Nov 15 2006
Republicans Losing It
Update: Tony Blankley takes a stab at how to proceed as well. Let me say this about conservatism as I see it. It stands for the sanctity of life and the sanctity of this country. Everything else flows from there. Small government? Freedom to live your life. It is not enough to have life, we must be able to express our lives to our individual talents. That is why we strive for minimal government. Enough government to protect and help those in dire straights, but not one that dictates to us what to do. That means Embryonic Stem Cell Research is not something acceptable under broad conservative principles. It is why a guest worker program is acceptable (pay for past digressions, but make a living here as a guest). It is why we cannot fall back from Iraq – we risk bringing the terrorist storm back to our shores. It is why we honor the those who defend this country and do not smear them. All we need to agree on is the broad principles and apply them with compromise among the conservative coalition to win majorities and make progress.
But to make this happen means the hard liners need to climb down off their diases and join the coalition as equals – not superiors. Everyone who is a conservative speaks from the passion of the heart about the sanctity of life and this country. That alone does not make their proposed solutions correct or right. It simply means their heart is in the right place. If we want to organize against rampant liberalism then it can be done as equals in a common cause. Otherwise it is a bunch of useless factions.
end update
It seems the Republicans in the House have decided to push for illegal immigrants to leave the country again.
Some Republicans have expressed reluctance to return Mr. Boehner to leadership after last week’s disastrous elections, and some are opposed to Mr. Pence for forging a compromise on immigration that critics dismissed as “amnesty.” Yesterday, Mr. Pence renounced those efforts.
“All those debates about compromise are a thing of the past,” he said in an interview with talk-radio host Laura Ingraham.
“I reject any form of amnesty, even if we’ve got border security,” he said. “I really reject the idea that people whose first act in this country was a violation of the law ought to be able to get right with the law without leaving the country.”
That’s it for me. You can ‘break the law’ by speeding. There are penalties in the comprehensive proposals, they just do not include ripping people from the homes and families and jobs as punishment. It seems the Reps are trying to punish illegal immigrants for their own screw ups and losses. Typical DC vendetta talk.
Reminds me of how all those brave arm chair warriors pounced on the Dubai Ports International company because they were Arab and Muslim based – a way to punish Arabs and Muslims for 9-11. Even though the company hails from one of our staunchest allies, the United Arab Emirites (UAE). The Rep and their talk show buddies accused these people of all sorts of conspiracies and hidden agendas, when the truth was the company had agreed to pay for state-of-the-art cargo inspection gear AT ALL THEIR PORTS. The company was willing to fund our outer defenses at ports feeding materials to this country. And the Reps decided to punish them in their fit of Rambo-esque play acting.
We have a war to focus on and these people want to spend our limited security forces rounding up people and throwing them over the border. Like I said – good riddence to the Republican House. If that is what they stand for I am out.
Update: In case anyone on the far right is even still listening, here is another analysis that illustrates why doing the same bad things will bring the same bad results. All of this need to punish illegal immigrants has only punished those calling for punishment. The illegal aliens are still here, they are still in an underground economy, there are those amongst them who are violent criminals who should be deported. The hard liners are the ones who lost – who are in essense being punished. When are they going to wake up and realize the punishment is not being applied where they wanted it to be?
AJ,
What’s the old saying, “Failure from the jaws of Victory”.
Seems the Republicans left in Congress have a new one;
“More Failure from the jaws of Failure”.
Paging President Bush to the Bully Pulpit.
