Nov 15 2006
Republicans Losing It
Update: Tony Blankley takes a stab at how to proceed as well. Let me say this about conservatism as I see it. It stands for the sanctity of life and the sanctity of this country. Everything else flows from there. Small government? Freedom to live your life. It is not enough to have life, we must be able to express our lives to our individual talents. That is why we strive for minimal government. Enough government to protect and help those in dire straights, but not one that dictates to us what to do. That means Embryonic Stem Cell Research is not something acceptable under broad conservative principles. It is why a guest worker program is acceptable (pay for past digressions, but make a living here as a guest). It is why we cannot fall back from Iraq – we risk bringing the terrorist storm back to our shores. It is why we honor the those who defend this country and do not smear them. All we need to agree on is the broad principles and apply them with compromise among the conservative coalition to win majorities and make progress.
But to make this happen means the hard liners need to climb down off their diases and join the coalition as equals – not superiors. Everyone who is a conservative speaks from the passion of the heart about the sanctity of life and this country. That alone does not make their proposed solutions correct or right. It simply means their heart is in the right place. If we want to organize against rampant liberalism then it can be done as equals in a common cause. Otherwise it is a bunch of useless factions.
end update
It seems the Republicans in the House have decided to push for illegal immigrants to leave the country again.
Some Republicans have expressed reluctance to return Mr. Boehner to leadership after last week’s disastrous elections, and some are opposed to Mr. Pence for forging a compromise on immigration that critics dismissed as “amnesty.” Yesterday, Mr. Pence renounced those efforts.
“All those debates about compromise are a thing of the past,” he said in an interview with talk-radio host Laura Ingraham.
“I reject any form of amnesty, even if we’ve got border security,” he said. “I really reject the idea that people whose first act in this country was a violation of the law ought to be able to get right with the law without leaving the country.”
That’s it for me. You can ‘break the law’ by speeding. There are penalties in the comprehensive proposals, they just do not include ripping people from the homes and families and jobs as punishment. It seems the Reps are trying to punish illegal immigrants for their own screw ups and losses. Typical DC vendetta talk.
Reminds me of how all those brave arm chair warriors pounced on the Dubai Ports International company because they were Arab and Muslim based – a way to punish Arabs and Muslims for 9-11. Even though the company hails from one of our staunchest allies, the United Arab Emirites (UAE). The Rep and their talk show buddies accused these people of all sorts of conspiracies and hidden agendas, when the truth was the company had agreed to pay for state-of-the-art cargo inspection gear AT ALL THEIR PORTS. The company was willing to fund our outer defenses at ports feeding materials to this country. And the Reps decided to punish them in their fit of Rambo-esque play acting.
We have a war to focus on and these people want to spend our limited security forces rounding up people and throwing them over the border. Like I said – good riddence to the Republican House. If that is what they stand for I am out.
Update: In case anyone on the far right is even still listening, here is another analysis that illustrates why doing the same bad things will bring the same bad results. All of this need to punish illegal immigrants has only punished those calling for punishment. The illegal aliens are still here, they are still in an underground economy, there are those amongst them who are violent criminals who should be deported. The hard liners are the ones who lost – who are in essense being punished. When are they going to wake up and realize the punishment is not being applied where they wanted it to be?
Round up the illegals, or incentivize them, with a BIG public works project paying decent wages — building a 2000 mile fence along the border. (embellished Dennis Miller joke)
Passions remain high, but nothing new is being said in this thread. Two points though … 1) the vast majority of those wanting a fence (preferrably first) also want comprehensive reform, but are unfairly being labeled radical or extreme… 2) immigration was not the deciding factor in the elections, although in a few cases it contributed — but not because of hardline repub stances but because nothing got done, or too little too late. Add in perceived rampant repub corruption, the Foley “scandal”, big spending, and dem opponents who went way right on immigration (thereby taking away the issue), plus the anti Bush/Iraq sentiment in many districts, and that’s why we have speaker Pelosi (gag!).
AJ,
I provided you with a link to the text of the McCain-Kennedy bill. Can you please return the favor?
Can you provide a link to the text of the proposed Bush bill?
And can you please stop calling people “hard liners” and talking about how much you will laugh at their defeat. That isn’t very helpful. And honestly, I haven’t seen an ounce of compromise out of you so I would not be so quick to use the phrase “hard liners” if I were you. To me, it looks a lot like the pot calling the kettle black. But hey, that’s just me.
But if you think that Republicans can win elections if 30% of the base stays home, then by all means continue with the divisive dialogue.
One last question, are you familiar with the history of the 14th amendment? And by history I mean the accompanying debate when the amendment was proposed followed by the SCOTUS interpretation of the 14th amendment.
It is fascinating stuff if you enjoy history. And there is a lesson to be learned there. The lesson is – if it isn’t in the text of the bill, it doesn’t mean crap.
i.e., if the fence, and appropriate funding, isn’t in the text of any proposed bill, it isn’t going to happen. They can speak for days of their intentions, but it won’t matter one hoot if it isn’t the bill when it is signed into law.
Do you know your history regarding Reagan’s amnesty? He promised to secure the border. Did he do it?
I want to see some action before I am asked to believe more hollow promises.
And yes, I am willing to let hard working, honest, law abiding illegal aliens stay here, if the penalty is significant enough to discourage further such behavior.
