Jun 01 2006
More Immigrants To Punish!
** Folks, do I really need to write “sarcasm on”? Go to some sites raging against immigration and see where I got the ideas from! ***
Hey, someone tell Michael Savage that there are a whole bunch of criminals who need to be deported at gunpoint! They had the proper paperwork to work here, but due to some confusion the dates on the papers will go invalid (you know, like driving with an expired drivers license) and now all those people who want to perp-walk these dangerous criminals to the border have their chance!
Tens of thousands of Honduran and Nicaraguan immigrants nationwide risk losing their legal status in the United States today because they have not renewed their temporary work permits under a program to help victims of natural disasters, some in the mistaken belief that they will soon be on the path to becoming U.S. citizens.
With the deadline approaching by the end of today, about half the eligible applicants have yet to apply for renewal. They could lose their jobs and face deportation, jeopardizing the livelihoods of thousands of relatives here and in their homelands who depend on their salaries.
About 75,000 Hondurans and 4,000 Nicaraguans got the permits, issued under the Temporary Protected Status (TPS) Program, after Hurricane Mitch in 1998. The permits, if renewed, would allow them to live and work legally in the United States for another year.
Why don’t you zero-summers go get your shot guns, and round up these miscreants if the feds don’t do it? Why not go to the schools and yank the kids out of kindergarten? That way the parents won’t try to resist.
You can go to their jobs and get them too. It doesn’t matter that they had commitments to people to do something in those jobs. Any American’s who were relying on these people deserve what they get for hiring ‘illegals’! And why should you care that these people were victims of a natural disaster and lost everthing. You’d think they would have dealt with that by now!
This is a perfect time to show your humanity and compassion zero-summers. Go out and get these evil doers and make them pay!
And expect more commentary like this in the future. We could be looking at nightly re-runs of the Elian Gonzales story (who was an illegal alien – damn him) where all you folks who want deportation get to play Janet Reno and Bill Clinton. Won’t that be fun?
“Why don’t you zero-summers go get your shot guns, and rond up these miscreants if the feds don’t do it? Why not go to te schools and yank the kids out of kindergarten? That way the parents won’t try to resist.”
And why must you resort to hysterical rhetoric to further your opinion? Why must you represent those who do not agree with you as gun toting, radical vigilantes who want to take illegals out at the point of a gun, Nazi style, and load them on cattle cars to be deported? Using the Howard Dean-Ted Kennedy School of Persuasion methods should be beneath you.
BTW, according to the Wet Foot-Dry Foot laws Elian Gonzales was not an illegal and should have been allowed to remain in the United States.
What is next? Branding those of us who believe in the rule of law “racists”? I am sure my fellow Tejanos will be glad to know they are “racists”.
I am quite sure that those Hondurans and Nicaraguans were never told that their permits were only good for a certain length of time and that they would have to renew them. No, we probably just gave out those permits without telling them that so that we could have the pleasure of “rounding them up at the point of a gun” and deporting them.
When you reduce your argument to slandering those that do not agree with you, you have already lost the argument.
Aside from the smarmy sarcasm, don’t you think it bespeaks a fairly loose control of immigration that these TPS designations have been automatically renewed for 8 years? How long does it take for a country to recover from a hurricane?
Aside from that, it is obviously a fairly well-accepted notion among the non-naturalized immigrant population (regardless of their illegal or legal status), that they have little to fear from the immigration authorities as a result of flaunting the laws that supposedly control them. Do you honestly feel it is a radical idea to tighten up the way we handle immigration into this country?
Perhaps my most sincerely held impression concerning immigration is that large portions of the populations of other countries seem to have the heartfelt belief that they somehow have an absolute right to be in America simply because we have it better than they and they want what we’ve got. While I can empathize with the desire, I believe that “immigration light” will not help to maintain our standard of living and advancement as well as requiring people to observe the discipline required to enter legally. The current official laxity and cavalier attitude toward the law, combined with a desire of the government to be all things to all people is, I think, reminiscent of the welfare state programs which have been shown to be counterproductive both in this country and those where many of these people come from.
That said, I think the discussion would more fruitfully be centered on how many of what type of people we need and want, and how to make that work within an efficient and transparent, and yes, enforceable program. The basic disagreement in the comments to your past two or three posts have to do with a disciplined legal approach as opposed to a lax, blank-check approach.
The acrimonius give-and-take in the comments concerning the fate of those already here are, I think, secondary discussions that would dissipate once there is agreement on a logical and practical immigration policy that is rooted in National needs. The acrimony seems to be a result of pinning one another in the corner to explain positions that are more visceral than logical (though none-the-less important for that). Added to that are some truley nonsensical provisions in the Senate Bill added, I think to stake out negotiating positions more than as serious proposals. These things fire the emotions, as an issue so important to the Nation should, but all will come out in the end.