Republicans won’t even get their fence now either. Like I said, Politics is all about getting what you can get today and hoping you live till tomarrow. Since the all or nothing card was played, Republicans lost, they get nothing. You had it, on a platter right infront of you……
AJ:
You are right about the Reps (and the Dems) focusing in the wrong direction. Glenn Beck has a special on CNN Headline News (7pm & 9pm est) about exposing the Islamic extremist agenda. I heard him speak about it on the radio last night and it scared the heck out of me. Here’s a link if you want to share with other readers:
http://www.glennbeck.com/home/index.shtml
“I really reject the idea that people whose first act in this country was a violation of the law ought to be able to get right with the law without leaving the country.â€
Yup, that’s pretty much my breaking point too, right there. He’s not even talking about “amnesty” here; he’s talking about people “get[ting] right with the law.” Presumably paying back taxes without earning Social Security and being subject to instant deportation for commission of a felony would be “get[ting] right with the law,” which Pence seems to find unacceptable. In other words, he doesn’t want ANY amends AT ALL from these particular lawbreakers; he just wants them to get the f*** out of the country, period.
This is ridiculous. Have we deported Zacharias Moussaoui yet? No? Then why this obsession with illegal immigrants whose only crime is simply being in the country? You’d think the Republicans would have bigger things to worry about. And you’d think that maybe people would start making a distinction between illegal immigrants who come here to work and illegal immigrants who come here to commit crimes or even terrorism, but no — and this is the other thing about this immigration issue that’s really bugged me — people who rant about the “treason lobby” don’t seem to make that distinction.
OK, now **I’m** ranting, so I’ll just stop.
I still think we screwed up on UAE.
I still think that once the illegal immigrants are already here deserve fair amnesty. I’ve heard horror stories about the process that they had to go through to get their legal status, including renewing driver’s license.
An elderly couple immigrated to Florida from Columbia and applied for asylum. Their request continue to be denied year after year. Why? Because granting this request qualifies them for medicare, medicaid, and SSN. At least, that’s the answer I got.
A young woman from Columbia lost her driver’s license after she got married here and had a kid. They refused to grant her a new driver’s license. Why? Because she failed to update her visa or something with her new married name. And they continue to prolong the process in updating her visa or something with her new married name. She has a job as a janitor at Marriott. Now someone has to chauffeur her. Her kid, btw, is afflicted with cerebral palsy.
And for any illegal immigrants to get their legal status, they end up paying their lawyers ten or fifteen grand to bypass these cumbersome processes.
That’s why I have a problem with Michelle Malkin.
Just read your update about your perspective on conservatism and agree with it.
And we need the right leader for the GOP. Looks like it is not going to happen.
Karig,
Right with you on this. Good point about Moussaoui. Keep on ranting.
Update: In case anyone on the far right is even still listening, here is another analysis that illustrates why doing the same bad things will bring the same bad results.
AJ, I read Hillyers’s “American Spectator” piece (twice) and then did a word search. The word “immigration” doesn’t even appear in the article. Actually, I thought it was a pretty good analysis of what the GOP needs to do in the future. Are you sure you posted that link to the correct thread?
I too was dissapointed at Pence’s remarks. I like and have a great deal of respect for Mike Pence, who represents the Indiana district just south of mine. During all the debate earlier this year he had come up with what sounded like a workable compromise.
Ever since the debate on immigration heated up, I was always of the opinion that the illegal immigration problem should receive a triage approach. When paramedics arrive on an accident scene with a victim bleeding profusely, they don’t say “we need a comprehensive strategy here”. The have a priority strategy called triage. It really doesn’t matter what broken bones or internal injuries the victim has; if massive bleeding isn’t brought under control ASAP.
What we’ve had on our borders by virtually everyone’s admission, particularly the southern border, is massive hemmoraging of illegals. A “fence first” made sense to me, if for no other reason, than a show of good faith that our government is sincere about solving the problem, but I never viewed it as more than a first step.
AJ, you know I agree with you most of the time, and I don’t totally disagree with you on this issue. In fact, back when the immigration debate was the most heated, you came up with a plan that most of us endorsed. I do have one question, however. During the late stages of the mid-term campaign, you went to extraordinary lengths to show how the majority of polls were just simply wrong, and yet you treat polls that show that 60-70% support “comprehensive immigration reform” as gospel. Am I missing something here?
I’ve seen a number of names thrown around for leadership none of which I truly believe will do much to right the ship, but who do you guys think would be able to truly get it right? I find myself really in a tough spot, I don’t like how either party is looking.
