Nov 10 2006
Liberals Unleashed
As I posted yesterday Germany did decide to charge Bush administration officials with war crimes.
A lawsuit in Germany will seek a criminal prosecution of the former Defense Secretary and other U.S. officials for their alleged role in abuses at Abu Ghraib and Gitmo.
…
The plaintiffs in the case include 11 Iraqis who were prisoners at Abu Ghraib, as well as Mohammad al-Qahtani, a Saudi held at Guantanamo, whom the U.S. has identified as the so-called “20th hijacker” and a would-be participant in the 9/11 hijackings. As TIME first reported in June 2005, Qahtani underwent a “special interrogation plan,” personally approved by Rumsfeld, which the U.S. says produced valuable intelligence. But to obtain it, according to the log of his interrogation and government reports, Qahtani was subjected to forced nudity, sexual humiliation, religious humiliation, prolonged stress positions, sleep deprivation and other controversial interrogation techniques.
So the guy was stripped down and told to squat for a while. Did it save lives? Yes it did! So who wants to die so an terrorist doesn’t have to face humiliation. Remember what we all wrote about the Geneva Conventions. The way they are written means we could be limited to “please’ and ‘pretty please’, so as to not offend these vicious killers we capture.
And not to be done by their EU counterparts, the Democrats feel safe to test the waters by investigating (and therefore further exposing) the NSA’s Terrorist Surveillance Program. The Dems are addicted to the subpoena.
It should be clear to everyone that an administration that allows war crimes is one that could face impeachment for high crimes. Will the Dems do anything to protect our President (he is OUR President whether you voted or him or not)?
Al Qaeda is cheered by the news the Dems are coming to surrender to them, the Europeans are ready to charge us with war crimes against the people targetting them for annihilation, and the Dems want to expose the terrorist defenses we have in place to stop attack. The voters did not give the Democrats this kind of mandate. Now they have to say something about what they plan to do – the run a third of the government now.
51 Responses to “Liberals Unleashed”
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We will be attacked now in the near future and the Dems, Dail KOS and Moveon.org will probably be celebrating with Al Qaeda – they will probable help them plan the attack. If Americans don’t wake up these people on the left will kill us all.
Where is Kosovo in relation to Germany. They just declared Turkish as their national language. I think Osama’s plans have just sped up.
Add to the above, the Ottoman Empire is on the move.
AJ,
I also heard that one of the “prosecution” witnesses about Abu Ghraib is none other than former Brigadier General Janice Karpinski!! The one who should be held MOST accountable for what actually DID happen at that prison is going to betray her country and testify against her former boss. Ms Karpinski is a disgrace to her uniform and a traitor to her country…plain and simple.
This is a HORRIBLE turn of events! There’s an attack coming and all people seem to care about is punishing the United States who are the last hope for this planet. I’m just sick with worry.
Carol
‘The Dems are addicted to the subpoena.’-AJ
Yep. The Presidency is no longer an American post for all of us it is a partisan post used only for partisan power.
The only bright spot I can find in this story is the fact that Germany has been fighting us tooth and nail in the last few years to NOT withdraw troops. They need them to help the economy there and I don’t think that Merkel would let something like this go through. Schroeder would, but Merkel seems to have a pretty level head on her shoulders.
The Dems, however, need to send a strong message to Europe right now that actions like this will get them nowhere.
“You can’t handle the truth” as Nicholoson once said.
But allow me to impart a parcel.
The techniques of abuse were taught largely to the US by Israeli
“experts” in the Arab culture, purportedly stressing humiliation.
Of course this “expertise” hasn’t squashed “terrorism” against
Israel in fifty years, but that’s another story.
The point is, what Strata belittles, according to the “experts”
is worse than more painful techniques to the Arab.
And Strata…”did it save lives? Yes it did.” Two things wrong here.
One we are asked to take the word of a regieme which has already been less than honest about the war. Two, prove it, AJ.
Three, no it didn’t. When the torture was exposed, the Iraqis
joined the insurgency and/or grew in sympathy for it in droves.
With the net result of worse losses for the US.
Finally Strata says Europeans are turning on us rather than
the people “targeting them for annihilation” forgetting about
the truce in effect offered by bin Laden for countries which
took no part in the Iraq misadventure.
