Oct 29 2006

J Fox Irresponsible

Published by at 9:25 pm under All General Discussions,Stem Cell Debate

What kind of person goes out and stumps for the death of young humans without even reading up on what he is promoting? It seems the kind of person is like Michael J Fox:

Fox: Well, I don’t think that’s true. You know, I campaigned for Claire McCaskill. And so I have to qualify it by saying I’m not qualified to speak on the page-to-page content of the initiative. Although, I am quite sure that I’ll agree with it in spirit, I don’t know, I— On full disclosure, I haven’t read it, and that’s why I didn’t put myself up for it distinctly.

Screw you Fox. Not because you are sick and need help. I would move mountains to help you. But screw you for not even understanding what the hell you are discussing. You are as bad as our reader BD, who thinks trying to comprehend genetics after 5 months of reading wikipedia makes him more knowledgeable than those of us who had to be trained AND TESTED to prove our comprehension and competence through college degreed programs. And BS degrees for many of us, not those light -eight BA versions.

Fox is admitting he is clueless and grasping. And so in his desparation he allowed himself to be used to promote clones and then destroy them. As I noted before, he has paid some of the best minds in genetics and biology to solve the Parkinson’s problem and they disagree with Fox and the Bill to enact cloning to create embryonic human beings to harvest for spare parts. It is unbelievable Fox would advocate positions he cannot comprehend or understand. He might as well have proposed bleeding to reduce fevers. That is about as logical as this ESCR debate in general. Makes me sick to see ignorance drive a serious, life threatening debate. It should not be just about Fox’s life, and it definitely should not be about what he does not understand. I guess Rush was right, Fox was just acting. He was acting like he knew what he was talking about. He pretended to understand the issue that can destroy the lives of these young humans we call embryos.

We can prove scientifically and legally that embryos are either clones of a human being or a new life based on conception. There are no other options or variants. It is time to take this to court and settle it once and for all and have the debate on the facts and legal precendence, and not this nonsense.

4 responses so far

4 Responses to “J Fox Irresponsible”

  1. BIGDOG says:

    AJ you better read this…:)

    BTW….just so you know, i dont agree with MJ Fox and his twisting, to tarnish Talent. Talent doesnt want federal funding of stem cell research, but agrees with stem cell research, just not SCNT and prefers the ANT (Altered Nuclear Transfer) method. Talent consulted with a local scientist Dr. Neaves. This is where your so called BS in biology and how no experts agree with me loses ground.

    You are claiming…. you know what and when cells are called human, many scieintists disagree with you and your sacrilegious claims are not accurate. BTW i have no degree in colledge to speek of but what i do have is wisdom. How do you obtain wisdom? you grow in your studies, just like scientist grow in their fields of study or people grow in the lord; “you study to show thyself approved unto god i workman needeth not be ashamed rightly dividing the word of trueth.” You grow sir and i am learning more in 5 months then i would have ever learned at any colledge level and you are the epitome of “thinking you know something from a degree”, instead of practice. Im trying to learn, so give me a f^*%in break. Are you against a mans advancement and knowledge on this subject? I dont listen to people who claim to be something i cant verify.

    Speeking of wich. The Stowers Institute will leave Missouri because some of our politicians are trying to make SCNT illegal, hence the amendment would stop any political action and help resolve the issue to keep our wonderfull institute of HIGHER learning here. You say im not educated at a higher level, admittedly true, but i know the facts about this initiative. Again…i have researched it and studied it because an amendment to the MO constitution is a very important issue to me and I AM NOT TAKING IT LIGHTLY!!! yeh i yelled!!!

    You also support the death of pre-embryos and human embryos, by means of IVF; to the end result of a human being(newborn). SCNT end results are cells, not body parts from a cloned human being, wich has never happened and will not happen in accordance with this initiative. Can specific organs and tissue be created using this SCNT technique without the end result being a reproductive clone? They say its possible, but thats why the research is important in this new field of study.

    Therapeutic Cloning: (a.k.a. Somatic cell nuclear transfer or research cloning): This starts with the same procedure as is used in adult DNA cloning. The resultant embryo would be allowed to grow for perhaps 14 days. It’s stem cells would then be extracted and encouraged to grow into a piece of human tissue or a complete human organ for transplant. The end result would not be a human being; it would be a replacement organ, or piece of nerve tissue, or quantity of skin. The first successful therapeutic cloning was accomplished in 2001-NOV by Advanced Cell Technology, a biotech company in Worcester, MA….source religioustolerence.org

    Furthermore, you make your sacrilegious claims to Dr. Neaves, an expert, with more scientific and religious backbone you could ever have.

    William Neaves, president and CEO of the Stowers Institute, a biomedical research facility in Kansas City.

    “Yet a great majority of Americans regardless of religious tradition do not believe that cells in a petri dish are a person,” says Neaves, adding, “Nor do I. If I felt that was a person, I wouldn’t advocate research on that either.”

    My personal perspective:

    I know there is a distinct difference between human cellular life and a human life. Granted they are cells from a human being, but the end result is not cloning a human being and has never made it passed the 6 cell pre-embryonic developement stage. Thats right SCNT method has not produced anything close to a sentient human, nor a blastocyst (morulas central cavity appears).

