Jun 02 2013
Forensics Proves Zimmerman’s Account Was Fabricated
George Zimmerman is going on trial for shooting an unarmed kid (Trayvon Martin) as he strolled through his neighborhood chatting with his girlfriend on the phone. This threatening act (walking and talking) raised warning flags for Sheriff George, self-proclaimed neighborhood watch captain who somehow forgot neighborhood watch are never armed and should never confront people. Zimmerman called in this suspicious African-American kid to police, but when Zimmerman’s stalking finally unnerved young Trayvon Martin – who then tried to flee – Sheriff George violated all aspects of neighborhood watch training and went after Martin armed.
What ensued has never been fully understood, and may never be. But one thing we do know is Goerge Zimmerman’s account is fictional – since physics and forensics prove beyond a doubt what did happen could not have happened the way Zimmerman claims.
Recently a news segment was presented that went over some of the evidence. But as usual it missed the most obvious fictions in Zimmerman’s claims, while actually demonstrating them through reenactment. Before we go to the video, it is important to review the testimony to date from Zimmerman. (Most of this was presented in an earlier post)
A friend of Zimmerman’s provided this testimony to police on what George Zimmerman told him happened (Record 52 from this record of evidence, starting page 77 – click to enlarge):
What is described would be something like this position:
Butt on stomach, knees at ribs. George Zimmerman himself gave nearly identical statements that night and the day afterward.
At one point in this video, where police are asking Zimmerman to go over events, Zimmerman claims Martin ‘sat up’ after being shot and said ‘you got me’ (which is pretty dumb, it was more likely ‘you shot me!’). So clearly Martin was mounted on George’s stomach leaning over, if he “sat up” when shot.
During this interview, more physically impossible claims come out into the open.
First off, Zimmerman demonstrates where he wears his holster, which is on the right hip and basically on his back. He unconsciously shows this when he talks about grabbing for his gun:
Then he claims Trayvon Martin, sitting on top but apparently with x-ray vision, sees the gun under his hip. Even with Zimmerman standing and from the side I cannot see where Zimmerman’s hand is in this picture. Put yourself square in front and close and it is clear there is NO line of site to the gun or holster. Like I said, only x-ray vision could find that gun which would be pinned to the ground under Zimmerman’s back and likely his jacket as well.
Then there is the a second problem. With Martin’s butt on Zimmerman’s stomach, getting the gun out of the holster is problematic. Zimmerman takes this challenging action one step further by claiming he has to pin Trayvon’s reaching hand to his own side WHILE pulling the gun out of the holster. A holster pinned between his back and the ground. When Zimmerman shows this trick it becomes evident the limitations of the human arm and wrist come into play:
I have never seen a draw quite like that, especially laying on your back. He cannot physically reach his gun on his hip while pinning the Martin’s arm to his side – plain and simple.
In his reenactment video, Martin is sitting on his stomach when Zimmerman claims he pulls and fires the gun. And that is when forensics and physics expose the fiction once again.
I have noted many times the trajectory of the bullet in Martin’s body does not fit with the positions Zimmerman claims he and Martin were in. Here is one person’s estimate of the trajectory from the autopsy reports:
And here are the shooting angles available to Zimmerman from the position he claims he was in when he shot Martin:
Not even close in terms of trajectory inside Martin’s body. There is no straight path from the gun through the chest from this position. None.
Now let’s go to the latest reenactment and see how they try to match the trajectory of the bullet to events. First we see the person acting out Zimmerman’s role laying on the ground. When you watch the video, note how he pulls his his toy gun from the same basic place as Zimmerman – his waistband over his hip and from under his coat. But the person playing Zimmerman had to pull the gun BEFORE he got on the ground! This because it is impossible to pull a gun from under a coat (not to mention out of a holster you wear inside your pants) when you are laying on your back (pinning coat and holster to the ground – click to enlarge):
OK, some things to note from the above image. The guy playing Trayvon Martin is not sitting on the stomach of the man playing Zimmerman. If he were, the man on the ground – even though he pulled his gun prior to laying on his back – would have almost no way to get the gun pointed towards Martin. Knees and arms would block the aim of the gun. For this to work, Martin needs to be standing like we see here – which is why Zimmerman is in so much legal trouble.
