Nov 14 2006
Immigration Hardliners Threaten Moderates Again
The ‘Fence Only’ crowd, which helped bring about the Republican debacle, are at it again and threatening further damage to Reps if they don’t get their way. Just like Cleavon Little holding a gun to his own head in Blazing Saddles, they bring us this silliness:
Now that Democrats are in control on Capitol Hill, President Bush has expressed hopes of getting a bipartisan immigration bill. The only bipartisan bill that can get past a Democratic Congress is an amnesty bill, which can be a down payment on another Republican defeat in 2008.
If the people in the White House do not understand how outraged their supporters were at this year’s attempt to pass an amnesty bill for illegals — virtually guaranteeing that even more millions will come — then it is hard to know what message they got from the Republicans’ recent debacle at the polls.
What a bunch of BS. There are plenty of PENALTIES in the Comprehensive Immigration Bill for those who are working here illegally and who want to become sanctioned immigration workers. First there was the requirement to pay back taxes – which is not a minor penalty by a long shot. Since paying back the IRS includes interest, this is a burden very few could afford to do. Then there was the requirement to have a background check – which could lead to deportation if a criminal record was found. This would eliminate the hard core, violent criminals from the ‘white collar’ crime of improper paperwork. I was a fan of a registration fee, to offset the program costs, as well as tax on employers. So no free rides anywhere. Plus, no one involved would become an American instantaneously. Those who worked here could not apply any of that previous time towards citizenship – it was all to be nullified (another penalty).
But the “fence only crowd” are completely irrelevant, as is this threat. If they are threatening to do more damage in 2008 than they did in 2006 then count me out of the Republican party. I would rather work a comprehensive solution than listen to cries of retribution for not toeing the line. If these ‘pure cons’ want to create the Buchanan party – then fine, go ahead. The Reps in the House – who pushed this threat last cycle and alienated most of the ‘legal’ immigrants who can vote (for the obtuse, that makes these voters US citizens) – need to realize they have no power now. They are not going to be engaged in this debate in any serious manner. And temper tantrums like this are not going to fix that reality. They gambled and lost. It is over. The ‘Fence Only” crowd is out of power and just filled with empty, angry threats.
There are penalties for the illegal workers, so there is no amnesty. And if anyone is going to infer or say those of us who do not agree with these exaggerations are for law breaking, or somehow inferior in another way, I got a message: the independents select who wins elections. This cycle it wasn’t the ‘Fence Only’ crowd who were selected. The inferior ones are the ones who have no political power right now. Hint, hint, nudge, nudge….This is not “betrayal”, it is liberation.
Addendum: I want to make this point before I go into the comments and possibly get turned off to the Reps again, but here is the deal. (1) The ‘Fence Only’ crowd got their fence only passed. (2) They said comprehensive legislation had to come later. (3) It is later. (4) The ‘Fence Only’ crowd has no political power. I should not have jumped to item 4 alone without stepping through the other three points. But if the hard liners want to take their marbles home and be angry because there is INSUFFICIENT punishment for the crime of making a living – so be it. Sit home.
Agreed. One only has to look to Michael Barone to realize just how badly some of these people misled the Republican party.
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/opinion/baroneblog/archives/061110/the_basic_polit.htm
People also need to urge their RNC members to vote for Mel Martinez – a direct rebuke to those who misled the GOP.
The “absolutist” crowd should read “The Narcissistic Pursuit of Perfection.” Those who are so convinced they are correct that they can’t compromise are not only foolish, but potentially dangerous.
The truth is the people who voted in this last election support comprehensive immigration by almost two to one. That is the reality. And the gains that Bush had made with the hispanic community completely disappeared. And what did they accomplish? Bush’s numbers are down again. The Republicans lost the House and here they are making threats.
I never quite understood the hysteria over people committing the monstrous abomination of simply, um, being inside our borders without permission. Yes there’s a law against it, that’s true. There are also laws against littering, loitering, and jaywalking, but there seems to be a limit to how enraged, upset, and obsessed people will get about those things.
It was always the tone of the argument that bothered me, as if those of us who wanted more than just a wall and a stay-the-hell-out attitude were proclaiming a right to commit robbery and hooliganism.
aj,
and then there is the large crowd, such as myself, who are “fence first” advocates. we find your approach and the other “fence only” crowd equally absurd. when the debate first started the comprehensive folks gave short shift to a fence. now at least we have the possibly of 700 miles against which the other reforms can be backed up with. otherwise it’s the same old same old of the last 40 years………… build the fence, then legalize everybody with a ten year green card, a national work ID card and throw the criminals over the fence. let the free market take care of the rest.
patric:
I think the tone of the debate was one of the reasons Republicans lost the House, and I don’t think that a lot of people have gotten that yet.
