May 25 2006
Finally, Progress On Immigration and Security
Is it going to satisfy everyone 100%? Nope – not even me. But it is an enormous step forward. The Senate has passed a comprehensive package on immigration issues:
The U.S. Senate approved an immigration bill Thursday that would toughen security at the Mexican border and grant many illegal immigrants a path toward citizenship.
Under the Senate bill, those who have been here two to five years would enter a temporary-worker program, while those here longer would be eligible for legal status or citizenship after an 11-year probationary period.
Under the Senate legislation, Illegal immigrants in the United States less than two years would be sent to their home countries.
I’ll have a look at the details later if I can find them and the time. But the package beefs up the border, strengthens penalties against employers, and places the crime of working without a proper permit in the context it deserves.
I would rather see reckless drivers who are distracted by newspapers and cellphones while driving deported before people holding jobs and raising families. The difference of course being those reckless drivers can kill me or my kids or wife. In the world of things I think I want addressed, working is just not that high up there.
One thing I want is anyone who has committed a serious crime does sometime and then leavs – never to come back. Hopefully we can use this step to refine and work the issue further. Please don’t complain in the comments about why it should be all or nothing. If you haven’t noticed, I am just not interested in that discussion anymore. I am not an ‘all or nothing/I am staying home’ type of person. Been an engineer too long to waste a life waiting for the mythical ‘perfect solution’. That is pure fantasy. There is no perfection, just progress or failure. Those are the options in life. If we waited for perfection, we would never have explored the world and been on the verge of exploring the heavens today. Now what kind of existence would that be?
AJ:
I hope the Senate and House can come up with a compromise that both sides can live with. I am glad this bill went through, now it is time for the negotiations. My guess is that the guest worker proram will stay, border security will stay and the sticky part will be the path to citizenship. Hopefully there will be some way to make it work. They have to do something will all those people…
If a Republican majority fails to accomplish this, a Democratic majority just might…and I can promise the folks on the far right fringe that they will like that bill even less. Two thirds of the American people want a viable compromise.
Someone should tell the people in the Beltway that now is not the time to hold your breath until your face turns blue.
The Senate has confirmed the Rule of Law and American soverignty mean nothing. In the face of illegals spitting in our faces, defiling the flag, and outrageous behavior in our back yard, the Senate has the audacity to reward such behavior. The politians who voted for this will face a day of reconning at the ballot box. The only hope we have is for the House conferees to reject this amnesty program as it is unsalvageable. The best that we Americans can do is Just Say No to those Democratic and Republican Senators who stabbed us in the back. There is a difference between compromising on laws that govern us and compromising our soverignty and borders. Other countries (including Mexico) realize this and don’t tolerate the invasion that has occurred in our country.
correction to last sentence. Other countries (including Mexico) realize this and don’t tolerate an invasion over their country’s borders
While I understand the emotion and importance of this issue not only to our country but around the world, the difficulty I see is the inability of many to understand this problem did not begin in the last 6 months.
Congress and every President in the recent past has chosen to ignore the infiltration of our country perhaps because of blind ignorance or maybe (and this is my guess), it is such a political hot potato. Does this mean we should continue to ignore …NO..does it mean that the current President tried to begin this process many years ago by addressing a guest worker program YES. You may not like this idea, but like Social Security, this President was not afraid of the “hard issues” right from the beginning of his first term.
Now we at least have “something,” it is a beginning and until I see the end result I refuse to fall into that camp that follows the MSM and immediately uses the panic mode we all lived with for 8 years of a past administration to criticize without all facts on the table.
When you consider the political implications of this issue, please stop and think how many attacks there have been on the President just in the past year…perhaps it will explain why this is such a volitile issue not that far out from a mid-term election. My opinion is, hold our fire until we see a final product, then voice our approval or disapproval. The Dems and MSM can come up with enough negative points (most of what I have seen unsubstantiated) to use against Conservatives and this President and unless in my mind it is fully deserved, I will not participate.
AJ,
You said this: “I am just not interested in that discussion anymore.”
Read the whole “comprehensive” immigration reform bill. I assure you that you will change your mind or at the least have concerns about the implications from the bill.
