Jun 14 2006
Hastert Fiddles As Party Destructs
Well, one thing everyone agreed was that immigration had to be dealt with and not shelved. The hard liners who cannot tolerate MORE than beefed up border security in the House have decided to make a bad situation worse and ‘learn’ about the Senate Bill:
Hopes for a quick compromise on immigration were dealt a blow Tuesday after House Speaker Dennis Hastert said he wanted to take a “long look” at a Senate bill offering possible citizenship to millions of illegal immigrants.
Hastert said hearings on the Senate bill should be held before appointing anyone to a House-Senate committee to negotiate a compromise immigration bill. Later, he said he was unsure what the House’s next move would be.
“We’re going to take a long look at it,” Hastert said late Tuesday.
House Majority Leader John Boehner agreed. “I think we should know clearly what’s in the Senate bill,” Boehner said. But he added there are lots of ways to understand its contents.
What have these yahoos been doing? They should be all up on the details already. This is not about them learning a thing. This is about ‘educating the public’ who are whole heartedly against the hardline house bill. Well, it was a good run while it lasted, but we all knew there would be a time where the far right would try and jump farther than the country was willing to go and they would pay the price. It is the way of life and the ever swinging pendulum of politics.
There is a solution for those who want a pound of flesh (as opposed to back taxes and better assimilation) which I proposed a while back (here). Basically it is proposal to deport real criminals who are immigrants, instead of trying to make working for a living a felony. While the House is pondering an issue they should know by now, they might want to consider thisbsolution and stop wasting time.
I’m against illegal activity.
This is not about them learning a thing. This is about ‘educating the public’ who are whole heartedly against the hardline house bill. (emphasis – mine)
How sure are you about this, AJ? I ask because of this poll from a couple days ago which says that 56% disapprove of the way Bush is handling the immigration issue. I gather from everything you’ve written that you support the President’s plan as do I, but apparently the majority of the public does not. It’s possible that the majority of the public thinks that the President’s plan and the Senate bill are one and the same, and unless several really undesirable elements have been quiently removed from the Senate bill, that is just not true.
As I’m sure you’re aware, poll results can be (and often are), manipulated to produce the desired results. This is a good example of such a manipulation.
I think a lot of people are going to be surprised come November 7th. I’m just not sure yet which side is going to be surprised. Me? Hell, nothing surprises me anymore, especially politics.
Political Washington is rushing and pushing the latest fake solution to our border problems. Why would anyone expect something from McCain and Teddy Kennedy to really solve anything. Do you remember McCain Feingold, another fake solution that has our free political speach rights crippled (aka our 1st Amendment Rights) and George Soros the key financier of an entire party. The fake solutions and neglect coming out of our oblivious Congressmen sugered with billions of dollars of Social Security money hidden in the 300 page bill deserve a little scrutany. Maybe there are some earmarks in there somewhere. The last amnesty was a total failure, but pushed off political heat for a dozen years and left us with this mess. Lets not repeat that.
I work on the border from time to time. Every week a very small group of volunteers goes out to the deadly desert to install or maintain emergency water stations in the hope that we can save a few lives. This is a stop gap measure that comes under the heading “we are responsible for what happens in our own backyard.” You can be proud of the Border Patrol out there too, they are young, smart and working under tough conditions. They save a lot of lives.
When Congress finally secures the border (this will require a fence in some places and more Border Patrol), when there are legal documents that allow Mexicans to work and go home, when criminals are deported and “other than Mexicans” are not caught and released back onto American streets, when the expense of handling the undocumented tide in emergency rooms and jails is sent to the Federal Government whose actual responsibility this is, then maybe we will have more security and the casualties in the desert will go down.
The easy political fake solutions have been tried and failed. Solve the security problems first. The rest of the problem, legal residency, work id, employer sanctions, 12 million people among us without papers, all that will not go away. It can be solved, but solve the security issues first or they will be ignored and papered over again.
And if you have a little spare time on a weekend, come out to the sun and sand along the border, set out a little water and see what the border is really like; far from the cocktail party circuit and salons of Washington DC.
I’m just getting disgusted with their stridency on this issue.
I think it is sound strategery. While we Congress fiddles with the details about the “path to citizenship” and its provisions like paying 3 out of 5 past years’ taxes (which in and of itself is unconstitutional) border security gets reinforced through a series of deployments.
Its not that nothing is being done, things are being accomplished without legistlation. By simply enforcing the law. What a novel concept!!
Like the House would pass the Senate Amnesty Bill, yeah, right.
Hastert did exactly what I thought he would do, call bullshit and table this mess. Not in the same words, but there will be NO IMMIGRATION REFORM BILL THIS YEAR. At least not the crap that came out of the Senate.
If only the Senate had some of the Republican Congressional Spine. I can dream, can’t I?
Language… Borders… Culture…
easy concept
I have enjoyed your writting for sometime now. But I must say, on Illegal Aliens, we part ways.
