Nov 13 2006

Democrats Act To Surrender Quickly To Al Qaeda

Published by at 10:45 am under All General Discussions,Bin Laden/GWOT

Update: Iran Says Israel’s destruction near. We need to hear from the Dem Congressional Leaders on this threat to our ally. And we need to hear now, before Iran assumes the Democrats really want Israel wiped off the map. And why would they get that idea? Clarice Feldman explains how.

New Links Added

OK, I must be living on a different planet because I never thought the Democrats would be so stupid as to go out and do all those terrible things people predicted they would do – but the are. The first terrible move is to call for troop reductions in Iraq. Troop reductions have been big losers in Senate votes, the latest just this past June. And there has been no public support [new] for a surrender to Al Qaeda in Iraq [new]. None. So why the dems are pushing this subject now is an interesting issue.

This is bad on so many fronts for the Dems it is hard to fathom if any logic is being applied at all. First off you have the Lieberman factor. He owes the Democrats absolutely nothing and his top priority is success in Iraq. Now we hear that Lieberman is flexing his new power (as the 2nd most powerful person in the country right now):

Sen. Joe Lieberman on Sunday repeated his pledge to caucus with Senate Democrats when the 110th Congress convenes in January, but refused to slam the door on possibly moving to the Republican side of the aisle.

Asked on NBC’s “Meet the Press” if he might follow the example of Sen. Jim Jeffords of Vermont, who left the Republicans in 2001 and became an independent, ending Republican control of the U.S. Senate, Lieberman refused to discount the possibility.

“I’m not ruling it out but I hope I don’t get to that point,” he said. “And I must say — and with all respect to the Republicans who supported me in Connecticut — nobody ever said, ‘We’re doing this because we want you to switch over. We want you to do what you think is right and good for our state and country,’ and I appreciate that.”

It seems the battle inside the Democrat party is just beginning. The old dog liberal democrats are trying to grab power. But in their effort to grab it, it may just slip away. Who knows, but I think they are over reaching. I have not seen any polls [see first ‘new’ link above for poll data], but the country is watching to see if the Dems defy or embrace all the negative predictions that the conservatives put out on what the Dems would do if elected. Stunningly, they seem to be embracing the worst of the predictions.

Surrendering to Al Qaeda in Iraq is probably the worse move. We still have our soldiers there, in country, trying to help Iraq stay afloat. These signals are just the worse thing to be sending to all sides in that conflict. While Democrats see Vietnam, the rest of the country still sees 9-11 heros. I doubt this will play well. Recall that Iraq was the fourth most important issue ini exit polls, so a rapid surrender is not higher on the people’s list than terrorism, the economy – and corruption.

And the House dems seem to be going full throttle into the corruption tank by looking to experienced, corrupt pols to be leaders. Now that is ambition. Don Surber did an excellent overview of the scandal riddent Dems riding into town to claim their share. $100K in illicit money is not enough to get in the way of Democrat morals. But that is only part of the issue. The new blood of moderate Dems coming into the Congress seem to have either shaken the liberal leaders to the core, or they are still too taken by Bush Derangement Syndrome to comprehend what they are doing. By example, Jane Harman is one tough, seasoned moderate who cares about this country and its security – and she just got the liberal royal shaft by those liberal morals we now see on display. It is not about what is best for the country. It seems all of Grandma Pelosi’s actions are about personal revenge. Pathetic.

Actually, what is truly pathetic is the Democrats still think they can put lipstick on their pig-headed plans to surrender to Al Qaeda. They think Americans are going to embrace the democrats near panic to retreat because they have some ex-marine to play cover for their surrender plans:

But in her first real decision as the incoming speaker, Pelosi said she was swayed by Murtha’s early stance for a withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq. Her letter of endorsement yesterday made clear that she sees Iraq as the central issue of the next Congress and that she believes a decorated Marine combat veteran at the helm of the House caucus would provide Democrats ammunition in their fight against congressional Republicans and President Bush on the issue.

“I salute your courageous leadership that changed the national debate and helped make Iraq the central issue of this historic election. It was surely a dark day for the Bush Administration when you spoke truth to power,” she wrote. “Your strong voice for national security, the war on terror and Iraq provides genuine leadership for our party, and I count on you to lead on these vital issues.”

