Jul 07 2013
Prosecution’s Case Against Zimmerman
OK, there is too much testimony for me to go through it all completely, so here is what I see so far (have not looked at the defense case at all yet).
Both sides are clearly giving it their all. There will not be an argument justice was not served here.
I am somewhat surprised by the prosecution’s case so far not being openly stronger. But I am thinking that this case will boil down to final arguments and I think they are leaving bread crumbs at each point to connect at the end. They are not actually trying to win yet, just laying the foundation. Closing arguments are where I expect the prosecution to highlight all the issues with Zimmerman’s account and those of witnesses. And if the defense does not have a counter argument presented, it could be big trouble for Zimmerman because at that point it is too late.
Interestingly, most witnesses are not eyewitnesses be aural (ear) witnesses. And this of course includes the key witness for the prosecution: Rachel Jeantell. I guess I am too accustomed to dealing with people with thick accents and broken English, because I did not find her as much dumb as shy. People attacking her for her speech are grasping, and I am not sure an all woman jury is going to be hardened to her.
A lot of the key testimony came from witnesses who are not very good at speaking English. From the one neighbor who compared shadow sizes (e.g., silhouettes) and said Zimmerman was on top when the shot was fired, to the Chinese Medical Examiner to Ms. Jeantell and her Haitian Creole, the English language barrier could cause a problem for the prosecution. I am so used to foreign accents I really have no issues parsing and filling in where words fail people. But I am not on the jury so who knows how that is playing out.
The prosecution has paced their case well. First were some ho-hum witnesses, then the officer who tried CPR on Trayvon. This was to establish the fact the police and state took this incident seriously and professionally.
This led into what I felt was the big wake up testimony. It involved the neighbor who lived across the top of the “T” and who literally broke down during her 9-11 call. The horror in her voice really changed the matter at hand from the abstract to the tragic. It was pretty powerful.
The next big testimony was Ms. Jeantell’s, and while not good speaker, she was all 19 year old. And she never wavered. Her testimony is as valid as any of the others who heard the scuffle from their living rooms. Trayvon ran away from Zimmerman. And she heard Zimmerman approach Trayvon. That is just not good for Zimmerman’s alibi which is not even close to that. Her testimony is as valid as hearing the screams and shot on the 9-11 call. The defense’s efforts were pretty lame in this part. And if you watch the prosecution add stickers to their layout of the area, you can envision how this will play a big part in closing arguments. They will try and use other ear witnesses and not her, and that will just not work.
One of the big problems Zimmerman has are his various excuses for getting out of his car. In the statement that night to Officer Singleton, Zimmerman says he went through to the other street to find a street sign. As Zimmerman’s own lawyers pointed out in questioning Mrs. Lauer (who lives on the corner where Trayvon and Zimmerman gain entry to the dog walk area), there are no street signs nearby the cut-through they used to get behind the buildings.
Zimmerman’s problem came out during Officer Chris Serinos’ testimony when they played the reenactment video. It is just prior to time stamp 1:21:50 in this court video. At this point Zimmerman is in a police car talking through the incident. He and a policeman are parked in front of the club house and Zimmerman is explaining how Trayvon Martin – who he had seen back down the street a bit – had walked past his parked car and then down towards where he was staying.
The subconscious mistake Zimmerman makes is he automatically recalls the name of the street (Twin Trees Lane). I mean it just comes right out of his mouth. The same street he could not recall the night before! His claim he does not know the street name was the reason he gave for get out of his car (with a loaded gun with one round in the chamber). It was his following Trayvon taht of course led to the confrontation and Trayvon’s unnecessary death. But here, in this video, he recalls the street name instantly and easily. When the prosecution plays that, it will lay bare how much Zimmerman gilded his testimony.