Do we actually have some sort of treaty that makes it legally plausible that Germany can just prosecute people in THIS country? And if we do, maybe it’s time to let the rest of the country know about it, because I imagine it’s going to be a big surprise to an awful lot of people.
Oh look, it’s Ken, here to tell us it’s all about the JOOOOOOOOOOS.
Charges Sought Against Rumsfeld Over Prison Abuse…
The ACLU calling for investigations and the Center For Constitutional Rights pushing for War Crime Charges! I told you it was coming!
HERE IT IS!
Just days after his resignation, former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is about to face more repercus…
The liberal nutters on the left in Europe and in the Democrat Party persecute their political opponents – always have and always will -they hug a terrorist and destroy their political enemies. They accuse others of “fear and smear” while in reality it is the own MO. If we don’t try to nip all of this in the bud it will destroy this country.
TIME TO CLOSE THE AIRFORCE BASE FROM GERMANY AND WATCH THEIR ECONOMY GO DOWN THE SHITTER.
It is only obvious that the old western europe has forgotten who there
friends are,I am sure many of the eastern european countries would be thrilled to have us move our bases to their countries with money
that would be generated they would be doing cartwheels!
I find Ken to be annoying
1977…CBS News…
(Studio) West German commandos rescue hostages held by hijackers of Lufthansa jet at Mogadishu, Somalia, airport. 3 of 4 hijackers are killed and West German officials report that 3 urban guerrillas, whose release from prison was condition of release of hostages, have committed suicide.
hmmmmmmm…I wonder how and why these prisoners of West Germany suddenly were able to commit suicide. Sounds like we need an investigation and charges brought.
Don’t answer Ken. Just tell him to take his liberal ass somewhere else.
Why is he here? to bug you. These are very angry people you are dealing with. So f-ck ‘em.
Well,
• Germany started WWI and allied with the Islamic Turks
• Germany financed the Reds in the Russion Revolution
• Germany started cheating on the WWI peace accords right away
• Germany started WWII
• The Arabs allied with the Nazis in WWII
• The Arabs drove the Jews out of all the ME except the protected Palestine
•The Germans effectively allied with Saddam Hussein
•The Europeans still resent us for saving them multiple times
• Ergo,
We should choose friends that we can trust.
Germany Seeking Charges Against Rumsfeld, Others…
This ought to make the nutroots happy:
Just days after his resignation, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is about to face more repercussions for his involvement in the troubled wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. New legal documents, to be filed next wee…
i think it’s important to get the facts right about drudge’s sensational headlines. the 12 losers bringing the suit went court shopping. they found germany with the appropriate loophole. the general in question is desperately hoping for a carteresque type pardon from hillary down the road.
from wikipedia:
On May 5, 2005, President Bush approved Karpinski’s demotion to colonel from the rank of brigadier general. Her demotion was not officially related to the abuse at Abu Ghraib prison. The allegations against her were for dereliction of duty, making a material misrepresentation to investigators, failure to obey a lawful order and shoplifting. Karpinski had failed to inform the Army as required when filling out an official document about an earlier arrest on an Air Force base in the US on a misdemeanour charge of stealing less than US$50 worth of cosmetics from a military store.
this case will give proof to the adage—”the inmates are running the asylum”. it can only hurt the dems……..
Macker
So you agreee with me America should stay out of European affairs
from now on, allying with none, opposing none?
Germany did not bring the case, the case was filed in Germany. And this is not the first time some idiot tried something like this either.
Frontpagemag.com is a useful resource for articles about anti-Semitism by people who refer to themselves as progressives.
Ken’s view of Israel is not as new as he thinks. Although Ken’s view of Israel is very fashionable within the Democrat Party, on America’s college campuses, and in Eurabia, the most amazing group of people who agree with Ken are people of Jewish heritage who vote Democrat.
Michelle Malkin has a comment called, “Before you go ballistic on Germany” that has information as follows:
“The German government isn’t filing the lawsuit. It’s 11 Iraqis and a Saudi who went court-shopping and filed in Germany because the country “provides ‘universal jurisdiction’ allowing for the prosecution of war crimes and related offenses that take place anywhere in the world.” A previous lawsuit was filed on similar grounds and was dismissed. Yes, Germany has its share of weasels. But German Chancellor Angela Merkel isn’t one of them and outrage at the country is premature.”
