Nov 10 2006
Liberals Unleashed
As I posted yesterday Germany did decide to charge Bush administration officials with war crimes.
A lawsuit in Germany will seek a criminal prosecution of the former Defense Secretary and other U.S. officials for their alleged role in abuses at Abu Ghraib and Gitmo.
…
The plaintiffs in the case include 11 Iraqis who were prisoners at Abu Ghraib, as well as Mohammad al-Qahtani, a Saudi held at Guantanamo, whom the U.S. has identified as the so-called “20th hijacker” and a would-be participant in the 9/11 hijackings. As TIME first reported in June 2005, Qahtani underwent a “special interrogation plan,” personally approved by Rumsfeld, which the U.S. says produced valuable intelligence. But to obtain it, according to the log of his interrogation and government reports, Qahtani was subjected to forced nudity, sexual humiliation, religious humiliation, prolonged stress positions, sleep deprivation and other controversial interrogation techniques.
So the guy was stripped down and told to squat for a while. Did it save lives? Yes it did! So who wants to die so an terrorist doesn’t have to face humiliation. Remember what we all wrote about the Geneva Conventions. The way they are written means we could be limited to “please’ and ‘pretty please’, so as to not offend these vicious killers we capture.
And not to be done by their EU counterparts, the Democrats feel safe to test the waters by investigating (and therefore further exposing) the NSA’s Terrorist Surveillance Program. The Dems are addicted to the subpoena.
It should be clear to everyone that an administration that allows war crimes is one that could face impeachment for high crimes. Will the Dems do anything to protect our President (he is OUR President whether you voted or him or not)?
Al Qaeda is cheered by the news the Dems are coming to surrender to them, the Europeans are ready to charge us with war crimes against the people targetting them for annihilation, and the Dems want to expose the terrorist defenses we have in place to stop attack. The voters did not give the Democrats this kind of mandate. Now they have to say something about what they plan to do – the run a third of the government now.
kathie, the Kosovars used to speak only Turkish, so that’s normal for them. They are of Turkish&Albanian descent.
We should shutdown all US military ops in Germany. That would shut down about half their economy.
Ken, the terrorists say they are making progress faster than they thought (interpret as ‘we never expected the dems to win’
And we won’t quit til we blow up the white house.
So much for your ‘they only want us out, they don’t want to come over here’ theory. But you’ve never been right before anyhow.
kariq,”Do we actually have some sort of treaty that makes it legally plausible that Germany can just prosecute people in THIS country?”
No. nothing they do is binding on US citizens.
I find Ken to be annoying Ha, Ken even finds Ken annoying.
Ken, as usual, you run in, spout trash, somebody asks you something and you don’t have an answer. Duh, Typical French Guy.
We save their ass, they hate us.
Hey, the Dems will probably go over and testify also. Only thing is, the trial will never take place. Pres Bush won’t allow it. It wouldn’t be legally binding anyhow on US citizens. We are not signatories to the World Court.
We should countersue the terrorists for sawing off heads, we could I guess but that’s not torture. Wearing womens’ underwear is really torture tho.
The lawsuit has not been filed. It first has to be recognized by the German gov. They tried something similar last year and it was dismissed. Merkle won’t allow it. It’s the MSM trying to get the ball rolling so Waxman can start his inquisition. He’ll look like Mr.Mcgoo going after the American interests. Public opinion will go against them just like it went against congress during Clinton’s impeachment.
Did you ask me something, FE?
Macker’s chronology implies we should befriend (or oppose)no one anymore in Europe, a comment which I find very piquant, even if I say so myself, and will even embelliesh it by also saying his chronology shows we should never have fought in Europe in either “world” war, which we kind of put the “world” in.
The “White House” threat in context was a transparent goad,
saying you better leave Iraq or we will come get you there.
Just as Germany was no threat to conquer America had we
firmed our defences and stayed out of Europe, the jihad is
no threat to conquer us here…you can come out of the closet now.
Ken, some of your sayings.
You’re still short a few letters of lettered.