The next snap shows the man playing Zimmerman pulling the gun and pointing it at the pretend Martin:
This position does work forensically, but it completely blows Zimmerman’s account out of the water. Here Zimmerman is standing, not mounted or straddling. How could the man playing Martin be reaching for the gun under the back hip of the man on the ground? How could the gun be held like this if Martin was sitting on Zimmerman’s stomach, with his knees on Zimmerman’s ribs? How could Martin – after being shot – “sit up” and speak his last words on this Earth?
This scenario works if – and this is all speculation on my part – if Martin was getting off of Zimmerman. Then it would be possible for Zimmerman to finally reach for his gun. Probably while holding Martin by the collar or something so he could not run away a 2nd time.
Update: This interview is pretty damning (and long). In it the detective lays out all the holes in Zimmerman’s statements. Tons of them. It is why the trial should have been called for in any event. In it, at time mark 28.03, Zimmerman does state he was holding Martin’s wrist with one hand and then shot him in the chest with the other. If you combine this with the bullet’s trajectory, then it is likely Martin was on his feet trying to pull away when he was executed. So the above scene does work, but only of Martin is trying to get away – and likely screaming for help as he tries to flee.
BTW, the detective correctly notes Zimmerman had no legal right to confront Zimmerman. Not for the crime of walking through the neighborhood. Something too many Zimmerman defenders fail to recognize. ‘Armed’ does not mean empowered to play cop. – end update
This is what I think happened, especially given the goofy dialogue Zimmerman claims Martin used during the altercation. That dialogue fits Zimmerman more than Martin. I think Martin was trying to get away and Zimmerman held him while he pulled his gun.
The audio of Zimmerman’s testimony the night of the shooting is pretty clear on what Zimmerman claimed happened:
- At time mark 14:59 Zimmerman states Martin stops slamming his head against the concrete and puts his hands over his nose and mouth. To do that and hold his hands in place would indicate Martin is sitting on him, pushing down the clamp off his breathing.
- At time mark 15:32 Zimmerman claims as Martin bangs his head again (while reaching for the gun…) he shoots him. Martin holding Zimmerman’s head while Zimmerman shoots just does not work with the above forensics.
- At time mark 15:40 Zimmerman confirms he is on his back, Martin is ‘mounted’ on top of him. Not standing.
Zimmerman’s written statement is also clear. Zimmerman stated over and over again Martin was on him, holding him down, trying to suffocate him. Which of course makes it impossible for Zimmerman to be the one screaming for help on the audio – screams that end with the gun shot.
Zimmerman is locked into the claim Martin was straddled on top of him, with Martin’s hands on Zimmerman’s head, and with Martin reaching around Zimmerman’s back for his gun, when Zimmerman pulled his gun and fired. But that is the one position that cannot work with the bullet’s path or the limitations of the arm and wrist. The physics of the evidence confirms Zimmerman’s statements are fiction. And that will be his undoing. Forensics cannot prove what actually happened, but with Martin dead and Zimmerman admitting he did the shooting, all you need to prove is Zimmerman’s alibi is fiction and he should be found guilty.
Update: Jazz Shaw at Hot Air cannot understand why Trayvon’s actions and activities outside his night time walk and talk the evening he was shot is not evidence. It is clear why – the only person on trial is George Zimmerman, and George Zimmerman was the one armed and who put himself into harm’s way. Shaw does not seem to think Martin, who suffered from being a typical American teenager with all the typical screw ups, had a right to pursue life, liberty and happiness. He seems to think Zimmerman should be able to prove his SUSPICIONS of Martin, gleaned from glances on a rainy Florida evening, were somehow prescient.
For Shaw, I give the obvious analogy. When a woman charges a man with a violent rape (and for the sake of argument, let’s assume she was a victim of violent rape), does the defense have a right to bring up her dates from years past, her romantic evenings with other men, or a one time drunken binge (which nearly everyone has done once)? Of course not. If the events were at different times (or years) to the incident at triak, they are not germane. Victims do not need to be pure angles to receive justice.