An excerpt from an article in frontpagemag.com is as follows:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=25370
The British war effort was at the outset ambivalent, indecisive. From ‘36 to ‘39, when the Palestinian Arabs, upset by the influx of Jewish refugees from Hitler, started a three-year Intifada, the British Mandate authorities in Palestine alternated between grudging support of the embattled Jews and outright sabotage of their efforts at self-defense. On one hand, they made Jewish arms illegal, and forced the Hagana people to hide their store of antiquated rifles under kibbutz manure piles. On the other hand, they assigned one of their most brilliant field officers, Orde Wingate, to be a kind of T.E. Lawrence of the Jews, and to train them, in his Special Night Squads, in the arts of irregular warfare.
However, as the Brits mobilized for the coming war against Hitler, their policy makers resolved their ambivalence in favor of appeasing the Arabs, and outright hostility to the Jews. Together with Hitler, they acted so as to create the maximum tally of dead European Jews.
Thus, just before Hitler invaded Poland and intensified his own war against the Jews, the Brits – by imposing their strict White paper policy against unrestricted Jewish immigration to Palestine – became Hitler’s de facto collaborators in that war. The Brits, who were about to declare war on Germany for the sake of the Poles, at the same time allied themselves implicitly with Hitler’s war aims in regard to the Jews. Even as Hitler turned occupied Poland into a killing ground for trapped Jews, the British White Paper of 1939 restricting Jewish immigration locked them out of Palestine – the one refuge especially created (by the Balfour Declaration of 1921) to take them in. The Brits have never owned up to this, but they bear a responsibility for the Holocaust that is second only to that of Nazi Germany.
kathie, the Kosovars used to speak only Turkish, so that’s normal for them. They are of Turkish&Albanian descent.
We should shutdown all US military ops in Germany. That would shut down about half their economy.
Ken, the terrorists say they are making progress faster than they thought (interpret as ‘we never expected the dems to win’
And we won’t quit til we blow up the white house.
So much for your ‘they only want us out, they don’t want to come over here’ theory. But you’ve never been right before anyhow.
kariq,”Do we actually have some sort of treaty that makes it legally plausible that Germany can just prosecute people in THIS country?”
No. nothing they do is binding on US citizens.
I find Ken to be annoying Ha, Ken even finds Ken annoying.
Ken, as usual, you run in, spout trash, somebody asks you something and you don’t have an answer. Duh, Typical French Guy.
We save their ass, they hate us.
Hey, the Dems will probably go over and testify also. Only thing is, the trial will never take place. Pres Bush won’t allow it. It wouldn’t be legally binding anyhow on US citizens. We are not signatories to the World Court.
We should countersue the terrorists for sawing off heads, we could I guess but that’s not torture. Wearing womens’ underwear is really torture tho.
The lawsuit has not been filed. It first has to be recognized by the German gov. They tried something similar last year and it was dismissed. Merkle won’t allow it. It’s the MSM trying to get the ball rolling so Waxman can start his inquisition. He’ll look like Mr.Mcgoo going after the American interests. Public opinion will go against them just like it went against congress during Clinton’s impeachment.
Did you ask me something, FE?
Macker’s chronology implies we should befriend (or oppose)no one anymore in Europe, a comment which I find very piquant, even if I say so myself, and will even embelliesh it by also saying his chronology shows we should never have fought in Europe in either “world” war, which we kind of put the “world” in.
The “White House” threat in context was a transparent goad,
saying you better leave Iraq or we will come get you there.
Just as Germany was no threat to conquer America had we
firmed our defences and stayed out of Europe, the jihad is
no threat to conquer us here…you can come out of the closet now.
Ken, some of your sayings.
You’re still short a few letters of lettered.
The “neocons” were not conservative in 1960,they were liberals
ant Trotsky admirers…but strongly “right” when it came to
issues involving Israel.