What did catch me off guard was how little Officers Serino and Singleton cared about the obvious hate, spite and inconsistencies from Zimmerman. They really did not seem interested, or changed their view at some time. They definitely appeared better for Zimmerman, except they also gave prosecution a reason to play Zimmerman’s words back at him, I know understand why the case was taken over by the state. “F***ing Punks” and “A****Holes” are not indications of respect and should not have been casually dismissed. They were the result of Zimmerman profiling and confusing the guy arrested a few weeks earlier with this kid walking home. If that does come up, it will cause serious doubt in Zimmerman’s claims.
The testimony of neighbors had each one gaining an advantage in the fight. I think both took turns on top. One even seemed to indicate Trayvon was on the bottom and more on his side than back when shot.
Zimmerman was not near death, his injuries are minor. I have been hurt worse falling of my bicycle.
It is clear in the record Trayvon retreated many times. And under the law that means he trying to avoid a confrontation and therefore is not the aggressor. Zimmerman continues to push forward, and the LAST directive from non-emergency was to back off and wait. All prior questions regarding what he was reporting become moot. This is really bad for Zimmerman.
I think the Medical Examiner was great. He was quite good at reminding everyone what he could and could not determine. My guess is defense is going to keep poking at the chain of evidence, but that looks to be an act of desperation. I will know how desperate when I get to watching the defenses case play out.
But if Zimmerman was in such great shape, they would rest and not risk opening up any cans of worms. Which his lawyers did a couple of times.
So far I see a draw. No side has an edge.
I have watched or listened to the testimony everyday and everything I heard so far has shown that the prosecution has not met the burden of proof. The prosecution can lay out a great closing argument but that is not considered evidence that the the jury can use when deciding the case. The jury can only decide based on the evidence presented during the testimony.
And Rachel was by far the worse witness. The defense was able to prove she was inconsistent throughout the investigation. Her testimony will not help the prosecution meet the burden.
I am still not placing judgment but if I was on the jury there is no way I would say that Zimmerman is guilty of the charge of second degree murder.
Second degree murder? Manslaughter even?
Beyond a reasonable doubt? Not even close. The only way any guilty verdict comes from this travesty is because of fear of the racists burning down the towns and cities of America.
Prosecution was a joke, charges should never have been brought but pressures from Jacksonville and DC overruled the locals who had declined to charge George Zimmerman. Defense decimated every persecution witness and most of their own are unimpeachable. Fact: physical damage to Zimmerman are enough to justify lethal force when in fear of death or imminent serious injury. Judge should have granted Defense motion to Dismiss, with prejudice, based on Florida Concealed Carry laws otherwise we all become victims of the predatory sons of Obama!
I’m a deer hunter thus my name. I have shot lots of deer with bows and black powder rifles and I will tell you for a fact that a deer, heart shot, will NOT live ten minutes usually not six, a deer heart shot, will NOT be immediately immobilized rather many times will take off at full run straight forward and die in stride.
Persecutions ME said Treyvon lived 3 to 10 minutes and was immediately immobilized, not in the real world. Its a travesty, a railroading, a bunch of liars out for racial reparations as OK’d by their Lyin kING!
No, there is no evidence that Trayvon ran away from Zimmerman. She would have no way of knowing. She admitted that Trayvon was a racist. She repeatedly lied and was exposed. No witness identified Zimmerman on top of Trayvon. The only witness identified Trayvon on top of Zimmerman, and assaulting Zimmerman. The investigating police officer stated that he believed that Zimmerman’s account of the incident was truthful. “Profiling” is not illegal, nor is following someone or reporting them to the police. Zimmerman never followed Trayvon. Trayvon had plenty of time to get to his home, two minutes while Zimmerman was on the phone with the police. Trayvon went back to assault Zimmerman. Zimmerman gave the police the street name when he called. He did not know the exact address he was at and gave the address of the development club house. The woman you claim was a great witness said there were three shots and that Zimmerman shot Trayvon in the back. The witness who said Zimmerman was on top admitted her basis for that, the shadows she saw, were based on photos of Trayvon when he was 12 years old, not the 17 year old football player and street fighter.
