Nov 09 2006

The War Is Not Over

37 responses so far

37 Responses to “The War Is Not Over”

1. For Enforcement says:

   November 9, 2006 at 5:00 pm

   Excellent Squiggler, but all that is lost on Ken, he doesn’t understand that he is the fool you are speaking of.

   They are on the OTHER side of the world?

   Funny, I thought the World Trade Center was in this hemisphere.

2. Squiggler says:

   November 9, 2006 at 5:29 pm

   We have put in power a group who believes we should do away with our military. Ask San Francisco? We have put a woman in power who represents the only district in the entire state of California who refused to pass Jessica’s Law to protect our children from child predators and we are going to trust her to protect us from terrorists? We are putting in power a man who is despised by the military and thinks they are “broken” and “cold-blooded killers” and we think we’ll have a national policy to protect us.

   This is a disaster of major proportions in the making and I agree 100% with another post of AJ’s exactly where the blame lies … the purists who I brand as selfish spoiled brats. As an old broad, I probably won’t live long enough to see the ultimate fall of the West, but my children might and my grandchildren certainly will if we don’t take a stand now. You can call me all kinds of names, accuse me of being a scare monger, or any other ad hom you can think of, it won’t change the outcome.

3. Ken says:

   November 9, 2006 at 7:10 pm

   Limerick—you neglect to mention America’s delivery of Eastern Europe to Stalin and assume Germany and the Soviet wouldn’t have fought to the likely exhausted standstill sans US intervention in the war.

   It was ok for the UK but not Germany to dominate Europe for a century? Hitler desired England to keep its empire and much of the UK ruling elite desired terms with him. Not the imperialist Churchill wing, however –which lost their empire despite Winston’s vow to
   salvage all of it.

   As far as the Pacific theater, it is America’s imperative to keep
   any Oriental threat checkmated while staying out of European
   affairs, but FDR goaded Japan into its attack and was forewarned
   as the Pultizer Prize winner John Toland showed in “Infamy.”

   Moreover it has been well argued that US intervention in World
   War One helped lead to the rise of Hitler. So your postulations about the US being the great freedom-dispenser are tempered.

   Squiggler-much of what you outline puts the cart before the horse.
   Attacks in Lebanon, on the Cole beg the question of whether our presence there is/was justified, attacks here are attributable in part to a priori intervention there. You assume American Empire
   is benign, spy ships, barriers for an Israeli invasion etc. then
   are angry when it proves unpopular to the inhabitants of the
   regions.

   Factually, the presence sparks the anger and the presence
   does nothing to maintain the broad American standard of living, only line the pockets of the plutocratic interests. You have been
   indoctrinated to believe the intersts are synonomous.

   You will find when we come home, they are not.

4. For Enforcement says:

   November 9, 2006 at 7:51 pm

   Ken, you can say all that with a straight face, the same
   way you deny being from France.

   ‘you neglect to mention America’s delivery of Eastern Europe to Stalin and assume Germany and the Soviet wouldn’t have fought to the likely exhausted standstill sans US intervention in the war.’

   Roosevelt and the Dems did that, not America. And you assume they WOULD have fought to a standstill? based on what?

   It was ok for the UK but not Germany to dominate Europe for a century? Which century would that be?

   Hitler desired England to keep its empire and much of the UK ruling elite desired terms with him. And you know this how?

   You do realize that Germany attacked UK first, don’t you?

   As far as the Pacific theater, it is America’s imperative to keep
   any Oriental threat checkmated while staying out of European
   affairs, Why do you concede America’s right here. That’s a first for you.

   but FDR goaded Japan into its attack and was forewarned
   as the Pultizer Prize winner John Toland showed in “Infamy.”
   But, he had no proof, only wild speculation, akin to Pres Bush planning the WTC destruction. Ken’s fantasy.

   Moreover it has been well argued that US intervention in World
   War One helped lead to the rise of Hitler. But not by sensible people. Only fruitcakes like Ken.

   So your postulations about the US being the great freedom-dispenser are tempered.
   And you’re in Oz.

