya gonna do?
mata:
“And what’s the spin about the phone? Both the headset and the phone stayed on Martin’s person until his final moments.”
then you need to get into critical thinking class (after you finish your 30+ years in science/engineering) and take that issue up with AJ. He thinks the phone was quite some distance away from the angel. (see his post above)
(you can’t be a critical thinker without a minimum of 30 years science/engineering experience. We’re gonna have to start rating ‘critical thinkers’ around here. 30 years experience in science/engineering gets you a 1. that means 10 years you are a .33. That puts me in the 1.33+ category. read and learn from a ‘true’ critical thinker.
AJ:
“RT – TM heavily laden with drugs!!!”
I thought you kept up with the evidence. overlooked this little detail, eh?
uh… what did AJ say that’s got your panties in a twist?
The previous post where AJ said:
The comment in this thread where he said:
All I can see is that AJ, as well as you, seem to be under the impression that Martin wasn’t a hands free cell phone user.
That doesn’t seem to be the case. He had a headset… they say “headphones” when collecting it as evidence, which to me is something completely different, but not everyone knows that …. which obviously doesn’t sound like a wireless Bluetooth type headset. He wasn’t in possession of an mp3 player for audio, so the only reason for the headphones/headset was because he used for his phone, and most “headphone”/headsets are wired.
This means it’s unlikely that Martin was holding his phone to his ear, or carrying it in his hand. He would only pull his phone out of his pocket to answer it (i.e. in the dispatcher call when GZ said he was reaching into his pocket… right about the time that Dee’s call would be coming in), or to hang up.
The phone would stay in his pocket for the duration, and fall out in his last moments…. probably knocked out by the fight and the final fall.
None of this has whit to do with when the call with Dee was dropped since a fall or scuffle can cause that disconnection. Heaven knows I’ve accidentally disconnected people enough with my phone in my pocket, using a Bluetooth, because I lean on something and it pushes one of the phone’s buttons. Thank heavens for redial…
But then, the only one focused on the irrelevant is, again you, when you said:
Okay. Consider it “explained”.
INRE your ignorance on “drug laden”, toxicity levels, minimum levels for being under the influence, etc, it seems you’re a slow learner here. You can continue to say it, like many others do, but it still doesn’t make it true. But for those that need to put Martin’s character on trial, it’s a well worn talking point, usually meant to draw attention away from the more potent drugs that Zimmerman uses, and that genuinely do affect violent traits.
mata, you’re basically a waste of time. You don’t seem to be able to keep up with the discussion. Always a day late and dollar short as the saying goes. “saying” you explain something is not the same as actually explaining something. The exact quote from AJ, just above is ” I still don’t know how the phone got there. ”
That’s not really the same as explaining how it got there. your theory and it seems, AJ’s is that GZ laid in wait somewhere for TM. well if TM had already gone to BG’s and was returning to where GZ was, at the T, then he could have dropped the phone on that trip. But that doesn’t explain how the phone got there if TM only went one direction, away from GZ toward BG’s.
So until someone can explain how the phone got nearer to BG’s than where TM went down, then they have to accept the fact that TM was going toward the confrontation, not away from it.
So, until that can be explained, you’re just pushing the hot air button on the hair dryer.
Seems RT has cut/paste answers and a vivid imagination. Exactly where in all that wonderous and imaginary evidence you keep in that vacuum you call a brain filing cabinet is there anything that says Martin dropped his cell phone at any specific time in this event? Martin’s dead.. he ain’t talking.
How about Zimmerman? Where did he tell anyone that Martin dropped his cell?
Or, was it in his pocket and fell out where he died? Oh nooo…. way too logical for an amoeba to grasp.
First draw on the left, RT… that’s where you’ll find a new supply of straws.
The obsession grows and the bullshit flows.
Just back from vacation and see the ol’ crowd is still stuck on the same thing.
“Let’s overlay someone mounted on the prone body, sitting on the stomach, and check those firing angles again. … Nope, can’t happen. This is why GZ’s account is total fiction – not just inaccurate. From the ground a shot into the chest straight on is really not possible.”
I’m going to challenge you once again AJ. Take your last annimation with those 4 big yellow arrows. With those two guys sitting there, static, unmoving, you are right. But if you really think that is how the fight occured then go back to engineering school. I think you’re a bit sharper than that.
Have the guy on top put his left hand on the shoulder/arm/face (your choice), lift his right hand to throw a punch, and then post-up on his feet (for leverage) and guess what – all four of those angle change. Don’t just tell me I’m full of it. DO IT! Show me in the animation that I’m wrong
I do have to hand it to you though. You are SOOOOOOO right. “Physics can be unforgiving.”
Mata:
Not going to waste my time going back over the threads for the last 8 days but I’ll say one thing. If the best you’ve got is calling someone an amoeba then maybe you should consider … (self censored).
???
Wait a minute… aren’t you the boy genius wonder who knows everything? Now we find out you don’t even know where the cell was found?
LOL Well, no surprise. And here I was giving you some credit that you *at least* knew that. Won’t be making that error again.