And my reply is:
reading comprehension 2 (1 was yesterday) By definition: in the early ’60s liberals that became conservatives. new conservatives. That was in the early ’60s. So I ask again, a ‘62 Chevy is not still neo is it? Anyone that joined the conservatives later were not covered in the definition of neocon. If you don’t get that, maybe you need ‘understanding comprehension 1.
Bush represents America in history’s eyes and ultimately the
“people” must take responsibility for his misdeeds. And
America’s reputation as a “freedom-dispenser” in the
world has seen its last run in the world’s eyes.
So why have you been blaming Pres Bush for everything and not the American people. So since I ask the question, you change your definition. Be consistent.
America has an empire of bases, the modern version of empire.
And would you cut and paste that definition from a dictionary somewhere. Or did you just pull it out your butt?
Oh and Ken, I can’t let this one go by without comment, you said:
“America’s reputation as a “freedom-dispenser” in the
world has seen its last run in the world’s eyes.”
You want to bet who will be called when the next tsunami hits?
You want to bet who will be called when the next country is invaded by someone else, ie, Kuwait in 1990
You want to bet who will be called when a major terrorist stike occurs.
You want to bet who will be called when the next country ‘loses’ it’s freedom.
It won’t be France or Germany.
Ken,
Wrong conclusions.
There are governments we can trust and others we must be wary of.
Just as part of the casus belli for the Iraq Operation was humanitarian, freeing Europe and protecting Britain were central to our entering WWII. And Germany must answer to history for allowing its partner, Turkey, to commit genocide against the Armenians.
This President had the courage to stanf for humanity.
Ken, I pasted this from above you name up there, but you didn’t really say it did you? If you did, I haven’t been giving you enough credit. You are much more ignorant than I thought.
“it by also saying his chronology shows we should never have fought in Europe in either “world” war, which we kind of put the “world” in.”
Germany declared war on the USA, not the other way around.
The “White House” threat in context was a transparent goad,
saying you better leave Iraq or we will come get you there.
Just as Germany was no threat to conquer America had we
firmed our defences and stayed out of Europe,
Surrrrreeeeeee it was.
Clarification:
The Germany/Turkey/Armenia humanitarian crimes were WWI. Germany did its own version in WWII.
And The Baathists did their version recently.
FE is correct. The planet wouldn’t have been safe for anyone, had Germany controlled all of Europe including Great Britain, and its partner, Japan, controlled all of Asia.
Such illusionary paradigms of history the “indispensable”
American lives by. Far along in the processs of displacement.
A trifle first….if For Enforcement wishes to tell Richard Perle he can’t call himself a neoconservative, fine. Let’s settle for
“dual loyalist.”
As far as apportioning blame I fulfill my duty when I present
the case against Bush policy to the best of my ability to the optimium
amount of Americans. I lamented to many as early as 2004
the unwinnable war could only be curtailed by mass street
demonstrations and the Vietnam-era like. It goes without
saying an aspect of “the people get the government they deserve”
is true, which in no way absolves the ruling elite from their
misdeeds.
The phrase “empire of bases” can be googled easily. You will
find many commentators and Historians use it freely to apply to
the American Empire.much to your chagrin.
And FE, tsunami aid has nothing to do with “freedom-dispensing.”
Nor did England call us when a major terrorist attack occured
in London.
And America will lose the Southwest before France loses its
“freedom.” But if you fear al Qaeda attacking the White House
better get to work on that by calling for the egress of US troops
from Iraq-might do good in this respect to transfer a goodly
part to the Rio Grande.
Ken, thanks to you the Israeli’s accepted my proposal on naming nuke warhead number 1……It is now officially ‘Chutzpah’! You rock Ken!
Ken
“.if For Enforcement wishes to tell Richard Perle he can’t call himself a neoconservative, fine. Let’s settle for
“dual loyalist.”
You could call yourself intelligent, but that wouldn’t mean you are.
Richard Perle could call himself an African American Pakistani, but that wouldn’t mean he is one.
You could call yourself a WWII vet, but I don’t think you are. Get my drift?
and then: “The phrase “empire of bases” can be googled easily. You will
find many commentators and Historians use it freely to apply to
the American Empire.much to your chagrin.”