I just do not understand how you could not be behind the efforts of the House of Represenatives, rather than the Bush/Senate proposals.
We have been invaded by millions of people whose first act on our soil was to break the law. And yet, you and many other people who seem to be for law and order, close your eyes to this invasion. Perhaps you should read some Leo W. Banks articles, Michelle Malkin articles and books, or J.D. Hayworth or Tom Tancredo.
I think on most every thing else you write about we are in agreement. Somehow, on this issue, we are miles apart.
I am all for Immigration, legal immigration. I am not for giving another round of Amnesty to law breakers. It only encourages more of it.
Ya know, I suppose that ALL crimes will now require the death penalty-all or nothin’. Because that’s what I see from the strident Savage group.
Actually, the “amnesty” in the Senate bill isn’t so easy. They would have to keep a job, stay out of jail, learn english, and after 11 years they would have a shot at citizenship. If they land in jail in that time, they go back where they came from. I honestly don’t have a problem with that.
I have still not heard a viable solution as to the disposition of the people already here from the far right hand-wringers. Deportation of them is beyond physical possibility. Ignoring them and leaving in their current status undercuts the economy. Preventing from gaining a legal worker status causes them to stay here longer than they might otherwise becuse going home over the winter probably isn’t an option if they can’t get back in the spring.
The ones that are anti-Senate bill are in my opinion not thinking with their brains, they are allowing their emotions to rule their positions. Sometimes as adults we are put in a position where often the best thing to do isn’t what we would most like to do. I believe Hastert is a fool for putting the brakes on things. There is not as much of a Republican majority in the Senate. Whatever the House does is going to need to have some Senate Democrats and center Republicans on board.
What it smells like to me is special interests that want to keep things just as they are and don’t really want any change at all are torpedoing this so that nothing gets done. Rich real estate developers and other interests that need the cheap labor don’t want to see those workers legal. They are content to leave things just as they are. The House can play their little drama of pandering to the far right because they know it will never pass the Senate, in other words, they get to shoot down the bill by pretending to be all “conservative” on the issue. It smells to me like they really don’t want a bill at all.
And by the way, as I said on another forum yesterday, I didn’t register for the “Conservative Party”, I registered for the “Republican Party” and the Republican Party is composed of a broad spectrum of political thought.
from an earlier post in mid may……..
slowly but surely, as predicted in the middle of march, there will be a fence first and everybody here will be legalized with a 10 year green card. no questions asked, no back taxes and no citizenship fee. if, and it’s a big if, there is a “biometric card†everyone will be required to carry one–the dreaded national ID card–when seeking a job. akin to carrying your SS card in the old days. any attempt to make primarily hispanics carry one will never make it out of court. there will be no, and i repeat no, job place law enforcement during the sign up period. oh they will throw a few on the fire but the workplace will be left alone. the unemployment it would cause and the strain on social services will sober up the tough talkers after the first layoffs and bankruptcies. they will probably give folks a year to sign up while they carry on with their lives. after the cut off date they risk being sent home. no card no work, except in the underground economy. in the course of their daily lives, felons and folks who fail to register will be deported. this senate jib jab is to feed the left and right. the only parts of the senate proposals that will see the light of day will be the ones that engender new departments, committees etc with no practical influence on the ground.. how do i know this? i’m just using the last forty years as my template.
bush’s immigration speech did what it was designed to do–get folks to accept legalizing everyone here. all we are doing now is discussing the length of the fence.
if you are thinking of a career change–think immigration law. the fees will run in the 100’s of millions, maybe even billions.
Let us just enforce the hundred or so laws on currently on the books. It is like Gun Legislation, every year we get new gun laws while we ignore existing laws.
I find it humorous that I am treated like a Moonbat here. When have I ever posted that I advocate the Death Penalty for all crimes? All I have ever advocated is that we enforce current Illegal Immigration Laws. When an Illegal is picked up, deport. I am labeled a Savage Follower because I agree with the Borders, Language and Culture Ideology “spewed forthe” by Savage. Why can’t I be a Republican and expect Laws to be abided by?
I respect AJ’s Blog and like his work, and enjoy posting. AJ has always treated me with respect, even when we disagree. I would hope that not all of his posters disrespect another’s opinion when it does not agree with their own.
BurbankErnie, just try counting.
http://calledasseen.blogspot.com/2006/06/talking-numbers.html
What bothers me about the immigration issue isn’t so much the people who want to deport every illegal; it’s the people who, on the one hand, scream about illegal immigration being a huge monstrous crisis, and on the other hand, are perfectly prepared to scuttle the Senate bill and do without any bill at all, on the grounds that, as bad as illegal immigration is, amnesty (which seems to mean ANY path to citizenship AT ALL, even one requiring the immigrant to work for it and to pay back taxes) is even worse.