Apache IP
Hispanics will be glad to vote for Republicans who prevent Tyson’s Foods from exploiting them. If Tyson Foods is only paying six dollars an hour for doing grueling dangerous meat cutting jobs, they are engaged in wage slavery. If Republicans and Democrat don’t prevent a constant inflow of illegal immigrants into America, Tyson Food will not be able to replace legal immigrants with illegal immigrants who are willing to work at wage slave rates.
There is no free lunch. Someone has to pay for everything. The taxpayers have to provide minimal needs to the children of people who are working at wage slave rates for Tyson Foods. If the children of illegal Mexican immigrants graduate from high school in the United States, they are entitled to entrance into the State universities on an affirmative action basis and are entitled to financial aid based on the financial ability of their parents to pay for their cost of living at the university. If they need medical care, the children of illegal immigrants have an absolute right to quality medical care.
The traditional American immigration policy would cause Tyson Foods to be exposed to the market place of only legal immigrants and American citizens. By controlling the total supply of American citizens and legal immigrants, the Government can force Tyson to pay a salary (plus medical benefits) to its workers that would allow the workers to live in nice homes, eat wholesome food, drive nice automobiles and to pay for the cost of their children’s college education. The Catch 22 is that Tyson Foods says that they will not be able to process food and sell it inside the United States at a price that is competitive with world prices for processed food. Democrats say that wage slave rates for illegal immigrant workers is not a problem because Democrats will provide excellent Government assistance for Tyson Food’s Mexican wage slaves.
AJ Strata says that the Republicans can’t compete with the Democrats for the future votes of illegal immigrants if they don’t outbid the Democrats with a plan to give citizenship to an endless supply of illegal immigrants who are willing to work for Tyson Foods at wage slave rates. Of course, the next thing for AJ Strata to do is to call for Republicans to demand voting rights for illegal immigrants and for Republicans to outbid the Democrat Party as to the quality of Government services for wage slaves working for Tyson Foods.
Construction Companies have copied Tyson Foods and have been hiring illegal immigrant Mexican carpenters, plumbers, electricians, roofers and general laborers. The people in the construction trades who were Reagan Democrats that have been forced to compete with illegal Mexican immigrants know that there is no help available to stop the illegal immigrant competition if both the Democrat and Republican candidate are for wide-open borders. However, those Reagan Democrats can and have dropped out of political participation. Exit polls don’t identify the number of Reagan Democrats who did not go to the polls.
There is no free lunch. Either Americans will live in a labor market that will produce a living wage or they will demand that the Government provide for their quality of life that existed prior to the open borders wage slave system. The more wage slaves we have; the more Democrat voters we will have because the Democrat Party will outbid the Republican Party with more generous Government services and larger cash assistance payments.
Gigworld,
What in the world are you babbling on about? I am for a guest worker program – not citizenship? Like I have told many others, I suggest you stick with trying to make your own points. Your little fantasy Strata only reflects on you and what is running around in your head.
Retire 05 – Here is an undocumented illegal immigrant in the US military –
http://www.statesman.com/metrostate/content/metro/stories/07/7airman.html
If they can’t serve, they why does SSS require them to register – just like my American born son?
“ATTENTION, UNDOCUMENTED MALES
& IMMIGRANT SERVICING GROUPS!
If you are a man ages 18 through 25 and living in the U.S., then you must register with Selective Service. It’s the law. You can register at any U.S. Post Office and do not need a social security number. When you do obtain a social security number, let Selective Service know. Provide a copy of your new social security number card; include your complete name, date of birth, Selective Service registration number, and current mailing address; and mail to the Selective Service System, P.O. Box 94636, Palatine, IL 60094-4636.
Be sure to register before your 26th birthday. After that, it’s too late!
“Selective Service does not collect any information which would indicate whether or not you are undocumented. You want to protect yourself for future U.S. citizenship and other government benefits and programs by registering with Selective Service. Do it today.”
http://www.sss.gov/
They do indeed serve in our military.
http://www.sss.gov/
ATTENTION, UNDOCUMENTED MALES
& IMMIGRANT SERVICING GROUPS!
If you are a man ages 18 through 25 and living in the U.S., then you must register with Selective Service. It’s the law. You can register at any U.S. Post Office and do not need a social security number. When you do obtain a social security number, let Selective Service know. Provide a copy of your new social security number card; include your complete name, date of birth, Selective Service registration number, and current mailing address; and mail to the Selective Service System, P.O. Box 94636, Palatine, IL 60094-4636.
Be sure to register before your 26th birthday. After that, it’s too late
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/994940/posts
“In a widely watched immigration case, the Army yesterday said it will assist Pvt. Juan Escalante, of Seattle, an illegal immigrant and veteran of the Iraq conflict, in securing legal status to remain in the United States.”
Enlightened
You said you could not support sending a 70 year old man back after he has paid his taxes and paid off his mortgage. Please tell me how an illegal can pay off a mortgage or indeed even get a mortgage when he cannot even get a bank account without a social security number. Or pay his taxes without same. If he has a social security number it is a temporary one that states how long he can remain in this country or it is counterfeit. If it is conterfeit he has commited a real crime by taking an American citizen’s identity. No mortgage company would grant a loan to a temporary worker no matter what his legal status was. Not if they expected to regain their money at some point in time. You say he has lived in this country for 30 years and he failed to become a citizen in all that time. I don’t believe in this mythical man. This is just a hearts and flowers story to sway people.