   Squiggler-much of what you outline puts the cart before the horse.
   Attacks in Lebanon, on the Cole beg the question of whether our presence there is/was justified,
   So the U S Navy has no right to be on the open seas or any port where they have permission? What’s this? Ken’s rule?

   attacks here are attributable in part to a priori intervention there. You assume American Empire And which nations are in the American Empire?

   Factually, the presence sparks the anger And you’re saying that if you get near someone and they object to you being in the room, they have the RIGHT to kill you? Ken, the caveman days are in the past.

   You will find when we come home, they are not.

   And where were we that prompted 9/11?

   Ken, I don’t expect you to answer these questions because it would show your ignorance, so I’m just pointing them out to you.

5. The Macker says:

   November 9, 2006 at 8:19 pm

   All,
   I recommend Fromkin’s book: “A Peace to End All Peace” for the creation of the modern ME.
   http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0805068848/sixapart-20

   Ken, Check out “The Myth of Palestine” :
   http://www.allthingsbeautiful.com/all_things_beautiful/2006/03/the_myth_of_pal.html

6. Ken says:

   November 9, 2006 at 8:33 pm

   For Enforcement likes to shed the “American” appellation when
   Democrats do something of which he disapproves. Sorry,chump,
   FDR’s regime represented America which was turning over half
   of Europe to Stalin, not “dispensing freedom.”

   The peace overtures to England by Hitler are well documented,as is
   his allowing the escape at Dunkirk.

   The unlettered FE confuses historians like Chalmers Johnson
   William Appleman Williams and Harry Elmer Barnes for fruitcakes, when it is he who is as yet unripe.

   Cryptographer affidavits of breaking Japanese codes aren’t evidence?

   America has an Empire of Bases and a military-industrial complex
   which was moving its parts in unwelcome ways and bankers financing governments and political organizations abroad in many cases unrepresentative of their peoples’ wishes..US actions which did not serve the common man hereabouts in many respects at the time we were hit on 9/11/2001.

7. Ken says:

   November 9, 2006 at 8:35 pm

   http://fairuse.100webcustomers.com/fairenough/latimes543.html

   I reccommend conservative Republican historian Andrew Bacevich’s short take on Iraq within the context of Empire …and his recent books credited with the piece.

8. Limerick says:

   November 9, 2006 at 9:04 pm

   Ken says………”I reccommend”………….well that will make me run right down and NOT buy the book.

9. For Enforcement says:

   November 9, 2006 at 11:28 pm

   That French Guy says;

   For Enforcement likes to shed the “American” appellation when
   Democrats do something of which he disapproves. Sorry,chump,
   FDR’s regime represented America which was turning over half
   of Europe to Stalin, not “dispensing freedom.”

   Ha, all this Iraqi stuff is Pres Bush against the WILL of the people, according to you and you think it is all his fault. Be consistent. Besides there were too many communists in FDR’s admin.

   The peace overtures to England by Hitler are well documented,as is
   his allowing the escape at Dunkirk.

   Yep, right up til he started dropping the old bombs, before UK dropped any on him. If Pres Bush told Saddam he wanted to be friends with him then started lobbing cruise missles on him, you would blame Pres Bush wouldn’t you. Be consistent.

   unlettered FE, I’ve told you before No. 3 that I’ll absolutely guarantee you I have more letters than you.
   Do you not understand that ‘arguing the case’ doesn’t make it true. you are ‘arguing the case’ against Israel, and you ain’t said anything true yet.

   I shouldn’t do this Ken, but since you apparently can’t do it yourself, here are the top two definitions of empire:
   1. a group of nations or peoples ruled over by an emperor, empress, or other powerful sovereign or government: usually a territory of greater extent than a kingdom, as the former British Empire, French Empire, Russian Empire, Byzantine Empire, or Roman Empire.
   2. a government under an emperor or empress.

   Which one of these defines owning a military base? We also pay the mother country rent for these bases. Hell we still pay Cuba rent on Gitmo, is Cuba part of the Empire of America.

   Coming up with ignorant stuff like that will not get you back up to No. 2. (it’s a dumbass list, not ignorant list)
   Just like ‘arguing the case’ doesn’t make it true, calling it an empire don’t make it an empire. But I wouldn’t expect you to understand that.

   now that link to that notable Prof: here is his first sentence: “neoconservative notables acknowledging in a forthcoming issue of Vanity Fair that the Iraq war is a disaster, the debate over “who lost Iraq?”

