Jun 25 2006
GOP Utter Failure IV
While the democrats want to cut and run from Iraq, Republicans cut and run from our border security and left us open to terrorist attack by a stubborn fear of immigrants possibly becoming US citizens in 10-15 years (the so called ‘amnesty’ which only someone with severe obsession would confuse with the liberal goal of immediate citizenship).
Sen Bill Frist attempts again to make some in-roads on this issue in apiece out today in the Washington Times (h/t RCP). He is mostly right, but very wrong in some place. He realizes we need a multi-pronged solution.
Simply strengthening physical border security or beginning a guest worker program will not fix the deep, underlying problems in America’s immigration system. Any bill Congress sends to the president must enhance border security, create an operational temporary worker program, provide for work-site enforcement, and address the status of the 12 million illegal immigrants already in the country.
It is a reasonable checkist (though some things overlap). All of these fronts need to be addressed to even have a prayer of working. Those people who try to get just one element passed (i.e., stronger borders) and try to hold off issues they cannot face are kidding themselves. Personally, I am not buying the silver-bullet excuses. I stopped believing in those not long after I realized the tooth fairy is not real.
Fritz points to one of the biggest problems we have right now – workable work-site checks and enforcement.
Workplace enforcement stands atop my list of concerns because it’s a prerequisite to any other type of immigration reform. Right now, employers have no effective way to verify whether an individual has proper permission to work in the United States. Unless we develop an effective work-site system, the economic pull of jobs will lead both illegal immigrants and employers to evade whatever barriers we place in their way. While the Senate bill contains some good ideas, I believe its work-site enforcement provisions need improvement.
Well, the jab that employers are too greedy to check is patently unfair. There is no way for an employer to resoundly determine if someone here is legal. Employers have been saying for decades that if the government would provide the system (like gun owner checks) they would use it. But people who run small businesses do not have the revenues to pay for detectives on every employee.
What I do not grasp is the idea that someone who has paid into Social Security should not get that money back out. It is not hard to believe more than half (if not all) of the people in social security have a record of breaking a law, for example speeding, uninspected car – much more dangerous actions to me and mine than someone working for a living and paying their taxes. In the grand scheme of things a drunk driver is much more of a risk to society than someone working without permission. So are we going to set the precedent that you can lose your social security because you broke a law?
This is the kind of mindless ‘severe punishment’ mentality that tries to equate working without permission with robbery, assault and murder. These punishments will set a precedent that can and will be used by politicians in the future as things that are ‘good for the gander’. We treat people equally here. So laws that apply to one group can be broadened out to apply to all of us at any time. Are we ready to have some bureacrat in DC tell us when we break certain laws they will take all the hard earned money they forced from us originally and now keep it?
Folks, those immigrants who are real criminals need to get the boot. We need to stop releasing immigrant workers (who are indistinguishable from vacationers I must point out) at the border as best we can, but what we really need to do is bring the underground workers into society so that they do not undermine our way of life but join in it. No stick you would not use on yourself for equally bad transgressions is going to be seen as fair and measured. The irony of this one sticking point is this is a case where these illegal workers paid their fair share of taxes, and now some in DC are trying to find a way to punish them for this. We want the tax cheats folks, not the tax payers.
Someone needs to show some sanity on these issues. And soon. We are still completely exposed to terrorist attack from our borders and from within this underground society that has been building up for decades. This was an inexcusable failure by the GOP. Fear of an immigrant becoming a citizen in 2016 or later is no excuse for leaving Americans at risk for terrorist attack today. Any attack that does succeed through this path will be laid on the heads of those who made this mistake.
Addendum: I see the ‘do-nothing’ crowd are still rationalizing the GOPs disasterous blunder. Seems they don’t like the point I keep making and keep looking for cover in polls which mean nothing to the issue. How many people in this country would agree that fear of immigrants becoming US citizens in 2016-2021 is a higher concern or priority than stopping terror attacks here in the US today? Sorry folks, but the American people are not obsessed. Very few minds would conclude it is better to risk a terror attack today (which kills and maims) than risk people whose only crime is making a living becoming US citizens in the far future. The only reason the GOP is not being decimated on this issue is the Dems keep trying to surrender to Al Qaeda in Iraq. One party is surrendering and the other party is fixated on immigrants being nationalized in 10-15 years. Neither is thinking straight. Please don’t bother and try and impress me with how correct all of this is. That just destroys your credibility. There is nothing admirable in any of this.
Crosspatch said:
“Democrats at some point get enough votes in Congress to grant immediate amnesty.”The Democrats will grant amnest and pick up another 10 million votes, mostly in Californa and Texas ensuring their hold on American politics
and the plan to counter this is: Let the Republicans beat them to it and grant the amnesty first. How about everybody deny them amnesty and keep the Republicans in charge., Now there’s a plan
TERRYE BABY,
And as for people with a warrant not getting social security, this is not about people with a warrant. It is my understanding that this is about people who have paid a fine and come forward to do what is necessary to gain legal status.
what we are talking about here is any native born, american all his life, paid into SS all his life. If he gets a federal warrant against him, or goes to prison for any reason, will not draw any SS for the duration. However, illegal immigrants would, not only that, but so would his wife who has never even been in the USA. Now you try that for the wife of a native born citizen. Won’t happen.