I could just cut and paste what I just said but don’t let your ignorance interfere with the truth. Calling America an empire Don’t make it one. And that’s your chagrin, You’ve been listening to Noam too much. Just because many commentators and Historians are ignorant doesn’t mean you…. well, …. maybe it does.
Nor did England call us when a major terrorist attack occured
in London. That was a Major attack? Hmmm. repeat above.
I don’t fear the WhiteHouse being attacked.
Ken, you better go have a helping of tacks, you ain’t too sharp tonight.
Ken, I just don’t know about you, as justification for “empire of bases” you say to google it. Okay, looks like Chalmers Johnson coined the phrase. Well, just what the hell would you expect of a communist Berkeley professor? Geez, at least use a reputable writer for your references.
Ken, just to show you a little to dissolution you about your hero Chalmers, reading down his article he talks about the huge buildup of bases around the world and who is profiting.
He says we are building 13 Super Aircraft Carrier Groups. Baloney, we’ve had 13 carrier groups since the ’50’s thru the 60s 70s 80s 90s. We didn’t just get them. I was in one of those groups in the 50’s and ’60s.
Bases, there are many FEWER worldwide US military bases today than there were 40 years ago. That’s easy numbers to find. And the big crime. Halliburton and Kellogg, Brown & Root are making a profit. Lyndon Johnson made George Brown(the Brown in Brown and Root) rich back in the 60s with contracts in vietnam. Brown also made Lyndon Johnson rich also as a reward. Dick Cheney didn’t invent Halliburton, they just hired him. Every company has a CEO, they just happened to select a good one. You must be rather young to think all this stuff just got invented. You ever think maybe those countries want the US forces there to make money off them and to be there to save their ass when they need it. You need to grow up and learn a little about life. You are terrible naive and gullible, you believe all that left wing crap that they throw at you. Grow up.
Read this in Wikipedia: Talking about world court
“The number of decisions made by the ICJ has been relatively small, but there has clearly been an increased willingness to use the Court since the 1980s, especially among developing countries, although the USA withdrew from compulsory jurisdiction in 1986, meaning it accepts the court’s jurisdiction on only a case-to-case basis.”
I interpret this to mean that the US has to agree to it’s jurisdiction in this case for them to have a trial involving Rumsfeld. Otherwise no can do.
Yep thats it Enforcement….the U.S. can opt out but if that individual travels to a country that is a member of the world court they can be arrested by that countries police and turned over to the Hague for prosecution.
Sounds like we need to countersue for real torture, like sawing off heads, put them on the defensive.
http://www.amazon.com/American-Empire-Realities-Consequences-Diplomacy/dp/0674009401
For Enforcement of Confusion and Error:
Here’s a Conservative Republican Historian who is getting more publicity in the past year than Chalmers Johnson in dissecting & opposing the American, yes..Empire.
And your attempts to distract by inferring I believe the problem of
Empire is of recent vintage are futile,as I have taken issue with American interventionism for the past few generations.
There might have been some minor dismantling at the end of the Cold War but everyone realizes eg the American neocons and
sympathizers have been just as active in attempting to encircle
Russia through Empire-and Putin has noted it and is on the offense against this unwise policy. Nor has the end of the Cold War
put a dent in the expenditures for the Empire.
And profiteering at the expense of the interests of the
broad American public cannot be justified by the good old
capitalist apologia-excessive capitalism is just as destructive
as excessive socialism.
http://www.amazon.com/American-Empire-Realities-Consequences-Diplomacy/dp/0674009401
here’s a Conservative Republican historian against the Empire,FE.
and extreme capitalist profiteering, you should be instructed, is as
undesirable as extreme socialism.
Ken,
Remember when I said AQ would cheer the Democrats? They did and you were wrong. I suggest you get used to being wrong, because AQ doesn’t care a hoot about the links you dig up. They are out to attack.
A poster named Kathie said that the Kosovars have declared their language to be turkish.
I never heard this.
They speak Albanian. The Kosovar Albanians are typically fair-skinned, light-eyed Europeans.
They were converted to Islam by the Turks. Before that they were Christians. They are not descended from Turks. Their ancestors converted to escape big taxes and other penalties from the turks.
But they identify as Albanians and I never heard they want to speak Turkish. They are very big into being Albanian, I always read.