Exit polling put immigration as No. 6 in priority. Basically it had no influence either way. Before most people get down to the 6th item, they have long since made up their mind. I know it had zero influence on my vote and I don’t even know my Rep’s position on immigration and I was gonna vote for him come hell or high water. He is a Repub and their was no alternative. Dems aren’t an alternative. No Senator was up in my state this year.
In any case, I have observed nothing written here by either side is going to change anyone’s mind. Whatever you’re for, that’s what you’re for.
Anyone that has had their mind changed, please say so and tell us why and what made the difference.
Terrye
Hispanic voting supporting the Repubs went down, I believe I heard from 43 to 25 per cent. but they said it was because of Iraq and terror,not immigration. That’s just what I heard. Have no idea if it’s true.
“And the gains that Bush had made with the hispanic community completely disappeared. “”
I agree it was the tone. A fence has a national security benefit for sure. With some of the neighbors we have living south of the boarder, I’m thinking Chavez, we need fewer crossing points. I think we are lucky to have people coming from South America. We need immigrants for sure, and South Americans have many common values and over time do very well here. When the commentary sounds racist it grates really badly.
http://www.amren.com/Reports/Hispanics/Hispanics.htm
“lucky”, Kathy? Read this report.
Yes, Strata, let us hope a “Buchanan” party is formed as soon as possible, and with the growing Balkanization of America, you can
bet it will be a permanent fixture on the landscape for you to
complain about, until it either pressures the GOP and Democrats to keep America European-dominant, or takes power itself.
Strict punishment for employers is as important as building a fence.
A chunk of troops now in Iraq where they can do nothing but
die and lose,would also facilitate the preservation.
The tone matters. I don’t quite know how to say this, but people do not like ideologues. They don’t like people like Sheehan and Lamont and they don’t like people like Tancredo. Not as a general rule. It makes people uncomfortable.
I live in the 8th District here in Indiana. I was one of the few people who actually voted for Hostettler {R}. He pushed the immigration thing. Now the guy who won, Ellsworth {D}, is a moderate to conservative kind of person and he is not some open border advocate. But his tone was less strident. and people responded to that.
Don’t worry about stridency, Terrye. American’s are apathetic
and lackluster in part because they have no charismatic
leadership. If and when the right man comes along, they will
be mobilized with due visceral direction!
Immigration has been the conerstone of America since before we became a nation, we do need to secure our borders but not at the expence of expelling every illegal .But we must make sure that the 10-20 million must assimilate into the american way which includes reading, writing and speaking english. If they do not then they must be deported. ( When my parents immigrated after WW II they assimilated into our culture without even a thought they learned the language, english was the only language used in our house and my father who worked so many hours has finally achvied the american dream by becoming finicially independent at the age of 77 with no formal education after grade 4)
Ken:
I don’t think you are French, I think you are out to lunch.
Ama:
My father in law said that he was 9 years old before he spoke English on a daily basis. The lived in a German neighborhood in Cincinnatti Ohio.
The last charismatic leader we had opened the doors wide to hispanic immigrants. A fence is expensive to build, monitor, and maintain. And it doesn’t solve the problem. It has become nothing more than a poltical icon. Put in a perfect fence and pay to maintain it forever. It still doesn’t address the issue of the people that are already here and only cuts down on illegal immigration by 50% or less. It doesn’t address the issue of WHY people would take such risks to get in here in the first place.
People cross that border because there are jobs here and the system for entering legally to work at those jobs is arcane. It is broken and doesn’t work. Creating a way for people to come here “above board” and work at those jobs is the way to solve the problem. They wouldn’t risk dying in the desert if they could show their valid identification, get a work permit, and be part of the economy. In the future, immigration numbers should be based on the unemployment rate. When unemployment rises, fewer permits are issued or renewed. But when unemployment rises, fewer people will come anyway because there are fewer jobs for them to take. If you are going to be jobless, it is probably better to be jobless in Mexico than the US because living is cheaper.
The compromise bill offered a way to fix the underlying issues. It was rejected out of hand because it didn’t build a fence and punish people who would be then caught on this side of it. It is narrow-minded black-white thinking like this that leads a party or a segment of a party into political oblivion. It doesn’t matter if you are “right” … if more than half the people disagree you are going to lose. Your choices are to either educate the people so they come around or shut up. Because if you can’t convince the other side, they are going to shut you up themselves by tossing you out of government.
Terrye
I feel bad for your father in law how did he manage to get through
school, or was he a immigrate
Ken,
Fear of a race or a group is a sure sign of insecurity. And now we understand what drives you – a terminal inferiority complex. Not a big surprise. No wonder you are so desparate to appaer superior.
Partrick,
Fence First = Fence Only. And that is now a dead political force. The fence came first. And whether you find our approach absurd (there’s that condenscending tone again) or not is irrelevant. Not a problem anymore for two years.
Hmmm, nobody has spoken up that they’ve changed their mind.