Yep, they are speaking to power (Al Qaeda) and saying ‘you win’. That’s a democrat’s definition of courage – to bravely slink away and then have a parade marking the successful retreat.

The Dems are in serious trouble here. They are playing a classic Neville Chamberlain to Bin Laden’s version of Hitler. Except that in this modern day, we have the record of Chamberlain’s mistakes to compare against. And we have the responses of Al Qaeda to the news the Democrats are riding to the rescue – ready to retreat and give the field of battle to our enemies. Last century the people of Britain and Europe did not have the insight we have today, but that will not ensure we do not repeat history. It may only allow us to see this disaster pan out in real time. These acts of appeasement will not satiate our enemies’ lust for land and power.

As I noted before, the terrorists are planning now to go on the offensive. They need to build momentum in the Muslim world to enhance their image as the ones who brought down the Great Satan. They need to grab as much of their Caliphate as possible before the West realizes the mistake we just made. This is from the terrorists’ viewpoint, so don’t expect the Dems to have a clue on this. If they did, we wouldn’t be seeing these early, unforced errors by the Dems. Al Qaeda has mobilized 12,000 fighters and redeployed them. We see them coming back into Saudi Arabia and Egypt and Jordan from Afgahnistan – and possibly Iraq. So what is the possible plan?

First, Al Qaeda needs to sow the seeds of doubt in Europe and Australia (and possibly Canada). They need to attack there so the people in those countries pull a Spain like America just did (elect the Surrenderers-in-Chief). Second, the democracies or pro-West nations in the ME need to be toppled or, at least, distracted. That means Lebanon is a target [new] for toppling the still weak government [new] there. This would allow Syria, Iran and Hamas Hizbollah to begin round two of their campaign on Israel from Southern Lebanon. The other big target now is Pakistan. The fastest path to the Islamo-fascist’s nuclear bomb is taking over Pakistan [new]. That is the number one strategic goal, while eliminating Israel is more a political goal.

Sadly, it will be a Democrat Congress that brings civil war to Iraq – and Turkey. The one force out there still very pro-West and still very potent are the Kurds. They will be target number one – but I am not sure how this will play out. The Kurds are fierce fighters and will not abide the coming tide. But every time they consolidate some power Turkey gets the jitters. Turkey might be able to finally fulfill its NATO role as the defender of Europe’s southern flank. They could ally with the Kurds and hold northern Iraq and do some serious damage in northern Iran (the other Kurdish region). Or they could fold to the Islamo-fascist forces that are roiling Turkey. That is another battlefield that could open up on us.

The Democrats, in the myopic fit, are releasing the pressure we have been applying to the region so that things would not begin spiralling out of control. But just like Chamberlain actually freed up Hitler to start is putsch on Europe, so will the Democrats. This is a different kind of war from WW II, so signals are sent in a different way. But they are there. AQ knows they have a small window to act in to gain as much ground as possible. The question is do they think that window is open now or not. It is hard to tell. If the Dems keep doing their Chamberlain-role my guess is the terrorists will accelerate their efforts. America has always been the big problem. Our military is so strong and can project anywhere that the terrorists know only political will can stay our hand. But a wave of attacks followed by inept statements by Dems could backfire on the terrorists. My fear is the terrorists are as myopic as the Dems seem to be and will go full throttle to bring on the pending war. As has been said, more attacks were inevitable. But many of us hoped they would be last ditch efforts of a dying movement. The Democrats have lit the fires of hope again in our enemies, and the next attacks will now be an offensive effort.

32 responses so far

32 Responses to “Democrats Act To Surrender Quickly To Al Qaeda”

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  1. For Enforcement says:
    November 13, 2006 at 3:20 pm

    Good info, I spent several years in a Carrier Battle Group in the 50s and 60s and believe me, we knew when a sub was near. We ALWAYS knew and that was 40 years ago. Anyone think with todays electronics and a noisy sub, that Carrier group didn’t know where they were. Ha.