Please, get back to your readers once you read the bill. Ok?
Sometimes you just can’t compromise.
So what do people want to do with these 11 million people? Shoot them?
I keep hearing over and over and over that they do not want amnesty, but what do they want? Mass deportation? According to Gallup about 21% of the American public wants to see the population equivalent of the state of Ohio loaded on buses or cattle cars at gun point or whatever is entailed in mass deportation. If not this, then what? That is my frustration. For all the ranting and raving about no amnesty I have never heard a realistic intelligent discussion as to what they do want. They say, just enforce the laws. Fine, do it, right now, whose stopping you? Whose been stopping you for years and years? If it were that simple, why wasn’t it accomplished long ago?
Childish, petty and self destructive behavior on the part of hardliners will bring defeat to Republicans and a possible victory to Democrats who are far more liberal. The Senate is trying to deal with a problem, that is more than can be said for most of the people complaining about them.
BTW, there are drug dealers all over the country selling poison to children to every day. We know who they are, we see them. But I don’t see people getting half as upset about these parasites as they get about landscapers and nannies. Illegal entry is a misdeamenor, not a capitol offence.
coffee:
That is what the Confederates said right up until Appomatax.
This is an extremely disappointing and dangerous bill. After being promised that illegals would not be given amnesty, we find that our politicians have done just that. The one thing I have not seen anywhere (on the blogs, that is. I don’t waste my time with the dinosaur media)is what the penalty will be for those who refuse to follow the law. Who is to be charged with enforcement and what will be done with those who violate the terms of the program? Immigration laws have been ignored for 20 years. Hell, we have cities which absolutely refuse to even identify illegals, never mind require they obey the law. Who will force San Francisco, L.A. and so many others to honor legislation they have been pleased to ignore for decades? The US Senate is currently roaring with laughter at the morons in the public who actually believe this is a serious bill. Enforcement will be impossible, penalties will be non-existent and the entire thing will be thrown out in 6-12 months. And the senate knows it. I hope to God conservatives in the house will stick to their guns and support the people who elected them. If they knuckle under to the leftist pressure of the media and democratic party and allow this mess to become law we might as well sign up for Spanish lessons. They will have taken over the US in 30 years.
Illegals flock to this nation for four principle reasons: work, free stuff, citizenship for newborns and profit from crime. Imprison business owners caught with illegal employees; provide social services, health care, welfare, food stamps etc for citizens only; deport those who break the law and change the law which gives automatic citizenship to children born of illegal mothers. Our illegal problem will solve itself as mexicans will begin making their way to the border, this time to cross in the right direction. Unfortunately, our elected officials will never do it.
The sad part is that some people actually believe that. Politics, at least good politics, is all about compromise. Otherwise it is called “dictatorship”. America is a big country with political thought that spans the entire spectrum. In a good law, no one side is going to get everything they want. Unless you hold both houses of Congress with a 2/3 majority and a President of the same party, you aren’t going to go anywhere. Refusing to compromise will result in one finding onesself marginalized as “the network routes around the outage”.
There is a time and a place to be stubborn. This isn’t one of them. The risk is getting nothing at all and keeping things the way they are now with no changes and that would be the worst possible outcome.
Crosspatch:
Exactly!
The general public are not pundits or partisans, they just want results. They have no desire to hurt people if they don’t have to and their number one concern is security. Surely there is a solution in there somewhere.
No one, no one is saying deport these illegals tomorrow. Is there an alternative, you bet. First, crack down hard on those who employ illegals. If you take away the jobs, the incentive to come and stay will be diminished. In fact they might go home.
Second, drop the catch and release program. If caught deport them immediately.
Third, stop the flood across the border. I don’t care if you put national guards, a fence, or crocadiles. This has got to stop.
You talk about being marginalized because you have the notion it is radical to want border security and legal immigration. Let me tell you about marginalization. Here in California, we already have been marginalized, because illegals get to vote. Illegally, don’t you know! Have you ever heard how Representative Bob Dornan lost his seat to an hispanic woman and the courts didn’t care.