If the government wants to deport anyone all they have to do is send a letter, no guns necessary.
In 1998 a colleague of mine who just happened be from Denmark, her husband and their son(who was born on American soil) were forced to leave America after living here for over a decade because their sponsor had a tax problem.
If believing that illegal does not mean legal then consider me a nativist for believing in the law and not emotional racism based upon inclusionary ideas. The very idea that Spanish is taught above all other languages , that Mexicans -only are the poor downtrodden deserving to ursurp the law, or that multi-culturalism is more important than being American is the antithesis of what real immigration is defined as: a melting pot.
Please remember that with the exception of blacks all of our ancestors came to this country legally.
Strata-sphere I have respected your moderate stance however your attempt to infuse emotional blackmail is rationally ineffective when you deny the primary cause of our immigration problem, that being, illegal immigration.
I want people from around the world to come to America, I simply consider it important it be done legally. Attempting to make people feel bad about themselves for not accepting illegal activity is blackmail.
Actually, most blacks came here legally. Slaves were sold by West African tribes to shippers and traders and sold in legal slave markets in the New World. But that’s another, more unfortunate story….
My wife’s large extended family emigrated from Indonesia through the Netherlands to California. Legally, I might add. When one of her cousins was convicted of selling marijuana, he was deported despite his naturalized citizenship. That’s the way it is.
These Dutch-Indonesians were double-refugees and came here speaking Dutch. There were no special language programs and the children all learned English, became citizens and became Californians, with better tans. That’s the way it’s supposed to work.
We should legalize most of the illegals via a guest worker route. Making citizens of most of them is a mistake.
And, really, secure the border.
OFF THE DEEP END AGAIN!!!
Any American’s who were relying on these people deserve what they get for hiring ‘illegals’!
THEY WEREN’T ILLEGAL, THEY CAME IN ON TPS
Hey, someone tell Michael Savage that there are a whole bunch of criminals who need to be deported at gunpoint!
WHY do you keep pointing to Michael Savage? Is he advocating shooting someone? I haven’t heard that, only from you.
some in the mistaken belief that they will soon be on the path to becoming U.S. citizens.
Because off the bleeding heart liberals that want a “comprehensive bill” passed to give them Amnesty.
Temporary Protected Status (TPS) Program, after Hurricane Mitch in 1998.
What is the definition of Temporary, If it is for life, why not just drop the T and give them outright citizenship?
Why not go to the schools and yank the kids out of kindergarten?
They’re here temporarily and they’ve got children in school here? Who are all these people back home they’re sending money to if they’re all here with them.
This is a perfect time to show your humanity and compassion zero-summers. Go out and get these evil doers and make them pay!
And you, not being a zero-summer, would be a what?
I’ve always had your blog in the Conservative list, I’m moving it over the the Liberals.
Just as a rule of thumb, I put hysterics in the liberal category.
I have read about the Mike Pence’s Proposal to build a guest worker program to facilitate the documentation process for current illegal aliens. Three things appeal to me on this proposal. One, it focusses on the issue about legal behavior. We need immigrants to respect our laws and get them to understand that we are a nation of laws — without this we have no country. Second, it recognizes that government is not the best solution for handling the 12 million illegals who need to be processed and checked with the speed and efficiency of private industry. Our federal government needs to be the architect and the auditor of these “mini Ellis island” processing centers but private industry needs to run them for cost and processing efficiency. Thirdly, it draws attention to the magnet of the problem — employers who want cheap labor but are not able to verify these are legal workers. This is the free market but we need to have some regulations on the marketplace which prevents abuses and controls corruption.
I still believe that some sort of path for citizenship should exist for these people once they have gone through this process, but only to be pointed to the back of the immigration line.
For Enforcement,
Hysterics or simply some biting humor that puts a mirror up to some folks who are raging against immigrants? You can call me whatever you like – but that is how most people see this. And it won’t erase the image in the mirror.
Syn,
Do you accept speeding? If so you accept legal activity. I think you can now get off that high horse. I am being moderate! I am not raging against people who do not have all their paperwork in order as if that was enough to yank them from home and work and deport them.
Oh well, if you feel that is a radical position I can’t stop you!
“Hysterics or simply some biting humor that puts a mirror up to some folks who areraginag against immigrants?”
Once again, AJ, you put a spin on it. No one is “raging” against immigration. We are against ILLEGAL immigration. Legal immigration is not only the American way, it is necessary to our social structure. And I know of no one who is against LEGAL immigration.
And while you reduce federal immigration laws to “paperwork” you rail over the fact that illegals ignore your neighborhood by-laws by violating them.