  2. Retired Spook says:
    November 13, 2006 at 3:31 pm

    FE, perhaps I spoke too soon. I just heard back from my Navy Intel buddy regarding this matter. What follows is the full text of his e-mail:

    I did two tours on the KH. One as a LT from ‘78-’80 and again as the Ship’s Intelligence Officer from ‘89-’91. The Song’s are engineered Chinese subs with a lot of that engineering back engineered from the Russian Kilo’s the Russians sold to China some time ago. The last three of the five subs were the “new and improved” Kilo’s. That means they had the new quieting the Russians intergraded into their subs beginning in the mid-80’s and reaching their fleets in the late ‘80s.

    If you recall, Toshiba sold the triple-axis milling machines to Russia in the early ‘80 and a Norwegian firm sold them the software to run those milling machines. These machines were for the specific purpose of milling the screws for Russian (then Soviet) subs and the late model Kilo are included in this group. Russia could not develop and build milling machines that were accurate enough to do the job. Once found out, Toshiba was banned from importing anything to the U.S. for two years (under great objections from the Japanese) and the Norwegian company was driven out of business by their government. To this day I will not knowingly buy a Toshiba product. The milling machines allow the Russians to build subs with screws that will not cavitate at flank speed. IOW, these subs can run wide open and not make very much noise. …and given the fact that diesel subs are quiet to begin with, well, they are a much harder to find than a nuc sub.

    Prior to the energy crisis of ‘73 all Navy ships traveled all the time at 25 knots. The cost of fuel went from 19 cents/gallon to $1.19 in one day. Very big impact to the Navy. The Kitty Hawk uses about 175,000-200,000 gallons of fuel per day when in transit. So now all transit speeds are limited to 15 knots to save fuel, unless there is an emergency and the Dept of Navy gives the okay. In any event the ships are limited to the speed of their slowest unit, usually the oiler, but still it’s 15 knots. Of course this doesn’t apply to a nuc carrier and the Kitty Hawk and the Kennedy are the only two conventional carriers in the U.S. Navy at the moment. All the others are nuc. Now, all that said, once a ship operates in a given area, she will just drill around in the water over a several hundred mile area, turning into the wind to get enough wind over the deck to launch A/C (always 20 knots over the deck). So it could be pretty easy to find and target a ship that was not “going somewhere.”

    My guess is the ship did not have a reason to actively be looking for a sub of any country. Alert status of the ASW department goes way up if there is a known or perceived or possible threat from a sub and assets are focused in that direction. In short, I doubt if there was a reason to be intently looking in a direction of a possible threat (bet they are now, however). There also remains the possibility that the Chinese sub just happened to be on routine patrol, not really looking for the U.S. Carrier. Still on the other hand, it is a great training opportunity for the sub’s Capt. and crew to “sneak” up on a carrier. I do believe the press is making a much bigger deal of this than is necessary since we are not at war with China and in the big picture of things – at the moment – relations are okay, and we did not have reason to believe a Chinese sub would be stalking us. It does, however, show how much of a target a carrier can be. The Russians said that if they have to sink a carrier it means nuclear war. Carriers are big and don’t sink very easily. In fact, no large deck carrier has ever been sunk by bombs, only torpedoes – and lots of them. The St Louis in WWII was sunk in the Philippines but it was an escort carrier not a “big-deck.” To sink one you need lots and lots of torpedoes – or a nuc torpedo.

    You can bet the KH’s Capt and the ADM are doing a rug dance right now over the wire back to HQ of the Navy. The main reason being the press is asking questions. And if the press is asking questions, then our elected officials are also asking questions. Lots of message traffic going back and forth for sure.

    All that said, do not underestimate the difficulty in finding a diesel sub. They are very hard to find, particularly when steaming slowly and with a new, and modern screw. As you know, their endurance is limited when submerged, 24-36 hours max and a lot less when trying to run higher than 8-12 knots.

    Not sure exactly what to make of the apparent contradiction in his last paragraph, but he obviously does speak from experience with respect to the Kitty Hawk.

    BTW, AJ, thanks for letting Enforcement and me use your bandwidth for a TOTALLY OT subject.

  3. AJStrata says:
    November 13, 2006 at 4:10 pm

    Retired Spool,

    I have been rivetted to the discussion. BTW, your friend was referring to the fuel limitations on the Deisel sub, and I assume other conditions which makes long duration, full up travel problematic. Subs are limited by fuel first, so in a diesel sub that makes a difference (as opposed to our nukes).