Some Kosovars are still Christians.
I did read some Kosovars speak Turkish, but it is not many.
Some bad things that are said about these Kosovars are really Serbian propaganda.
The Serbs were actually pretty tight with Saddam.
The Muslims, except for Turkey, didn’t stick up much for the Kosovars.
Thatr’s what I read.
The Israelis were even helping the Kosovars after they were being killed by the Serbs.
And the Albanians in the country of Albania–which is mostly Muslim–has been helping the CIA, I read. I think the NYT ratted them out about that.
I am not saying there aren’t some bad people in Kosovo, but some bad things said about them are Serb propaganda to isolate them.
Most Albanians are more into being Albanian than being Islamic fanatics. In the past, they revolved against the Turks.
“Urgently seeking interrogators, debriefers and Arabic linguists” to aid the Defense Intelligence Agency in Baghdad. “Candidates must be clearable to SECRET.”
Why and how did a company that specializes in information technology get the authority to hire civilian interrogators? Who gave them this task and why?
CACI’s Mission Statement
CACI’s mission is to be the world leader in information technology and networld solutions.
CACI International Inc provides the IT and network solutions needed to prevail in today’s new era of defense, intelligence and e-government.
The New Yorker
May 10, 2004
“A fifty-three-page report, obtained by The New Yorker, written by Major General Antonio M. Taguba and not meant for public release, was completed in late February.”
“Contrary to the findings of MG Ryder’s report, I find that personnel assigned to the 372nd MP Company, 800th MP Brigade were directed to change facility procedures to ’set the conditions’ for MI interrogations.” Army intelligence officers, C.I.A. agents, and private contractors “actively requested that MP guards set physical and mental conditions for favorable interrogation of witnesses.”
“Another witness, Sergeant Javal Davis, who is also one of the accused, told C.I.D. investigators, “I witnessed prisoners in the MI hold section . . . being made to do various things that I would question morally. . . . We were told that they had different rules.” Taguba wrote, “Davis also stated that he had heard MI insinuate to the guards to abuse the inmates. When asked what MI said he stated: ‘Loosen this guy up for us.’ ‘Make sure he has a bad night.’ ‘Make sure he gets the treatment.’ ” Military intelligence made these comments to Graner and Frederick, Davis said. “The MI staffs to my understanding have been giving Graner compliments . . . statements like, ‘Good job, they’re breaking down real fast. They answer every question. They’re giving out good information.’ ”
General Taguba saved his harshest words for the military-intelligence officers and private contractors. He recommended that Colonel Thomas Pappas, the commander of one of the M.I. brigades, be reprimanded and receive non-judicial punishment, and that Lieutenant Colonel Steven Jordan, the former director of the Joint Interrogation and Debriefing Center, be relieved of duty and reprimanded. He further urged that a civilian contractor, Steven Stephanowicz, of CACI International, be fired from his Army job, reprimanded, and denied his security clearances for lying to the investigating team and allowing or ordering military policemen “who were not trained in interrogation techniques to facilitate interrogations by ’setting conditions’ which were neither authorized” nor in accordance with Army regulations. “He clearly knew his instructions equated to physical abuse,” Taguba wrote. He also recommended disciplinary action against a second CACI employee, John Israel. (A spokeswoman for CACI said that the company had “received no formal communication” from the Army about the matter.)
SBD
Snapple, I think you are partially right and partially wrong on Kosovo.
Originally Kosovars were Albanian, and still claim to be primarily. The serbs tried to take them over, then the Turks did take them over and at that time many Turks moved in. Turkish was made their official language. Then Serbs got the upper hand again and moved most Turks out while they moved in. So there certainly has been much intermarriage between Turks, Serbs and Kosovars. So genetically the Kosovars can be a combination of all three(and some others) Even tho they were originally of Albanian descent, they don’t really claim to be Albanian. They desperately want their independence from Serbia and will most likely get it. As you said they were originally christian but became now mostly muslim even tho they don’t seem to be fanatic about it.
I don’t know what their official language is, Kathie said she heard Turkish. Well many speak Turkish because of heritage, many speak Serb and many speak English. Some of the Kosovars want to be muslim and some christian. And we think America is a melting pot.