No once have I ever tried to insult you. I have not called you any names even though I think your opinion is wrongheaded. Perhaps I have more respect for those whose opinions are different than mine. And yes, when you represent those of differing opinions as gun-toting vigilantes who want to round illegals up in the middle of the night and yank children from kindergarten, you reduce your argument to the “radical” side.
BTW, because they did not accept the status-quo and say “gee, the best we can get is a compromise” I am sure you would have considered the Founding Fathers “radicals”. Maybe they just didn’t have mirrors.
I saw a comment not long ago on one of right wing blogs that said just that.
If I remember correctly the guy said that a million armed men on the border could shoot and kill the “illegal invaders”.
Needless to say we don’t hear this kind of thing every day, but it is amazing how slow some people are to point out how nasty a comment like that is. They just kind of snicker and move on.
I hear these kinds of remarks are helping the socialist candidate in Mexico. That hardline thing can work both ways. The new man in Bolivia is nationalizing everything, he gave foreign owned companies 6 months to get out or he will take their assets. He has threatened to do away with personal property. I shudder to think what the result might be if someone like that ended up on our border.
About a hundred years a million or so Mexicans died in a revolution and Pershing ended up chasing after Pancho Villa. Bad as Fox is, it could get a lot worse.
AJ
No sir I do not accept speeding because it’s against the law and I will be punished with a costly ticket for illegally driving over the legal speed limit.
Speed laws are designed primarily to protect citizens, like preventing all sorts of drivers from speeding through school zones possibly killing children.
Same can be applied to our immigration laws which also were designed to protect citizens. I do hear concerns about identity theft, violation of private property, health care deterioration, job loss but I have as yet heard anyone speak against legal immigration.
Having one’s paperwork in order is not the same thing as having illegal papers authorizing your ability to work legally. This is the point at which you and I part ways. If we rely upon emotional decorum to rationalize oursleves into legalizing illegal behavior then whenever illegal behavior occurs we will lose our ability to enforce laws .
The government already has sufficient immigration laws available and what disturbs me about this debate is that our government has purposedully ignored these laws since Reagan.
I am deeply concerned as to why our government has allowed for some 11 million people to illegally migrate into America. If it is true that we needed to fulfill a workforce quota why then did our government go about achieving this quota illegally?
On a personal moral level I detest the idea that America is importing humans as if they were a commodity to shuffle around all the while establishing a permanent under-class. Press one for English Press 2 para espanola.
If we need mass legal immigration why not do it the old fashion way, at the very least re-open Ellis Island and allow all good folks to come to our shores, take a physical exam and provide documents identifying who they are and where they are from. The primary function of the US government is to protect and defend its citzens and the borders inside which we are defined. I expect my elected officals to carry out this duty and do it legally.
Syn,
Gimme a break! You don’t ignore all those people speeding on the roads? Why aren’t you calling them all in? Even 1 mph our the limit? Do you know no one get’s tickets for 1 mph over the limit!
LOL! Thanks – I needed a good laugh.
Syn,
BTW, the current law does not require immediate deportation in everycase of illegal entry. There are options for redress and challenges, asylum requests and appeals….
How in the world do you think we got here over the last 1oo years?
There was a Texas DPS officer who was assigned to the state highway not far from my home. It was a speedway as people rushed to get to work in Austin and traffic accidents were common place. This officer decided he would put a stop to it.
Usually, if you were driving 5 miles an hour or less over the speed limit the DPS would not give you a ticket. Not so with this officer. He was a former UT quarterback and believed in playing by the rules. One mile, 20 miles over the limit, didn’t make any difference. He pulled you over. Oh, yes, there were complaints, but only from the ones he ticketed. But accidents became the exception not the norm and yet, traffic continued to flow.
He was reassigned to another district. The new DPS went back to the 5 mile an hour rule. Traffic accidents once again increased, and three people were killed in a horrible accident that was due to speed. (gives new meaning to give someone a mile and they will take 20).
The locals in that area called the DPS and demanded that Officer M be sent back because when he was on duty our highway was as safe as he could make it for us. He was not sent back but the officer who was there took up Officer M’s cause and since then we have had no serious speed related accidents.
So you see, AJ, some people do want the rules followed. So people do not think that it is OK to thumb your nose at a law because it is inconvenient. Some believe that it is just as wrong to speed as it is to jump our border.
Laws are put upon us for the general welfare. Legal immigration is in the interest of the general welfare. ILLEGAL immigration is not.
AJ
The police issue speeding tickets when someone is caught speeding, just as INS is suppose to keep track of who enters the country. If each citizen took it upon themselves to police other citzens we’d have anarchy.
I haven’t mentioned immediate deportation since it is impossible to deport 11 million undocumented people because of negligence on the part of our government over the last 20 years out of the 100 years you mentioned.