The “neocons†were not conservative in 1960,they were liberals
ant Trotsky admirers…but strongly “right†when it came to
issues involving Israel.
And my reply is:
reading comprehension 2 (1 was yesterday) By definition: in the early ’60s liberals that became conservatives. new conservatives. That was in the early ’60s. So I ask again, a ’62 Chevy is not still neo is it? Anyone that joined the conservatives later were not covered in the definition of neocon. If you don’t get that, maybe you need ‘understanding comprehension 1.
Bush represents America in history’s eyes and ultimately the
“people†must take responsibility for his misdeeds. And
America’s reputation as a “freedom-dispenser†in the
world has seen its last run in the world’s eyes.
So why have you been blaming Pres Bush for everything and not the American people. So since I ask the question, you change your definition. Be consistent.
America has an empire of bases, the modern version of empire.
And would you cut and paste that definition from a dictionary somewhere. Or did you just pull it out your butt?
Oh and Ken, I can’t let this one go by without comment, you said:
“America’s reputation as a “freedom-dispenser†in the
world has seen its last run in the world’s eyes.”
You want to bet who will be called when the next tsunami hits?
You want to bet who will be called when the next country is invaded by someone else, ie, Kuwait in 1990
You want to bet who will be called when a major terrorist stike occurs.
You want to bet who will be called when the next country ‘loses’ it’s freedom.
It won’t be France or Germany.
Ken,
Wrong conclusions.
There are governments we can trust and others we must be wary of.
Just as part of the casus belli for the Iraq Operation was humanitarian, freeing Europe and protecting Britain were central to our entering WWII. And Germany must answer to history for allowing its partner, Turkey, to commit genocide against the Armenians.
This President had the courage to stanf for humanity.
Ken, I pasted this from above you name up there, but you didn’t really say it did you? If you did, I haven’t been giving you enough credit. You are much more ignorant than I thought.
“it by also saying his chronology shows we should never have fought in Europe in either “world†war, which we kind of put the “world†in.”
Germany declared war on the USA, not the other way around.
The “White House†threat in context was a transparent goad,
saying you better leave Iraq or we will come get you there.
Just as Germany was no threat to conquer America had we
firmed our defences and stayed out of Europe,
Surrrrreeeeeee it was.
Clarification:
The Germany/Turkey/Armenia humanitarian crimes were WWI. Germany did its own version in WWII.
And The Baathists did their version recently.
FE is correct. The planet wouldn’t have been safe for anyone, had Germany controlled all of Europe including Great Britain, and its partner, Japan, controlled all of Asia.
Such illusionary paradigms of history the “indispensable”
American lives by. Far along in the processs of displacement.
A trifle first….if For Enforcement wishes to tell Richard Perle he can’t call himself a neoconservative, fine. Let’s settle for
“dual loyalist.”
As far as apportioning blame I fulfill my duty when I present
the case against Bush policy to the best of my ability to the optimium
amount of Americans. I lamented to many as early as 2004
the unwinnable war could only be curtailed by mass street
demonstrations and the Vietnam-era like. It goes without
saying an aspect of “the people get the government they deserve”
is true, which in no way absolves the ruling elite from their
misdeeds.
The phrase “empire of bases” can be googled easily. You will
find many commentators and Historians use it freely to apply to
the American Empire.much to your chagrin.
And FE, tsunami aid has nothing to do with “freedom-dispensing.”
Nor did England call us when a major terrorist attack occured
in London.
And America will lose the Southwest before France loses its
“freedom.” But if you fear al Qaeda attacking the White House
better get to work on that by calling for the egress of US troops
from Iraq-might do good in this respect to transfer a goodly
part to the Rio Grande.
Ken, thanks to you the Israeli’s accepted my proposal on naming nuke warhead number 1……It is now officially ‘Chutzpah’! You rock Ken!
Ken
“.if For Enforcement wishes to tell Richard Perle he can’t call himself a neoconservative, fine. Let’s settle for
“dual loyalist.â€
You could call yourself intelligent, but that wouldn’t mean you are.
Richard Perle could call himself an African American Pakistani, but that wouldn’t mean he is one.