    I’ll add in one more plausible scenarion to the mix. If the KH was patrolling a zone and heading into the winds, then a sub could simply sit in the zone waiting for the carrier group to come to it. I would not be surprised if the sub determined a likely spot and just let the group drive right over it.

    AJStrata

  4. lurker9876 says:
    November 13, 2006 at 4:25 pm

    I think victory in Iraq and ME is possible and we should find ways to reach this goal.

    How many thought all was lost with the Battle of the Bulge?

  5. Retired Spook says:
    November 13, 2006 at 5:07 pm

    I’ll add in one more plausible scenarion to the mix. If the KH was patrolling a zone and heading into the winds, then a sub could simply sit in the zone waiting for the carrier group to come to it.

    AJ, that’s basically what my friend said:

    Now, all that said, once a ship operates in a given area, she will just drill around in the water over a several hundred mile area, turning into the wind to get enough wind over the deck to launch A/C (always 20 knots over the deck). So it could be pretty easy to find and target a ship that was not “going somewhere.”

    I always thought the reason diesel subs had such limited submerged endurance was that they run submerged on batteries and had to surface frequently to recharge said batteries. In all the years I was in the Navy, the only sub I was ever on was a nuke that I got a tour of at Charleston when I went on active duty in 1968.

  6. The Macker says:
    November 13, 2006 at 6:14 pm

    AJ,
    Here is link to the 2006 Asia Foundation survey of the Afghan people.
    77% are satisfied with the way democracy works there. The people trust their army and police. Other opinion splits are like differences everywhere.

    http://www.asiafoundation.org/pdf/AG-survey06.pdf

  7. For Enforcement says:
    November 13, 2006 at 6:38 pm

    Retired Spook, yea I was on the Forrestal for years (I was in Operations Intelligence) and we always traveled 18-20 knots except when in Air Ops, about 20-25 and the course into the wind alway put the wind 10 degrees off the port bow at 28 knots. If it was dead calm that meant the ship had to run 28 knots.

    I’m sure he is right about the diesel subs, they were quite noisy (prop) wise in the 50-60s, so I’m sure they needed to quieten them down. But running on batteries while submerged would be very quiet. My belief tho is that the sub was in the area and the KH came upon them. But the funny statement to me was that they were ‘undetected’ but they must have ‘detected’ them somehow.

    Your friend was very correct in what he said about Air Ops tho, especially in the Med, we would stay in the same small area for hours. Look at the Persian Gulf how small it is. If a sub wanted to stalk a carrier there, they could go to the middle and park and the carrier would go past it many times during ops. That drone flying over the carrier is not a big deal at all. When I was on the Forrestal, the Soviets buzzed over us regularly. We alway knew it well ahead of time, we picked up their electronic signatures long before they got to the carrier, but it was open air space and we weren’t at war, so no big deal. We took lots of pictures of their airplanes.

  8. Ken says:
    November 13, 2006 at 7:49 pm

    http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061112/LOCAL17/611120476/-1/ZONES04

    uhhhhh, here’s the REAL poll of Afghanis, Macker, and things aren’t very bright there my friend.

  9. Flopping Aces says:
    November 13, 2006 at 11:01 pm

    Pelosi Doing Her Part To Fill That Swamp…

    A few days ago Pelosi remarked that she was going to drain the swamp of corruption out of Congress. Looks to me like she is turning the spigot on full blast to ensure the swamp is completely filled by the time 2008 comes around.

    Bookmark to:
    ……

  10. Right Truth says:
    November 14, 2006 at 8:11 am

    It’s just a matter of time…

    It’s coming. It’s just a matter of time. You know it and so do I. What? Another war for Israel, that’s what. The United Nations has kindly provided time for Hezbollah to build up their stash of rockets, missiles and…

  11. Wake up America says:
    November 14, 2006 at 1:29 pm

    Lets Get Ready to Rummmmmmbbble…

    So…. she has left her party with two options… either she gets her way in her first decision as house speaker and puts a crook in the position, OR she loses her first battle with her own party, which is more than just a possibility. Nice start huh…..

  12. Ken says:
    November 14, 2006 at 5:41 pm

    Hey, you defeated babies. Murtha has a clean record. You’re confusing him with Randy Cunningham (Republican) whom you can write in prison.

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