You say, give it a chance. I seem to remember Ronald Reagan trying the same amnesty program. If it didn’t work 20 years ago, why should it work now?
Here in the southwest, we are drowning in illegals. I heard today the population of LA is now nearly 50%. Don’t believe it? Look at the population of Las Vegas. All the white Angelinos moved there and took their jobs with them. Ever been to the border counties like San Diego and Imperial Counties in California. English is a second language there. Call me when you lost our country and tell me we over reacted.
Just a few thoughts:
1. Fences work. We have seen them work in San Diego.
2. The Mexicans we see as illegals, are helping our economy and their families back in Mexico. Proper documention, ie a guest worker program, should allow this win/win situation to continue in a controlled and commonsense way. The structure and incentives should make it clear that the “guest workers” will go home. There should be other paths to citizen ship if that is what one of the workers wants. Many will not want to go through the long and arduous process of earning citizenship. Fine. They can go home and build their communtities there.
3. An open border is madness and dangerous to boot. We must control the border. What has many people so upset is that we have been faking our efforts to control the border for years. We have not been serious. We were not serious about dealing with the War on Terror either. Now we must deal with both issues no matter how much the politicions want to go back to the old status quo.
4. An illegal population that exists outside the law, even if most of them are hardworking and honest, supports or hides those that are criminal. A huge percentage of our prison population is made up of illegals. I think that I read that this was up to 1/3 in some cases.
We must stop catch and release. We must get rid of the criminal illegals. Interestingly, we need to cooperate with their country of origin even as we do this. We have sent back enough criminals and gangbangers to threaten to destablize some contries in Central America. Think of the M13 gang. These guys are dangerous to everyone.
5. Amnesty which is the first thing on the pandering politicians minds, should be the last priority. Giving illegals a hand in our social security cooky jar, seems madness and yet that is what the Senate has hurried to do. Fundamentaly, our politicians have failed us on this issue and now they are scared. There is no need to hurry, if we work on the security part first, other things will fall in line. Seal the border!
6. And a last note in praise of Mexicans. We trust individual Mexicans with the security of our houses and children not to mention the hot and hard jobs. We are lucky to have them as neighbors. We could do much worse. The Mexican government is in transition from a single party socialist model to something more democratic and freemarket. These are our friends and we do not want them dying in our desert.
I do know one thing or at least I saw one thing reported. It is estimated that over 50% of all illegals here entered legally. They didn’t sneak over the border. They came on legitimate student or tourist or other entry and stayed. The number of illegals here didn’t come overnight, they have been accumulating for a long time. Also, I would say that 50% of LA being illegal aliens is exaggerated, probably by an order of magnitude.
I highly recommend viewing the commentary today at the following
http://powerlineblog.com/archives/014194.php
I believe it is well worth the read.
granit:
The Senate bill does not say that people will not be deported, in fact everyone who has come here in the last 2 or 2 years will be deported. There are others that will have to leave and come back. The only illegals that will be given a chance at citizenship about 11 years from now will be the ones who have been here for several years, can pass a background check, pay a fine, pay back taxes and are employed and not on assistance. Maybe some of the Cnogressmen and women in the southwest together with big city mayors and Governors and state houses need to be doing more to work toward a compromise that will help deal with the problem than just complaining.
I know people in the midwest who are wondering why it is the border state Governors were complaining on one hand while at least two of them could not even be bothered to get behind putting a few thousand Guardsmen on their border.
that should be 2 or 3 years.
Lets see Crosspatch I quoted 50% of the illegals make up LA. You say thats off by an order of magnitude. That makes about 5%. Funny, that 5% must be nearly 50% in our southern California schools and at at our hospitals. I wondered where they all went.
You don’t think there is a problem and do you really believe all of these illegals are hard working contributers to our society. Then how come they don’t pay taxes? Exactly who do you think is footing the bill for our crowded schools, our financially distressed hospitals, our over crowed jails?
Get real. If you’ve been in LA you would think differently. Also try the south part of San Diego County and All of Imperial County as other examples. Also Riverside County and San Bernardino County etc. etc.