AJ: I know this is a hot button issue for you and I really don’t want to push that button again. After our little exchanges last week, I went back and tried to analyze the bill. It’s a swamp with 700 pages and like most legislation difficult to evaluate, particularly since I kept getting timed-out even between sections. Since I’m not the most patient person in the world, I gave up and eventually tried to analyze only the amendment votes. There’s enough there for me to generally agree with ROB above, and to think that Hastert MUST do what he’s doing, though his blunt style makes it sound bad.
Examples include: authorization for local agencies to cooperate with federal–amended to be VOLUNTARY. (If you can make it out of San Diego, you’re home free!), retroactive credit for social security, EIC (also retroactive, I think), no restrictions on courts from staying deportation, no sunset provisions for visas, required impact statements from Census and Labor that would choke a horse(between these and SSA, I can just visualize hugh increases in bureauracies–can you imagine how much staff would be required to research contributions under multiple phony SS#s over sometimes decades?), etc,etc,etc.
And then there,s the votes:
Topic** R only R(Va only)
Total bill 20 1
Waiving CBA 24 1*
Retro SS 9 0
EIC (retroactive?) 19 1
Rejecting limits on numbers 21 1
Rejecting sunset provisions 23 1
Prohibiting courts from staying
deportation 13 0
*All Allen’s, except this one. Prez candidate, right?
**all stated so positive vote+most liberal
I think that’s enuff to indicate there needs to be major comprises on both side. The lack on a majority on Republican votes on a single issue I’ve noted makes the Senate a pretty Blue bill. That’s not my idea of a good solution.
I repeat my position. The House version is unacceptable, but so is the Senate version–because of bigger government and higher taxes for me. For the citizens of Az, an over-riding concern, as shown by our Prop 200 that immigration is straining our schools (massiv e lawsuit in progress with $1M/day fine), hospitals, jails, garbage removal, food banks, an on and on.
Unless you’ve lived here, you have no idea how powerful that perception is, even among Hispanic citizens.
Harold,
Would you want to do away with scenes such as this:
“From DHS:
HOUSTON, TX. – Julie L. Myers, Assistant Secretary for U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), today announced that ICE agents and officers have apprehended approximately 2,179 criminal aliens, illegal alien gang members, fugitive aliens, and other immigration status violators as part of a nationwide interior immigration enforcement operation that began last month.
Dubbed “Operation Return to Sender,†the initiative began on May 26, 2006 and concluded yesterday. Virtually every field office in the nation from ICE’s Office of Investigations and ICE’s Office of Detention and Removal Operations carried out the enforcement operation in conjunction with numerous state and local law enforcement agencies.”
Let us not lose sight here. Take a walk through Van Nuys, Pico Rivera, East L.A. and dozens of other cities right here in the greater L.A. Area. where you NEVER have to assimilate. Everything is in Spanish, Hospital E.R.’s have disappeared due to FREE Healt Care for Illegals. Emergency Rooms were used as Doctor’s Offices. The LAUSD is in SHAMBLES. Can you imagine if we actually ENFORCED the Car Insurance is Mandatory Law? A third of the drivers would be off the street.
Going back to the Immigration Bill by the Senate, YES, that was disgraceful and the House did the right thing. In the meantime, we have several thousand troops dow at the Border and FOCUS NOW BEING put at the border, all WITHOUT the jole of a Senate Bill. Don’t like the House Bill, fine. That will not pass either, but the focis is now on to do something. This coming election will be about two things; Security and Immigration. We shall see what the voters think is right.
ICE Arrests About 2,000 Illegal Immigrants
I think this is something we can all agree on.
I had a real estate license for some time and I learned then that the way you make a deal is to negotiate. You make an offer and the other guy makes a counter offer. And so on until there is more agreement than disagreement. This works if both sides are acting in good faith and want a deal to be made.
What the House seems to be doing is saying that after we got everybody all excited about this we are just going to blow the whole thing off. Maybe it was just a con game to get the right wingers riled up and no one wants a solution because a solution or a compromise means an end to the issue and folks like Tancredo are getting far too much mileage off this issue to see it solved and put away. They prefer to rant and accuse Bush of being part of a conspiracy to cede the border states to Mexico.
But what this announcement by Hastert says to the country is that the Republicans are every bit as much hampered by their extremists as the Democrats are by theirs. I am getting sick of the debate myself and just wish it would go away. I bet a lot of other people are starting to feel the same way.
I am sure that there are plenty of things in the Senate bill that can go by the wayside. In fact I would say the same for the House bill. They can phase parts of the programs in over time, they can sundown parts of it for future debate, they can do a lot of things other than just say Never Mind after they were the ones that absolutely insisted we had to do something right now, this minute, today……
Hey Rob,
“Set out a little water”?? The oldest truism known to mankind is that if you want more of something, subsidize it. How about instead of a little water, you hammer a sign in the ground with an arrow pointing back to Mexico?
AJ,
Does “better assimilation” mean that we’re all going to have to learn Spanish?