Martin does not have to be some reflection of 1950’s family fictional child to be provided justice. That is just silly.
Justice has been done, the perpetrator is dead. I don’t think there’s any chance at all that Zimmerman will be convicted of anything.
“all you need to prove is Zimmerman’s alibi is fiction and he should be found guilty.”
Is just a bit off. You have to prove guilt beyond all reasonable doubt.
This is interesting spin on what may or not be factual representations about what happened that night.
It will be an interesting trial and Zimmerman will probably walk.
Man, oh man, you are on a jihad path here…
Or you just try to protect your bad investment in this subject so far.
Let it go…
actually it has already been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman shot Martin. The only question is is that proffered by his claim of self-defense which itself is propped up only by his story, if that story falls so does his claim of self-defense and all he is left with is the legal weight of having shot and killed an unarmed minor. So you see, if Zimmerman’s story goes, we can be certain beyond a reasonable doubt that he is guilty of killing Trayvon Martin, he already admitted as much.
I understand completely that this is your blog and you choose what you wish to write about. But this obsession with finding Zimmerman guilty undermines all the other great things you discuss with thoughtfulness and seriousness.
I used to enjoy your blog and quit reading it approx. 1 year ago because of the avalanche of “Zimmerman is guilty” posts. The U.S. has a fine legal tradition that is founded on the idea of innocence unless proven otherwise IN A COURT OF LAW. Not by amateur lawyers, forensic analysts, court of public opinion, TV talking heads working to fill the 24/7 news cycle, bloggers, etc.
I hope you do not have a nervous breakdown when Zimmerman walks.
All the best.
Tzar, you’re right, it is pretty conclusive that Zimmerman killed Martin, but whether it is self defense or murder is the question. It is reasonable to assume that a thug is the reason the thug is dead. It is not reasonable to assume that justice will be served. It seems that Florida is assembling a railroad to ensure that he is found guilty despite the facts. Seems to be completely racial, facts be damned.
Sirius33, ditto.
Sorry but, given the available evidence, you make way too many false and deeply questionable assertions for this be taken seriously or responded to.
I hope you have a great day.
Bravo Sirius,
AJ had Zimmerman guilty before any facts were in, just on the assumption of “I know the type.”
I cannot agree with him on this one.
OL
Tzar said: “Sorry but, given the available evidence, you make way too many false and deeply questionable assertions for this be taken seriously or responded to. ”
Huh? did I miss something? then why did you take it seriously enough to respond to it.
I’m very aware of the known facts of the case and if justice is served there is not a chance in Heck that Zimmerman will be convicted of anything. The case has been completely ‘argued’ and there is no sense in beating a dead horse. You have your opinion, I have mine, mine is not going to change.
I’m frankly not very impressed with the strength of reasoning in the OP. AJ doesn’t seem to realize that this was a dynamic situation: the men were moving around and struggling with one another. You can’t just take one freeze-framed moment from that struggle and declare that, from THAT position, it would be impossible for GZ to reach his gun. Well, you CAN, but it’s irrelevant: One more second of movement and struggling could have completely altered the positions of the two men in a way that could in fact permit GZ to reach his gun.
As for the angle of the bullet wound, all that’s necessary is for the gun barrel to have been pointing perpendicular to TM’s chest at the instant the trigger was pulled. The wrist alone can cock about 90 degrees, without taking into account the range of motion of the shoulder and elbow. Clearly, there are any number of ways GZ could have gotten the gun into that position with TM more or less on top of him.
I don’t know what’s going to happen at the trial, but I can’t seen how the evidence in the public domain could possibly establish guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. There’s plenty of credible evidence that TM was on top of GZ, hitting him, and that GZ was screaming for help. Forensics shows the shot was filed at very close range — close enough for TM to have been trying to get the gun.
Also, what’s the motive for the shooting if not self-defense?
http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/getting-to-murder-2-finding-george-zimmermans-depraved-mind//#more
The prosecution may have a very hard time even coming close to winning on the Murder 2 charge.
