Jul 05 2006
Drudge Makes News Like MSM – He Fakes It.
What in the world is going on with our political discourse? Have we been scraping the bottom of the barrel for so long all we have are variations of Kerry and Dean and Tancredo and Buchanan??? Why in the world would Matt Drudge claim that NY City Mayor Bloomberg said we need illegal immigration when he said something totally different?
The economy of the country’s largest city and the entire nation would collapse if illegal immigrants were deported en masse, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg told a Senate committee hearing Wednesday.New York City is home to more than 3 million immigrants, and a half-million of them came to this country illegally, Bloomberg testified.
“Although they broke the law by illegally crossing our borders … our city’s economy would be a shell of itself had they not, and it would collapse if they were deported,” he said. “The same holds true for the nation.
Drudge changed this easily understood concept that we need a large immigrant work force for both seasonal and temprorary (3-6 year) jobs to keep our economy rolling ato something totally different. Drudge’s banner headline: “NYC MAYOR: WE NEED ILLEGALS”
The hard liners are now using deceiptful tactics learned by the liberal media to make their continuing unsustainable position that exposed borders today are better than immigrants who came here illegally ever possibly earning a right to be a citizen (even through military service). This headline is as accurate as “Bush lied and people died”. Drudge is one step away from being a non-source in my opinion. I left the Democrat party because of their complete reliance on hyperbolic rhetoric. And the use of deceipt on the right has become a tall barrier to me ever being willing to call myself a Republican. Right now that possibility is very unrealistic.
“Although they broke the law by IL-legally crossing our borders….our city’s economy would be a shell of itself had they not, and it would collapse if they were deported” he said. “The same holds true for the nation”.
We need illegals? How else would you headline this, AJ. Bloomberg made it pretty clear that the illegals were needed for NYC’s economy. Saying that the economy would collapse without illegals certainly is saying that they are needed to keep the economy on track.
Not much different than the argument made by southern plantation owners when they cried that without slaves, there could be no cotton grown in the south. That proved to be false.
So what are all these jobs that illegals take that Americans won’t do? I have never heard anyone say what they are. Perhaps you could tell us.
This may have been semantics, but the implication was we need these illegals. Had he said we need immigrants, nobody would disagree, but don’t believe we need illegals.
And the use of deceipt on the right has become a tall barrier to me ever being willing to call myself a Republican.
I think you are trying to imply Drudge is on right or Republican. I’ve seen him many, many times and have never had any impression that he is on ‘right’ In fact him being a media guy I think would make him a little more to wrong side (whoops, I meant left)
I went back and re-read Bloomburg’s statements. He definitely said NYC needed those illegal immigrants. Don’t see where Drudge made up anything.
The article reads as if Drudge supports Senate Bill. I don’t know if he does or not
I heard what the man said and he said that if we had to spend billions of dollars to round up and deport illegals en masse with a great many of them coming right back in, it would be a waste of money since most of them are working. If you actually listened to what he said he was talking about something hardliners never really talk about, the cost of deporting millions of people in some kind of round up.
Drudge left out the whole cost of round up thing, but then what is new? Most of these people think you can just wave a magic wand the deportation fairy makes the bad illegals go away and then wave another one and the roofer/nanny/migrant worker fairies and elves go to work so that no one will be inconvenienced by the sudden removal of 5% of the workforce.
Perhaps AJ would prefer this headline:
Deporting illegals immigrants would crush economy, NYC mayor says
This was the headline in the Dallas Morning News.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/APStories/stories/D8ILUAA82.html
And perhaps Terrye would like to explain to us what jobs it is that Americans won’t do. So if the illegals constitute 34% of sheet rockers, who are the other 66%? Sheet rock fairies and tape and float elves?
The cost of rounding up millions of criminals? Minimal, if you cut off the jobs, the social welfare benefits, the anchor baby rule (which is not what the 14th amendment was designed to do in the first place) and start fining employers with an amount that put the hurt on them.
Announce that if you are an illegal you will go to jail, where you have to work to earn your keep on a farm that produces food for battered women shelters.
The headline could read:
You want to work in the U.S.? Come here illegally and your wish will be granted complements of the penal system.
Retire:
Well for starters there is putting up hay. I had to buy a big round baler because I could not find a hay crew. It happens.
I do not know why you hate these people so much. I do not know why you insist on living in this fantasy world where Americans fall all over themselves to go pick lettuce etc. The truth is I know a 50 year old woman who is working 90 hours a week right now because she can not find anyone to work at her gas station convenience store. The last two people she hired quit after a pay check. She is getting desperate but it seems there are no Americans right here in the town I live in desperate enough to take that job.
In fact if Americans are willing to do these jobs, why aren’t they? Why aren’t 100% of the sheetrockers Americans?
I can remember the recession about 25 years ago and people were willing to take just about any job to get pay check. No more, now they want a dental plan to work a cash register.