TERRYE
I am not a big supporter of the Senate Bill,
since when, you would never know it by what you write
But we are not Israel and we don’t have problems with Palestinians. 50% of all illegal aliens in the US cross legally at regular border checkpoints … they just don’t go home. They don’t sneek across the border. If you built a fence, you could stop 100% of border sneekers … of 50% of the illegal aliens … for as long as it takes the coyotes to switch to boat or hot air balloon.
Crosspatch,
Jesus, you’re from
San Jose, California
That’s near enough to San Francisco, hmmm now I understand.
To try to compare our border with Israel’s is an illustration of exactly what I am talking about. Israel is keeping out people that run across the border, attack them, and run back. We don’t have that problem (but we might if we start treating Mexico like they are an enemy or something). We have a problem with people who are willing to leave everything they have to come to America to live forever. Different situation.
There *IS* eventually going to be another amnesty if the problem is ever to be solved. I happen to favor a 10-year probation. I don’t think that is unreasonable.
For Enforcement, you Sir are a part of the problem, not a part of the solution. I have seen not one constructive suggestion come from you. Ok, fine, build a fence … then what? You still have the problem. You have managed to slow by half the numbers of illegals. So now what do you do to really address the problem?
If a comprehensive bill is passed, fence construction could begin immediately.
Not the Senate bill, it would never even be started. All that would be started is AMNESTY AND CITIZENSHIP FOR ALL, NO QUESTIONS ASKED.
If you don’t believe that, you just don’t understand the situation
CROSSPATCH BABY, you said:
“This bill does set aside money for a lot of fence this year.”
And you were referring to the Senate Bill?
As you know I’m sure, NO BILL appropriating money may originate in the Senate. All money bills have to originate in the House.
So, now I know that you know what you are talking about, so lift and paste from the senate bill exactly how much money is set aside in the Senate bill?
I won’t be holding my breath waiting for the reply that will never come.
AWWW, TERRYE, you can do better than this:
It is like this. I don’t want chicken and mashed potatoes. I just want mashed potatoes. Put that chicken on my plate and I will feed supper to the dogs and no one will eat.
Left by Terrye
You didn’t even interpret your own little ditty correctly. Let me try for you.
I don’t want chicken and mashed potatoes. I just want mashed potatoes.
So why and hell pay for something you don’t want and sure as hell will never be used for anything. Why not just buy what you want and will use.
“Put that chicken on my plate ” What again?
Why you know it wasn’t wanted or eaten before, can’t you learn, guess you can’t teach an old dog new tricks.
I will feed supper to the dogs and no one will eat.
They didn’t want it either.
Now isn’t that what you really meant to say?
stevevvs
Hey, don’t give up man, there are several of us on here that aren’t Kool Aid drinkers.
As anyone that listens to Rush knows, he is certified to be almost 100% right. So if you’re listening to him, you can’t be far off.
Hang in there.
The Republican party needs immigrant votes and the votes of the children of immigrants.
why would anyone say this? Who in this country are not immigrants or the descendants of immigrants? So ANYBODY that gets a vote or needs a vote needs it from immigrants or descendants of immigrants.
Don’t come up with Native Americans, they were just very early immigrants. Coming here from Russia.
CROSSPATCH, I’m beginning, no that’s not true, I’m continuing to wonder about you. You said?
“You make another good point … *half* the illegals here didn’t sneak across any border, they came across legally, and just stayed”
And you are an authority on this? You know how many people are sneaking across the border and how many are coming in other ways?
How? The border patrol doesn’t know this, the immigration service doesn’t know this. They make a lot of “estimates” but they are just numbers pulled out of the air. Just like your’s
They could serve as a good example for some of the jackasses that were born here.
Left by crosspatch
For example? You?
And so TERRYE
Not being a ” socalled conservatives ”
That must put you at or near a “socalled Demolib’
If not, quit acting like it.
TERRYE
Bloody spartan do not yell at me.
when someone is yelling at you, THEY PUT IT IN CAPITAL LETTERS!
Crosspatch, what?
They should probably market the plan as “probation†rather than “amnesty†because that is closer to what it really is
it is not closer to amnesty, it is AMNESTY
The Senate bill did require people to learn english.
quit drinking Kool Aid people! It only requires enrollment in a course, it doesn’t require learning it. It doesn’t even require attendance at the course, only enrollment, no testing, no proof of ability or proficiency. and we the taxpayers get to pay for it.
TERRYE
“And while Bush is fighting people like this I see websites of people who call themselves conservatives, talking about impeaching Bush, telling Bush he can go eff himself,”
you are incorrect madam, I challenge you to lift and paste or provide a link to any CONSERVATIVE that is doing this?
I wanted to put that in much stronger terms, but I’ll be nice and just say you made this up.
are you just a Demolib in disguise trying to divide and conquer the conservatives. I can think of no other motive for you posting such total crap. excuse me.
PONDERINGAMERICAN
if what you posted is indicative of what you understand about the issue, just let me say, don’t waste your time, you’ll never understand it
Crosspatch you said:
Okay, lets walk through this again.
If you completely closed the border with a 5,280 foot-high fence with barbed wire, landmines, and machine guns on it you would reduce the entry if illegals immediately by 50%. That number would then diminish as people found ways around, over, and under and through the fence.
Left by crosspatch
We are talking about SECURING the border. A fence is only a small part of that. One aircraft could fly the length of the border one time with ground penetrating radar and pinpoint every single tunnel under it. no one wants to.