The legal lynching of George Zimmerman goes on…and on…and on. Now the judge says Martin’s history of drug use can’t be introduced although he had Marijuana in is blood at the time of his death. Zimmerman’s guilt or innocence will be decided by the autopsy report on Martin’s body which shows Martin had no signs of being attacked or abused. His only wounds were on his knuckles where he hit Zimmerman and the gunshot wound. By contrast, the back of Zimmerman’s head was battered and bloody where Martin had tried to bash his brains out on the sidewalk or ground. In addition, Zimmerman had a broken nose and other signs of being battered. The state’s filing more charges against Zimmerman and his wife for not reporting donations for Zimmerman’s defense as assets is another travesty against justice in this case. According to school records, Martin had been caught with jewelry and other stolen items, in addition to having been suspended for drugs and other misbehavior. He was 6 ft. 3 and was on his way to becoming an accomplished petty criminal. I am not going to shed any tears over him or any of his kind. Thank you George Zimmerman. You did all his future victims a favor.
Hi AJ:
Took your obsession with GZ to bring me out of retirement. For a guy who likes to talk about physics and the “science” of the things you miss a lot of things.
Can we agree that this was a fight? A struggle? If so then the situation was dynamic, not static. That changes everything!
Go to your 5th figure, the one showing the various angles. All your assumptions flow from this figure and from the positions of TM and GX per that figure. So if we assume that GZ was just lying there getting bombed without a struggle you are absolutely right. But if you have ever been in a fight you might make a different assumption.
I would assume that GZ was fighting back, that we was bucking and twisting from side-to-side. In this scenario his gun could be exposed and shift to his right. In this scenario TM most likely would “post-up” (go into a four point type stance) to get more leverage and be in a position to rain down stronger punches. In this scenario the line of the bullet, as shown in your 4th figure, is perfectly reasonable.
Your only comeback is to say I’m making assumptions about what happened, that I’m reading somehting into the fight that GZ never said. You are right, but I’m basing my assumptions on experience and common sense. You are also reading something into GZ’s testimony. You are assuming a static situation where GZ layed prone on the ground and never moved while getting bombed with punches. I think that scenario is extremely unlikely.
What a pity you’re not giving your opinion about the NSA scandal. I keep checking back here to see if you have. I remember you doing excellent work explaining the Patriot Act. Take care.
You are spot on . The story George Zimmerman tells is impossible …the recreation is laughable, I have followed the evidence from the start. George is a liar . He will not be able to take the stand , he has far too many versions of the events that night. I think the evidence points to both George and Trayvon were standing when Trayvon was shot.
and riddle me this.. how does George have wrist control on trayvon move his own hand out of the way in order NOT to shoot himself??? that’s not self defense ….that’s Murder
Justice will be served when the murderer of an unarmed child is convicted in a court of law and sentenced…
George Zimmerman did not suffer a brutal beating , those two tiny cuts on the back of heads are certainly not the results of head smashing on the sidewalk , and take a good look at the photo of his nose , the blood is not coming out of his nostrils , I call BS to a broken nose the report said likely heh, no blood trail. it’s coming from those pricks on the end of his nose. The blood trails on the back of his head run forward , as if he was looking down, not as if he was the person on the bottom, George is a murderer trained in MMA and not some potted palm who let some 158 lb unarmed child beat his tail.
Time to face the music George, justice is waiting.
correction above post.
on the back of his head.
http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-case-states-scream-claims-called-absurd-ridiculous-and-imaginary-stuff//#more
State’s case gets weaker…real lawyer analysis ;o)
Marsh, Been dealing with a work related issue. NSA is next on my list!
Conrad, the dynamics of the fight are interesting, but irrelevant. What I have focused on were Zimmerman’s statements of what happened and the physical reality of the bullet path. All I know is the bullet path in the body is IMPOSSIBLE from what Zimmerman claims.
Which is why he made up his story. Since it is physically impossible it is fiction. Since it is fiction he is covering up.
What happened? Who knows. But what Zimmerman described and will plea in court did not happen.