   First there are no ‘neo’ conservatives. they were neo in the ’60s but we don’t still call 62 Chev’s ‘new’ do we?
   And if he thinks we’ve ‘lost’ the war, there is no point in reading any further, he obviously isn’t very well read or informed. So sh*tcan him.
   You don’t need to provide links to your propaganda. There is enough written by conservatives without that junkmail.

10. The Macker says:

    November 10, 2006 at 1:33 am

    FE,
    Good points!
    Plus, the “neo-cons” are backtracking on that Vanity Fair article.

    Ken employs the misnomer, “empire,” to describe America’s use of strength for good in a part of the world that has seen so little of it.

    “we don’t still call 62 Chev’s ‘new’ do we?”- LOL

11. wiley says:

    November 10, 2006 at 1:43 am

    Ken is a fool. Perhaps well-read, but obviously only books & articles bent severely left and factually suspect. The GWOT has practically nothing to do with the Isaraeli-Palestine conflict, other than it is used as an excuse. The Arabs don’t like the Palestinians — they just like using them as an excuse and to fight & destroy Israel. But Al Qaeda and the Islamo jihadists would be doing exactly what they’re doing whether there was an Israel or not. And if we don’t wake up, they will be striking again, soon — here.

12. wiley says:

    November 10, 2006 at 1:51 am

    Well, I overstated the Israel-Palestine conflict in terms of its relationship to the GWOT. After all, it was Arafat who perhaps is the pioneer of today’s terrorists. And of course, the Palestininas continue to employ terrorism to weaken the Israeli resolve. But, it is a secondary front compared to the radical Islamo Jihadists attacking countries worldwide.

13. Ken says:

    November 10, 2006 at 5:49 pm

    For Enforcement

    You’re still short a few letters of lettered.
    The “neocons” were not conservative in 1960,they were liberals
    ant Trotsky admirers…but strongly “right” when it came to
    issues involving Israel.

    Bush represents America in history’s eyes and ultimately the
    “people” must take responsibility for his misdeeds. And
    America’s reputation as a “freedom-dispenser” in the
    world has seen its last run in the world’s eyes.

    America has an empire of bases, the modern version of empire.

    Wiley
    If polls taken throughout the Moslem world reflect the opinion
    that their chief complaint against America is its financing and
    military alliance with Israel, and that this is the prime reason
    many join the part of the jihad utilized to operate against
    American (rather than, say, Indian) interests, you better
    believe it’s not Jerry Springer’s show they hate.

    And what the jihad does against other countries has little
    or no bearing on us.

14. wiley says:

    November 11, 2006 at 1:00 am

    Ken,
    Show me those “polls” — wake up, it’s their excuse du jour. It’s a small world, you better believe attacks against other countries affect us. Isolation isn’t possible anymore, unless you’re OK with another great depression and worse. Get out of your fantasy world.

15. The Macker says:

    November 11, 2006 at 2:04 am

    Wiley,
    Great point!

16. Barbara says:

    November 11, 2006 at 7:37 pm

    You know, Time magazine is responsible for all this “poor Palestinians” and “Palestinian nation” junk with their spread a few years ago about Palestine and the Palestinians. I even bought into it for a day or so myself, feeling sorry for these people. Until I remembered history and recalled how Israel came in to being and what Israel has gone through trying to survive. But the Arabs latched on to the Palestinian problem and used it for their own ends. Of course, you didn’t see any of these countries actually trying to help these people or absorbing them into their own countries. No, not at all, to them these people were trash but useful trash. They provided a call to arms and a reason for doing so to bring in the ignorant and gullible.

17. The Macker says:

    November 11, 2006 at 8:17 pm

    Barbara,
    How true! But not “trash.”
    The Palestinian’s squalid situation was fueled by corrupt imposters like Yasser Arrafat, by misdirected funding of the UN and the EU, by a generation of zombies created by their schools of hate and their enablers worldwide. Their wealthy Islamic neighbors just look the other way.

    They are victims of their own hate.