    A 16 cell morula is what scientists refer to as an end to the pre-embryo stage.The blastocyst has fully attached itself to endometrium and placental blood circulation has begun. Most physicians, scientists recognise this as the beginning of human life…..i.e. pregnancy. Scientists say that once a “primitive streak” appears it is at this point of developement wich signifies the creation of a unique, potential human being and the fetus’ central nervous system. The spontaneous division of the blastocyst is no longer possible. The pre-embryo is now referred to as an embryo. It is a very small blob of undifferentiated (embryonic) tissue. Which show no visible separation into their different structural parts as of yet. Heart begins to beat around a week or so later.

    Aj argues that pre-embronic cellular stages are human beings, yet you support IVF and your convictions on this matter are very telling. I see credulous behavior on your part. Knowing this allows me to say, you are selective in your so called biology studies and you ignore scientific fact wich supports, ICM are nothing more than cells.

    If my prespective is wrong then explain to me how its wrong. None of you have yet to do so. However scientists do back me up, hence defering to the experts.

    Removes gloves: mano a mano

    I dont except your BS in biology, i havent scene your transscripts nor
    degree. What exactly is your continuum field of study? I dont except your innuendos as facts. How ironic, i see them as BS.

    You say in the other thread this discussion is over. Yet you use me, to the point of abusing my character, for you to somehow create a point of contention to continue discussions, again more BS. You are starting to sound like a frivolous liberal, with no concrete evidence of the shit you are shoveling. In fact i defer to the experts and you sir are not one and neither is the so called good doctor (credentials please). Matter of fact the Doc admitted he made a mistake supporting IVF and maybe he doesnt want me making the same mistake he made as a physician.

    You know what AJ, im not him and really dont care if you all agree with me. I know my basis is scientific and most of your contentions are phylisophical and theory at best.

    AJ……I like it here dont make it miserable for me to be here. I request you stick to the issue and stop be-littleing me. This is not why i visit here. In fact…ill just say, stop your BS now. I will only tolerate so much abuse from you. This is your site, if you wana use it to berate people who disagrees with you, then why even have an avenue to post discussions. Just start out saying, im right and your wrong. Close all posting options and talk to yourself.

    Man i hate being so blunt to someone i like, but for f&*!s sake man, you leave me no choice but to distance myself from your
    psychosomatic ramblings..

  2. AJStrata says:

    Sorry BD, but your ignorance is dangerous to human lives. You will not get a bye from me. And I can get any scientist to admit to the basics. I have in the past. They fall back to what it means to be ‘concious’ after they fold on the point of conception. Bring them on – I never lose the debate because they know I have their science on my side.

    An embryo is a human being. It is a human organism. You can take any critical cells or tissues and organs from a ‘donor’ and end up killing the donor to create the replacement organ, or tissue or limb. Just because the product is not a human being doesn’t mean the source wasn’t.

    We are done on this issue. You are now what must be fought to preserve human life. That was your choice – not mine.

  3. BIGDOG says:

    You completely ignored the pre-embryo status.

    You completely ignored your support for IVF and their success to death ratio of pre-embryos and embryos.

    Show me what scientist backdown from you. I wana see evidence not hearsay.

    If we are done on this issue dont use me in your posts. PERIOD!!!

    Good thing i deffered to the experts, instead of a psuedo biologist. One would think you could easily discredit my perspective with fact not innuendos.

    In light of being done. Yepp your done like a cooked goose.

  4. AJStrata says:

    Big Dog,

    You completely ignore facts. I can use your comments as I see fit – this is my blog. I pay for it. One more dipstick outburst from you and I will ban you. You can be the first one ever banned from this site. And to think you will do it by demanding to stay ignorant. Incredible.

    I will address one thing about IVF you also just don\’t get. The process of conception is still a very unknown process. Many genetic combinations are deadly, and conception hits these with regularity. The reason many IVF embryos don\’t take is not because of waste, it is because of genetic problems between mother and father.

    Now I am not for disposing of unused IVF embryos. I think they should be adopted if possible. I am also not for creating extra embryos. But the process of IVF is an effort to create a life – not destroy one. So right there IVF is superior to cloning for research.

    I do not explain this for your benefit – you have become the example of what not to be in this debate. I post this for folks still interesting in learning about the subject and the key factors of the debate. Right now contraceptives kill more children than IVF. So from a strict pro-life position contraception should be banned. I am not that kind of pro-life person. What I am is someone who wants a public debate based on the facts, and not misinformation.

    And for that reason you have decided to be the example of how not to face this issue. That has been your decision from the start. And I have made it clear to you that was a bad decision on your part. I am not a psuedo-biologists. I am a trained and certified biologist and have the degree to prove it. You would be more the psuedo-biologist. You and those idiots you quoted who don\’t understand that you are not just a lump of cells sitting in a chair – but a human being. And that your life started at conception (in or out of the uterus – it doesn\’t matter). The reason you were not a bunch of tissues from your mom was clear when your DNA was created. For see, if anyone had measured your DNA at the embryonic stage, they would learn you were a male. Therefore your cells could never, ever have been from your mother alone.

    Pre-embryo, post embryo – it make no difference. These are stages in the life of an human being. The DNA in every stage is unique to that individual. While you were a male at conception, you did not become a fully functional male until puberty. That is because the definition of male and female are completely tied to reproduction. So what if you were pre-pubescent and sometime later an adult. Your DNA never changed and that makes you an individual. Every time you post you explore a new frontier of ignorance. It is just stunning. But it changes nothing. You have no idea what you are talking about and plenty of us have tried to explain it to you. All of us much more competent than you. If you think this is complicated you are kidding yourself. This stuff is like addition is to calculus. This is the simple stuff and you still don\’t get it.

    And your ego is why you never will get it. Now chill out or take a hike. This is my blog.