You could call yourself a WWII vet, but I don’t think you are. Get my drift?
and then: “The phrase “empire of bases†can be googled easily. You will
find many commentators and Historians use it freely to apply to
the American Empire.much to your chagrin.”
I could just cut and paste what I just said but don’t let your ignorance interfere with the truth. Calling America an empire Don’t make it one. And that’s your chagrin, You’ve been listening to Noam too much. Just because many commentators and Historians are ignorant doesn’t mean you…. well, …. maybe it does.
Nor did England call us when a major terrorist attack occured
in London. That was a Major attack? Hmmm. repeat above.
I don’t fear the WhiteHouse being attacked.
Ken, you better go have a helping of tacks, you ain’t too sharp tonight.
Ken, I just don’t know about you, as justification for “empire of bases” you say to google it. Okay, looks like Chalmers Johnson coined the phrase. Well, just what the hell would you expect of a communist Berkeley professor? Geez, at least use a reputable writer for your references.
Ken, just to show you a little to dissolution you about your hero Chalmers, reading down his article he talks about the huge buildup of bases around the world and who is profiting.
He says we are building 13 Super Aircraft Carrier Groups. Baloney, we’ve had 13 carrier groups since the ’50’s thru the 60s 70s 80s 90s. We didn’t just get them. I was in one of those groups in the 50’s and ’60s.
Bases, there are many FEWER worldwide US military bases today than there were 40 years ago. That’s easy numbers to find. And the big crime. Halliburton and Kellogg, Brown & Root are making a profit. Lyndon Johnson made George Brown(the Brown in Brown and Root) rich back in the 60s with contracts in vietnam. Brown also made Lyndon Johnson rich also as a reward. Dick Cheney didn’t invent Halliburton, they just hired him. Every company has a CEO, they just happened to select a good one. You must be rather young to think all this stuff just got invented. You ever think maybe those countries want the US forces there to make money off them and to be there to save their ass when they need it. You need to grow up and learn a little about life. You are terrible naive and gullible, you believe all that left wing crap that they throw at you. Grow up.
Read this in Wikipedia: Talking about world court
“The number of decisions made by the ICJ has been relatively small, but there has clearly been an increased willingness to use the Court since the 1980s, especially among developing countries, although the USA withdrew from compulsory jurisdiction in 1986, meaning it accepts the court’s jurisdiction on only a case-to-case basis.”
I interpret this to mean that the US has to agree to it’s jurisdiction in this case for them to have a trial involving Rumsfeld. Otherwise no can do.
Yep thats it Enforcement….the U.S. can opt out but if that individual travels to a country that is a member of the world court they can be arrested by that countries police and turned over to the Hague for prosecution.
Sounds like we need to countersue for real torture, like sawing off heads, put them on the defensive.
http://www.amazon.com/American-Empire-Realities-Consequences-Diplomacy/dp/0674009401
For Enforcement of Confusion and Error:
Here’s a Conservative Republican Historian who is getting more publicity in the past year than Chalmers Johnson in dissecting & opposing the American, yes..Empire.
And your attempts to distract by inferring I believe the problem of
Empire is of recent vintage are futile,as I have taken issue with American interventionism for the past few generations.
There might have been some minor dismantling at the end of the Cold War but everyone realizes eg the American neocons and
sympathizers have been just as active in attempting to encircle
Russia through Empire-and Putin has noted it and is on the offense against this unwise policy. Nor has the end of the Cold War
put a dent in the expenditures for the Empire.
And profiteering at the expense of the interests of the
broad American public cannot be justified by the good old
capitalist apologia-excessive capitalism is just as destructive
as excessive socialism.
http://www.amazon.com/American-Empire-Realities-Consequences-Diplomacy/dp/0674009401
here’s a Conservative Republican historian against the Empire,FE.
and extreme capitalist profiteering, you should be instructed, is as
undesirable as extreme socialism.
Ken,
Remember when I said AQ would cheer the Democrats? They did and you were wrong. I suggest you get used to being wrong, because AQ doesn’t care a hoot about the links you dig up. They are out to attack.