One’s injuries have nothing to do with a self-defense claim, it is only the fear of death or great bodily injury that matter. One does not have to be injured to act in self-defense. In any event, the prosecution witness never examined Zimmerman and cannot give any opinion. In any event the physicians assistant who examined Zimmerman said he had serious injuries. But that has no legal bearing other than it bolsters Zimmerman’s fear of death or injury.
Note also that the facts show that Trayvon was shot in the chest, not side. Not even the prosecution is claiming that he was shot in the side or back. Your crazy witness says Trayvon was shot in the back three times.
The headline from “The Daily Caller” Docs: “Justice Department facilitated anti-Zimmerman protests”, our Government spent thousands of our dollars, before the trail even began, slandering Zimmerman through Al Sharpton, in Florida……you know they were making sure Trayvon’s civil rights were protected. Read the whole piece. I’m happy to let the trail play out. But to have our government and the President of this Country weigh in is obscene. My guess is, this is the President’s and his Justice Department understanding of how our system works.
Actually the Justice Department sent Justice Department employees, paid with tax payer money, down to Florida to stir up the lynch mob. It looks like our Community Activist President has appointed himself the Grand Dragon of our new black MauMau KKK. It’s little wonder people are buying up guns and ammo to protect themselves from our new government organized and financed anti white pogrom. As for AJ’s bleeding heart defense of this 6ft child who was trying to bash Zimmerman’s brains out on the sidewalk, it seems to me that anyone who defends such actions are complicit in encouraging the roaming gangs of blacks running wild in the streets of our big cities, beating up and killing vulnerable whites, and looting stores in waves. Martin obviously attacked Zimmerman. Zimmerman didn’t have any skinned or bruised knuckles like Martin did. The bloody broken nose and banged up head looked like Martin was trying his best to kill Zimmerman. Maybe if a few more people like Zimmerman take some of these punks out when they are attacked, they will get the message that attacking people they perceive to be vulnerable and because they consider them “crazy assed crackers” isn’t the way to achieve economic and social justice. Martin got the Social Justice he deserved. Martin was the racist, no Zimmerman. I am appalled that the racist hnti white hate speec h that Ms Jeantell said was common in their circle and part of the black culture.
Actually the Justice Department sent Justice Department employees, paid with tax payer money, down to Florida to stir up the lynch mob. It looks like our Community Activist President has appointed himself the Grand Dragon of our new black MauMau KKK. It’s little wonder people are buying up guns and ammo to protect themselves from our new government organized and financed anti white pogrom. As for AJ’s bleeding heart defense of this 6 ft child who was trying to bash Zimmerman’s brains out on the sidewalk, it seems to me that anyone who defends such actions are complicit in encouraging the roaming gangs of blacks running wild in the streets of our big cities, beating up and killing vulnerable whites, and looting stores in waves. Martin obviously attacked Zimmerman. Zimmerman didn’t have any skinned or bruised knuckles like Martin did. And Martin had no signs of being hit by Zimmerman. The bloody broken nose and banged up head looked like Martin was trying his best to kill Zimmerman. Maybe if a few more people like Zimmerman take some of these punks out when they are attacked, they will get the message that attacking people they perceive to be vulnerable and because they consider them “crazy assed crackers” isn’t the way to achieve economic and social justice. Martin got the Social Justice he deserved. Martin was the racist, not Zimmerman. I am appalled that the racist, anti white hate speech, which Ms Jeantell said was common in their circle and wasn’t considered hate speech because it was part of the black culture, has just been dismissed as if it were irrelevant. Well, using the N word used to be part of our culture, both black and white. White people started using it because that was what the black people called themselves. Yet today Paula Dean is being crucified (lynched) for something that was common at the time she said it. And our government is in the middle of all this, rallying the lynch mobs to attack vulnerable whites.
Then the black news media has the audacity to call anyone a racist who dares to comment on Ms Jeantell’s inability to speak the English language, or read cursive. I know our schools are crappy, but please! This 19 year old needs help in a big way. But oh no, you can’t say, has this young girl been to school?