In any case, your fear that somehow america is going to line up non-citizens in some massive deportation scheme tearing children out of schools and ripping families apart is not the manner in which our government deports non-citizens. Exception may be Reno’s aggregious act towards a US citizen is something I recall the Republicans broadly declared uncivil.
I gave an example of a Danish friend, her husband and the American-born child who were required to leave America after a decade of establishing a home here. All the government has to do is send a letter then there is opportunity of redress etc.
Basically AJ, what I am trying to say is if it is easier to come into America illegally why would anyone ever attempt to come here legally again and if illegal activity is rewarded over legal activity why then have any laws at all.
I suppose my Danish friend, her husband and their American born child would still be living here in NYC if they had illegally immigrated to America yet, no matter how much I adore them I would not encourage them to break the our laws.
Regards
And now, for the rest of the story:
In May, ’01, President Bush granted a one-year extension of the Temporary Protected Status to Hondurand and Guatelmalans where were already in the United States by December, ’98 when Hurricane Mitch hit Honduran and Guatelmala. The one year extension applied to about 5,300 Nicaraguans and 105,000 Hondurans who had ALREADY REGISTERED for Temporary Protected Status.
In May, ’02, the INS under the direction of President Bush, announced another one-year extension for these same Nicaraguans and Hondurans. This extension allowed them to stay another year.
What triggered my curosity was the fact that Mitch was in 1998. The original number was 110,000. Now the number of those who have let their TPS expire is 79,000. 75,000 Hondurans and 4,000 Nicaraguans. That means that at least 31,000 of the Hondurans and Nicaraguans have either a) increased their status to that of permanent resident or b) returned to their native lands.
And while AJ wishes to tug at the strings of our hearts because they are subject to deportation, the fact is that the original number of 110,000 were those who HAD REGISTERED FOR THE PROGRAM.
Once again, I guess the INS failed to tell them that their TPS would expire and they would have to renew it AGAIN OR LEAVE THE COUNTRY. I am sure that the INS did this because we all know that they wanted to just round them up, at the point of a gun, and ship them out on cattle tankers.
AJ, I have only recently begun daily watching your posts, as I have heard about you from such sites as Hugh Hewitt’s.
By the way, I agree with his assessment that you are a great read on a daily basis.
However, I think that you might be missing a few things in your assessment of the immigration debate.
For one, I would propose that there is a major difference between the the attitudes of residents in states with a high degree of “liberal” (to which may be described as ‘progressive’)
States as opposed to “conservative” States.
I am personally from Texas, my father is from Laredo, Texas (right on the border) and my grandmother (PBUH) was from the homeland of Mexico. Actually she was born here (Laredo) but from the inconvenient fact that my great grandparents were from Guadalajara, she never gained citizenship. (remember, my grandmother was born in 1879)
Anyway, down in Texas, it is tougher than it is in a “liberal” state such as California to make a living. We (TX) do not allow the prerogatives of citizenship upon illegals as they do in CA.
It seems to follow, through my own personal experience (having spent extensive time in both states (at least five years) that the Texas model works so much better.
For one thing, illegal immigrants are not allowed welfare on nearly the scale that CA allows. For another, we do not have an income tax, it is solely a sales tax. That means that any illegal that lives here actually has to pay their share, simply on the basis of what they consume.
If we could convince the “reality” communiy to take a look at such solutions as have been applied in Texas, where many Mexicans are considered as just a part of the community, we would be much better off.
There is a “conservative” answer to this problem.
Abolish all state income taxes, and replace them with consumption taxes, and do the same on the federal scale, i.e., The Fair Tax, as proposed by Boortz and Linder (H.S. 25, I think).
The difference in crime rates between Texas and California are huge (probably also due to conceal carry laws, please check them out. Also, check out the birth rates.
Give any human a free ride (Congress?), and you will always see corruption.
George W., who I have voted for four times now, comes from a state that knows how to deal with illegal Mexicans. This is evident in his speeches.
It is truly a pity that the rest of the country is too busy “experimenting with government solutions” to realize one simple fact: assimilate, do not discriminate, and prosecute when necessary.
Do a little research on all of the four border states, and you will see that the greatest benefits from illegals has always been Texas’ approach.
Thank you for your time.
Dennis,
Yes, I do find it troubling these people have been here for eight years. One of the things I wanted in a guest worker program (possibly funded by a special tax on employers of guest workers) was a program to help immigrants assimilate and depart. Housing, etc would something that could be difficult to deal with if rental agreements don’t line up with work permit dates. Anyway, this program could help these people return to their homelands. Something has to be done because 8 years is way too long to hide from a hurricane.
Syn,
The police do not give a ticket everutime they see someone speeding. You know that and I know that. And they never give tickets for 5 mph over the limit.