The cell was next to the body… Marker #7 in the crime scene photos, along with Marker #5, TM’s black flashlight. Therefore it was a close to Greene’s house as the body was, and about 45-50′ away from where Zimmerman said it all happened.
In other words, it fell out of his pocket, along with the flashlight and the headphones which was also found next to him (and seems later put in his pocket)
I’ve explained this once before, but obviously once is never enough for you to absorb it. Object marker numbers, used in the crime scene photos, are different than the evidence numbers. i.e, TM’s flashlight is Object Marker #5, but evidence DMS-6.
The cell phone and the body being located in the same place has nothing to do with where the fight actually started. What we do no is:
1: It ended where Martin’s body, cell, flashlight and headphones were found.
2: It didn’t start where Zimmerman says it was
3: It traveled, and there was a lot more arguing and words exchanged than Zimmerman says.
I suppose you’ll be providing the non existent links to evidence that the phone was dropped prior to the death right about the same time we see all those Martin cell records that the judge won’t release, right?
Or perhaps the Judge’s statement declaring GZ “Guilty”?
Maybe it’s all hiding in the same place as the Dershowitz statements regarding the bond hearing.
Big talk, lots of hot air, below standard capacity output. You could be a walking EPA violation.
Good morning Mata:
Much better! “… a walking EPA violation.” Now that’s funny!
Welcome back Layman.
Per the arm motion – I pulled that from the testimony of Zimmerman’s friend as reported to the police as what happened. I did not make it up, I simply showed how their claims are physically impossible given the path of the bullet in the body.
Sorry, but GZ’s entire story is impossible. The evidence and numerous witness statements (all hearsay according to Dick Tracy RT) prove it is impossible. Physics proves it is impossible.
I really don’t have to prove how GZ’s story could work. If GZ changes his story to make it work, he is done. His one attempt to do this (changing the reason why he got out of the car) is already a deadly disaster. This is why a poorly thought out alibi is a perjury trap. It is WHY we collect evidence and witness statements.
It really does come down to two cases. Either the evidence and statements align with the alibi or they destroy the alibi. Rarely is it all the grey.
Look at the witness testimony. It is not consistent. It changes, the people loose details or mix them up. This is how memory works on real world events.
Then look at GZ, and his constant infusion of minor details no one would detect or recall. They are fictional filling, details that only go one direction (to help GZ). If you have ever been in a fight you would know most of your actions are reflexive. Neither planned or even sensed.
GZ had the gun out before TM mounted him to try and stop him from shooiting. From that point on TM is the one standing his ground – and he sadly failed. GZ knows he initiated the incident, chased down Martin, tried to play policeman and detain Martin, likely got punched and went mad, etc.
He has to take the stand to address all the inconsistencies and impossibilities, because right now there is no doubt that what he claims is not possible.
Either way he is toast.
mata: are you in training for ‘stand up’? seems so. the link about the location of cell phone:
Here is the crime scene drawing with some of my augmentations (click all pictures to enlarge).
http://strata-sphere.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/crime_scene_drawing_2.jpg
Note how far the scene is spread in terms of evidence. Up at the top are GZ’s keys and small flashlight – where GZ and some witnesses state the altercation began. Some 30-40 ft away lays TM’s body, surrounded by bullet casings and GZ’s larger flashlight. And further down still is TM”s cell phone,
you may recognize this as from AJ’s post just prior to this one we are commenting on. So it seems you and AJ disagree on the facts of the case. (could be you haven’t completed your required critical thinking training including prerequisites ).
Layman: you may have missed some comments while away on your much deserved vacation. But mata has run out of facts to argue and has resorted to name calling in a desperate act to appear relevant. she’s not succeeding.
Important note: everything from:
“Here is the crime scene” to “And further down still is TM”s cell phone, ”
in my comment just above should have been enclosed in quotation marks, it is from AJ’s post on this site. Sorry for omitting them accidentally.
RT, I don’t know where AJ picked up the diagram, and I mentioned on that thread that the object markers are different than the DMS evidence numbers. I suspect whoever made that up got confused as to the two.
From the crime scene photos, here is the the clustered object markers, including the cell. Marker #5 is the Martin’s black flashlight. #6 is the body. #7 is the cell phone.
Layman, welcome back from your south of the border sojourn, and hope you had a great time. Glad you got a chuckle.
Sorry if I get acerbic, but ever since I stopped lurking and started commenting, I’ve been insulted by this guy from day one. The tact is always the same… professing his superior knowledge (and always without any links to back it up), and how dumb I’m supposed to be.
Just because his insults are in sentences instead of my single chosen descriptive word does not may his behavior any more acceptable. Generally I try to ignore him, but unfortunately the passing of such absurdities as facts doesn’t always make that possible. Some of the things uttered from that cyber keyboard have been stunning in it’s depth of misinformation.
This is well worth reading, imho:
July 15, 2012
Taking Down the Second Amendment: The Connection between Fast and Furious and the Trayvon Martin Case
By Jeff Lipkes
Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/07/taking_down_the_second_amendment_the_connection_between_fast_and_furious_and_the_trayvon_martin_case.html#ixzz20jofeMUO