And even 25 years ago the field work done in California was being done by migrant workers.
I am not saying we should open the borders and just let anybody and everybody in, but the mayor of NYC lives in the real world and he is talking about what it takes to round up and deport that many people and what effect it will have on the economy.
Drudge is first and foremost an attention whore.You can’t trust him with a keyboard. Heck — I wouldn’t trust him with crayons.
Well for starters there is putting up hay. I had to buy a big round baler because I could not find a hay crew.
What again? My good friend bought a round hay baler because he wanted his hay baled in big round bales. Easier for him to handle.
I do not know why you hate these people so much. and I
do not know why you like these people so much.
I am not saying we should open the borders and just let anybody and everybody in,
Actually you are saying” the border is wide open, why don’t we leave it that way and continue to just let everybody in?”
Now mr Retire05 , here she’s got you, answer this question.
“In fact if Americans are willing to do these jobs, why aren’t they? Why aren’t 100% of the sheetrockers Americans?”
That is a real stumper there, so I’ll just you handle that, while I’m laughing.
First of all, I agree with Bloomberg. A roundup of illegals has nothing but negatives for the country even though it might make some people “feel” good. When it comes to the cost of that feeling, it would be prohibitive. We are talking about rounding up a group of people 5 times larger than our military. The logistics involved in that would be huge. And yeah, taking them to the border would mean many of them showing right back up again even if we had a 100% coast to coast fence from the Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific Ocean. We are probably talking tens of billions of dollars that returns no benefit whatsoever to the economy.
What the mayor said might cause an emotional reaction for some but he pretty much hit on the reality of it. Not only is mass deportation a physical impossibility, it would be costly and damaging to the economy to even attempt it. No news here aside from someone saying it out loud.
Left:
My God who can anyone be so abtuse? I bought a big round baler because I could not find anyone who would come out and work in a hay field. With a big baler you lose some hay, there is waste, but you do not need a crew. Kids would rather work at Burger King. This is played out in agriculture all over the country.
Why argue about this? It is hard to get people to do certain kinds of work, this is not a news falsh to anyone who ever had a farm or ran a business. why would you make it an issue?
And yes, what I hear from a lot of you guys is hate. Hate for the illegals and hate for anyone from the president to people like me who dare to disagree with you.
What bothers me most about all of this is how everyone gets all upset over the correct way to treat the symptoms but nobody wants to confront the real issues and fix the problem. If we are serious about ending the problem of economic migration to the US, then we need to be prepared to embark on a plan to correct the conditions in Mexico and Central America that cause the need to migrate in the first place.
We could assist the Mexican government in rooting out corruption in their police and military and then go on to infrastructure inprovements. We should go about a modern rebuilding of the Pan American Highway to make it of Interstate Highway standard and help each government along the way. Improved access to markets is huge when it comes to improving an economy. Improving power grids, roads, schools, cleaning up police and military would go a long way toward reducing the need for people to migrate and it would improve the economies of every country in the region including us.
Trouble is, too many people are making too much money exactly the way things are now to really do anything at all and the sad thing is that it is the uneducated little people just looking for a better life that get the short end of the stick. Life sucks where they are and it sucks a little less here so here is where they go. We could fix the problem if we really wanted to.
crosspatch:
My brother in law worked for the DEA down there and he was appalled at the poverty. He said drugs were just another commodity to those folks.
I do agree that if Mexico were more like Canada it would solve a lot more of these problems than all the walls ever could.
Some people are just plain crazy as hell, now you want us to go to Mexico and fix their problems. Probably the same people that want us to stay the hell out of Iraq and others peoples business.
So you lose a little more hay so we should allow illegals so you won’t lose a little hay. “that’s a strawman” pun intended.
Just say it like it is, you don’t want border security, you do want amnesty. You don’t want a compromise, you want a surrender.
Crosspatch actually said:
“What bothers me most about all of this is how everyone gets all upset over the correct way to treat the symptoms but nobody wants to confront the real issues and fix the problem.”
This describes Terrye and Crosspatch positions exactly.
I really don’t see hordes of people calling for rounding up illegal aliens. It is a strawman argument. OTOH, when authorities learn of the illegality, we would expect that action be taken. That is, if someone is questiond by police and it turns out he’s here illegally, then something must be done. Looking the other way erodes our society by encouraging cynicism and scofflaws, as well as a general sense of unfairness.
As for Drudge, I think he does a great job of flagging the stories that people will be talking about or would want to talk about.
As for illegals’ doing jobs Americans won’t do, let’s get real. The problem is that Americans did and do perform these jobs, but the pay was more, and the illegals undercut that pay level, doing it for less. Employers take advantage of that situation. They do so to remain competitive with the other guy doing the same thing as well as the companies around the world who benefit from inexpensive labor.