And our justice system…….well it’s just payback time for slavery. Like, how do you like it whitey, now that the shoe is on the other foot?
One of the more interesting points to me is that the Medical Examiner (involved in the case, not the out of town one) never testified. Legally, the jury doesn’t even know that Martin is dead. There was no ME testify to that fact, or what he died from, nor where the bullet came from that killed him. Since it was never, legally, established that Martin was killed, it’s gonna be hard to convict someone for killing him.
The local ME was the oriental guy. One was Bao, I think the Gal, bought and paid for from the Jacksonville race baiting clown posse, and the other local one was Rao. I may have them backwards but the oriental was the local guy whose handling of the investigation was a mess as was the police work that did not preserve the hands in paper bags, the body wrapped in plastic rather than paper. I believe the local guy did testify to that.
The prosecution has shown that they do not think that their case is solid enough for a 2nd degree murder conviction. They have asked for manslaughter (and been granted that). They tried to ask for 3rd degree murder with child abuse at the last minute. If they knew that they nailed the case, then they would not have asked for lesser charges to be considered.
http://floppingaces.net/2013/07/11/if-you-dont-look-like-you-could-be-obamas-son-or-youre-not-one-of-holders-people-youre-screwed/
In watching this trial, the first thing I was immediately struck with was how different the actual evidence in this trial has been compared to the early speculation and accusations.
I’ll try not to rehash what’s already been rehashed to death.
I live in FL. We have a community board. The local sheriffs dept has reps they send to every meeting to discuss break-ins, etc. in our neighborhood. They continually encourage us to “use” The non emergency number to report suspicious persons or activity in our neighborhood.
There are “many” houses in florida that are seasonal homes for people (ie., they are empty save for winter). The pimps and drug dealers break in and use the houses for business. It’s a HUGE problem in some areas of florida that also have hundreds of foreclosures in process.
As far as I know..there is “nothing” inherently wrong with what Z initially did in reporting and calling this in…to get checked out. The fact that he got out of the car….even if it was to see which way he ran…is not illegal, nor does it imply or serve as intent. The dispatcher telling Z to stop following after him….was NOT because he was trying to protect Trayvon from a brutal MMA gun carrying cop wannabe. It was to protect Z!! from “unknown”.
Lastly…everything the prosecution said about Z…that he wanted to be a law enforcement officer, that he was active in his neighborhood, including watch, that he took the time to train himself and get his concealed carry permit (which requires training), the fact that he consoled his neighbor who had been attacked, and helped her fix her door, etc…all showed that he was a GOOD guy trying to do the right thing, wanting to participate and serve in his community. I was thinking to myself as the prosecutor scowled and made faces reading off his laundry list of “defects” that made Z the predator who would kill T martin…that in any other setting…he could be getting a rewards/certificate of community service for the same things!
Finally, nothing in evidence (factual or otherwise) proves Z to be violent, angry or that he somehow lost his cool…even the statements he made about “the assholes that always get away”. The emotion I heard in that was frustration. Not anger. I could also hear fear. If Z wanted to stalk this guy…why would he do it on the phone with the cops????? asking them to come?
Just my 2 cents.