Dear Enforcement,
Thanks for your comment. There is a lot of propaganda on both the Serb and Kosovar sides; but in our times, the Serbs murdered 1000s of Albanians whose roots in the area go back to ancient times.
Yugoslavia is where the Catholics, Orthodox, and Muslims all bump into each other like a geological fault-line. And troublemakers try to make them fight about who got there first.
I feel the only solution are governments that will respect all the groups but don’t let them persecute their neighbors. There are Muslims and “Christians” who can’t get with the program on this.
There is a history of ethnic cleansing on both sides.
I read that the Kosovars were in the mountains and the Turks didn’t mess with them too much, except to make them convert. You can even read that Al Qaeda wants to recruit these people because of their blone hair and blue eyes.
They are more identified with their nationality than their Muslim religion; according to the CIA factbook Kosovars mostly speak Albanian.
Albanians revolted against Turkish rule, I think. Kosovars aren’t into all that Umma/Islamic superstate stuff, I don’t think.
There is a Turkish minority.
In the country of Albania (not the province of the former Yugoslavia, Kosovo) the CIA reportedly had some secret interrogation prisons, so I doubt that Albania is in the Islamist camp. Albania has been thanked for being a partner in the WOT.
I think it is real important to distinguish different kinds of Muslims.
If we trash them all, we will never prevail. Christianity has had its times when it spread by the sword, too.
I myself am a religious person, but sometimes religion gets coopted by bad people and becomes very dangerous.
That’s why I support secular, but not anti-religious, government.
Snapple, I pretty well agree with practically all you said there.
There seems to be a good bit of misunderstanding about Kosovo. I’ve read quite a bit about the history of Kosovo because my nephew recentely married a Kosovar. She is blond. She also speaks Kosovar and English, not Turk. She says they aren’t really religious fanatics there. While many say they are muslims, it’s kinda like here in US where we say we are some religion, but it’s not really a defining identity. There are many Kosovars that tend to be friendly toward US, because US helped out there, but they are very leery of all outsiders. For good reason, it seems everyone just wants to own them.
They really don’t like the Serbs and Turks. From my understanding I don’t think Al Quaeda can count on them being in their camp either. What I think they really want is freedom. By the way, I have been to Yugoslavia but not Kosovo.
I agree with your observations. I think some of the “trash talk” about Kosovars is coming from the Serbs and is not always reliable.
But I also think that the Serbs who want to stay in their homes in Kosovo should not be run out.
Some of these people were involved in attacks on Muslim Kosovars, but not all of them.
My spouse spent time in Macedonia. They talk about their Albanians really badly.
We should not get into their stupid historical fights about what happened hundreds of years ago. That is just a dead end.
People who dredge up these historical grievances are trying to start trouble.
In the US, people like Ward Churchill try to foment ethnic and religious hatred.
The American Indian movement (Aim is not just Indians, who serve in our armed forces in very high numbers, but white communists) was even getting money from the Baath Party, according to Churchill’s own Colorado AIM, which had a falling out with the National AIM.
http://legendofpineridge.blogspot.com/2006/09/surprise-wardo-is-for-sale-not-that.html
Al Qaeda will try to forment divisions in our country between political parties, races, and religions.
They want us to fight each other–not them.
The head of the British MI5 made a good point that we should not equate fundamentalism with terrorism.
There are many religious fundamentalists who are just religious people; they aren’t involved with terrorism.
They have beliefs we find strange and backward, but if they aren’t forcing their views with violence, we need to be careful not to drive them into the enemy camp by prejudice.
Calling Muslims bad names is not very smart.
Strata
I never said al Qaeda wasn’t going to praise the Democrats if they won.
I said al Qaeda has no chance of threatening America as a nation, only America’s unnecessary presence in the Moslem world. They have no army, navy or air force. Moslems are not enthusiastic about a pan-Islamic caliphate which would trump national autonomy but they like
any militants who seek to expunge the Moslem world from US
intervention.
Only hubristic imperialists like you see the need for this
intervention to begin with. All too typically, you combine an
advocacy of aggressively intrusive policy abroad with passivity
at home where the real threat lies from the Latino invasion.
You have found the worst of both worlds and have mired yourself in
it.