FE, I have heard exactly zero from you on ways this problem can be realistically handled. What I hear is a constant blathering of “build a wall, deport them all”. Isn’t EVER going to happen. I am starting to come to the opinion that you could well be a “moby”. You are either pretending to hold so dearly onto these impossible demands so that others might feel comfort in holding them as well so as to ensure that nothing happens at all, or a Democrat “moby” that is fostering dissent among the Republicans in hopes of getting a Democrat elected.
I have heard not one single viable, doable, sensible suggestion. And actually, I was wrong when I said the Senate bill would require 10 years probation, it is 11 years … 10% longer. In 11 years time people might be talking about cutting off your social security. You might wish we had put those people on the withholding rolls.
Terrye, I should feel sorry for you because you had to buy a round baler? Give me a friggin break. If you were willing to pay an honest wage a) you could have hired workers and b) you would not have had the money to buy the damn baler to begin with. But you were greedy. You were a modern day plantation owner who was trying to obtimize your profits. And you want my pity?
Oh, my I am just about in tears over the 50 year old woman who can’t find anyone to work at her service station. But that is bull because the pumps are now automated and you pay the service station attendant when you are done or insert a credit card and no connection with the attendant. I don’t know why she can’t find help but if I had a guess I would say if people are quiting after the first week, she is probably not someone anyone would want to work for. Maybe she is going through the change, maybe she is greedy or maybe she is just a witch.
If you and she need help, maybe you should be willing to pay more than the $4.00 an hour you can hire an illegal for. But then, it would cut into your profits, and hers.
Why arn’t all sheet rockers Americans. Well let me see, that is really a tough question.
Are you really that stupid? American sheet rockers want a livable wage. They are not willing to work for substandard wages. Some construction companies are still honest and hire American workers but others, like you, who want to optimize their profits, hire illegals so their bank accounts can get larger.
The mayor of NY is a very, VERY rich man. And I am sure, if one wanted to dig deep enough, there would be an illegal in his closet. Just like the illegals that are hired at Nancy Pelosi’s husband winery.
I don’t hate illegals. I want them to come here legally. But you have to reduce your argument to that of insinuating that anyone who doesn’t agree with you is a racist and personally, I am getting pretty fed up with you who decide that we who don’t agree with you are racists and hate illegals. You have no idea of my ethnicity and no idea of what color I am. You are ASSuming.
And now your buddy, Crosspatch, wants us to fix Mexico. Well, gee, wasn’t that what NAFTA was supposed to do? Get Mexico out of the dark ages? Improve it’s economy? Keep Mexicans working in Mexico? Ooops. The corrupt Mexican government just imported Central Americans and encouraged their own to jump the border to the U.S. so they could maximize their profits.
Perhaps they should have bought round balers.
How to solve the illegal problem:
http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/OO/pqo1.html
Operation Wetback: it worked.
Crosspatch are you as stupid and ignorant as you pretend to be?
“build a wall, deport them allâ€
I know damn well you have read things I’ve written before and I have never advocated deporting even one person, so cut the crap.
All I say is “secure the border” that’s it. That’s my position.
You said:
” I have heard not one single viable, doable, sensible suggestion. And actually, I was wrong when I said the Senate bill would require 10 years probation, it is 11 years … 10% longer. In 11 years time people might be talking about cutting off your social security.”
You know very well the Senate Bill doesn’t do anything but give amnesty.
So the very least you can do is make an attempt at honesty, saying you never heard xxx from me has to be wrong, you respond to my suggestions regularly.
Drudge is stale and pale. The vast majority of the rightwing blogosphere is deader than a hammer I’m afraid (present company excepted of course). Did anyone note the lame rollout of the Townhall revolution yesterday? Trust me, you didn’t miss a thing.
AJ, I agree: “…the use of deceipt on the right has become a tall barrier to me ever being willing to call myself a Republican.”
It’s appalling, what has happened to my hemisphere of belief. I feel a bit adrift. But I am not tearing up my RNC card until the next election has passed and my president is safely ensconced for the remainder of his term. I realize it’s a stretch to call him “safe” with the current Rep majority, but it’s a relative thing. I’ll hold my nose and vote for anyone with an “R” on the card for the sole purpose of depriving Pelosi-Reid of their Torture Bush agenda. Failure to do so is not an option, as you know well.
Okay, so you secure the border and that reduces the influx of illegals by 50%. It doesn’t stop them and it doesn’t address the issue of the ones already here. Now you have spent a lot of money to build it and more on ongoing upkeep, to knock out half the problem. Oh, and it gets worse because you will knock out 50% of the problem at first but that percentage will drop as people figure out new and more ingenius ways of getting around, over, under, and through the barrier.
So basically, it is a great idea and I favor a border fence but I have for a very long time as a sovereignty issue, not as an immigration issue because I know that half the illegals gaining access don’t sneek across the Mexican border, they enter with legitimate reasons through legitimate border crossings.