Almost all of the actions that Z. took that night; including observing, following, watching, driving to, getting out of his car, even approaching and talking to TM – are ALL perfectly legal acts. Those acts cannot be used as evidence to show malice, spite or ill will and the prosecution failed at showing it. Therefore, at the point at which TM and Z are fighting hand to hand and Z is in fear of grevous bodily harm, he has the legal right to use deadly force. His story has not been proven to be false – beyond a reasonable doubt. That is how high the bar is for the prosecution. I am sympathetic to the prosecution because they were politically forced to bring the charges. Over charging 2nd degree murder was just plain stupid but most likely it was due to political pressure. All the defense had to do in this case was point out that the prosecution has dozens of “what ifs?”. They have done that admirably. Now it’s up to the jury to do the right thing according to our benevolent and lenient justice system which is one of the foundations of our western system of civility. As an observation, I believe that this incident shows the dangers of young adults being in difficult situations. If I had been in that situation, I would have done several things different because I have 20 years more experience in handling potentially dangerous situations. When Zimmerman exited his truck, he placed himself in a perfectly legal but personally risky situation. He lost situational tactical superiority at that moment. And the only way for him to ensure his security (and coincidentally TM’s security) was to be far more specific in his actions, his words and his location. He failed in that regard and that resulted in a cascading of events most of which I blame on TM. But some of the blame for this death is on Zimmerman’s head because of his inexperience in handling such situations. Sad as TM’s death is, retribution for the death is not the purpose of the criminal justice system. It’s purpose is to ensure justice and in that regard, self defense is entirely justifiable given the KNOWN FACTS. We will never know what the exact thoughts, actions or events occurred in that brief exchange that night. But what we do know provides reasonable doubt that Zimmerman acted in self defense and therefore the intentional killing of TM was allowed under the law. The liberal media is absolutely silent on the matter of justifiable homicide which tells me how they are attempting to paint ALL use of firearms as unjustifiable. That fits into their anti gun, ban ALL guns, agenda. Most of the media couldn’t bring themselves to discuss the law and its allowance of justifiable homicide. It is terribly sad that Trayvon Martin began punching and hitting Zimmerman. In America, every so often, someone picks a fight with someone who is armed. Trayvon was not expecting an armed citizen. This case demonstrates to America that you must be civil to one another because an armed society makes more people polite to one another. TM wasn’t polite. He paid a very heavy price for it but hopefully, more of the thugs or wannabe thugs of the world have learned something.
Dc,
Good summation of the Zimmerman’s actions, augmented by your own experiences of being a Florida resident.
I’m listening to the prosecution’s closing words, and find myself getting tense and angry. They are bringing up no evidence, only their orchestrated speculation that Zimmerman was an anger management candidate. It is an injustice to the justice system how this trial is being handled, IMO. Constantly referring to Martin as a ‘child’ is also such a deliberate misnomer. The prosecutor is not looking for the truth, but only trying to stir up misplaced emotions, and simply pull on the heartstrings of the jurists.
What a farce if Zimmerman is convicted of anything!
AJ: If you see a draw at the end of the Prosecution’s case then they have not proved that case beyond a reasonable doubt. The judge should have granted their motion to dismiss.
Fast forward now to the closing arguments. Zimmerman’s attorney is calm and going through the testimony on a factual basis. Yesterday, the Prosecution was all about theatrics, emotion, ranting and raving, and even telling lies. That’s right – the lied to the jury.
They said they can prove Zim was lying because an hour after the shooting he told a cop he didn’t know that TM had died when he really did – after all he told the neighbor to tell his wife that “he killed somebody”. That proves he’s a liar. Just one slight problem – the neighbor testified that zim told him to tell his wife that he “shot someone”.
If the Prosecution has to lie and gin up emotions then they have failed to prove their case.
Ahhhh…………………………….
Just heard the Prosecution on rebutal say two things that make my head about to explode.
Paraphrasing…”George Zimmerman with hatred in his heart gunned down an unarmed child.”
No proof of hatred, did not “gun him down”, TM was not a “child”. OK that’s three things!
This is ridiculous notion that Zimmerman was the aggressor because “he continued to follow TM”. AJ how long and how close to someone you to follow them until you become an aggressor. Please define in minutes seconds/ feet inches ….In the end it is moot. Its all subjective. It varies from person to person.
Even if you were to follow someone too closely, it is not assault, nor battery. TM assaulted and committed battery on GZ .
Enjoying the popcorn while watching AJ continue to embarass himself with his prejudice in this case. LMAO. Feel free to dig yourself out with a maxima mea culpa before the jury returns a verdict.
New England
I can’t believe this one from Dr. AJ the online trauma specalist.
“Zimmerman was not near death, his injuries are minor. I have been hurt worse falling of my bicycle.”
I guess GZ should have known this and not protected himself:)