I have to agree with you AJ, sending illegals back home is non productive. That’s why over here in Texas we have started a new program to send the illegals that have been rounded up straight up to the DC area, no stops along the way to get treated for the diseases and parasites they carry. Your system can take care of that. So what that your taxes go up, you have the moral high ground. Also it’s not likely anyone in your family will get infected with a disease before the illegal is treated. If they do, so what. Your on the moral high ground. Just a little advice, if a bunch of illegals are walking down the road in front of your house and decide to use your front yard as a toilet, remember CLOROX IS YOUR FRIEND.
To further help everyone out you might like to know, the illegals that come here to work stamp a “W” on their foreheads right before they cross the border. A “C” on thier forehead means they are coming here to commite crimes. If you don’t see a W or C on an illegals forehead, well join the club. You’re just become one of us “Hicks from the Stix”, we’re too stupid to know by looking at them why they are here.
AJ,
Please tell me, without a Physical Barrier to keep those who you wish to deport, from re entering, what is the point of Deporting the Criminals, if they keep on coming back and commiting more crimes?
I challenge you: go to
http://www.immigrationshumancost.org
read about the Americans killed by Illegals. The overwelming majority are killed by Illegals who either
A. have been deported previously
B. have long criminal records of crime committed here, and got a slap on the wrist, or nothing at all.
C. have committed crimes, been deported, then came back and repeted the same cycle.
People like myself, whom you seem to dislike, wanted a wall or fence first to
A. stop the flood
B. keep those we actual do deport out
C. deter others from making the trip
And because so many of those who are here Illegaly working, work under the table, how in the world do you determine what their back taxes would be?
I went into greater detail in your other post on this subject.
Hayseed,
That was an ugly post. Illegal aliens are not ‘diseases’. The KKK is just as ugly, if not more. You cannot take the worst of a group and tar a people with them as the example. These are people, try and treat them as such. We are up to our eyeballs here in Herndon, VA with illegals. They rampage the streets. But they are also human beings. I want those who are productive elements of our town to stay, learn english, carry their weight (pay taxes) and abide the laws. Those who cannot abide the laws or cannot keep a job can leave. This is not complicated.
Urinating on lawns is illegal – call the police next time.
But back to your post. I will not abide racism or bigotry on this blog. Keep it civil or take a hike.
SteveWS,
You do know the comprehensive bill included the Fence – right?
Please stop. Your just proving my point. You folks are arguing fantasies – not realities.
AJ,
So, your saying the Bill contained 2,000 mile of fencing?Please stop. Your just proving my point. You folks are arguing fantasies – not realities.
AJ
The only racism has to be in your own head. It doesn’t matter what color your skin is, if you live in the tropics and unsanitary conditions, as most of these people have, you are going to be exposed to diseases and parasites. Here in Texas we’re getting them straight out of the tropics. Doctors over here are seeing diseases they have never seen before. They don’t know anything about it. They don’t know how to treat it or even if it is contagious or not. We don’t have an answer for it over here, what is your answer? Don’t throw racism at the people that are your first line of defense.
I may be wrong but AJ’s post seems to me to be addressing a much larger point than just the illegal immigration problem. It is this new elitist mindset of “my way or the highway” about several different issues that certain individuals on the neo-right are screeching about. They are as distasteful as the loony left. They are turning off huge segments of the right side of the aisle.
I am sick to death of hearing about “the fence” as if some piddly fence is going to do a darn thing in the long run. I’ve got news for you, all your precious fence will do is create new routes that don’t have to deal with the fence. Frankly, no one who lives in the Prairie states or back in the cities of the East should even be allowed to opine on the subject. These southern border illegals are using routes through the mountains. The land is very rugged. The paths narrow. There is little hope of every fencing these routes. There are other patrolling measures that would be far more useful than putting so much money into the fence. And without a comprehensive solution, you have no solution at all.
I’m tired of seeing Republicans eat their own. I’m discouraged to see it because it means we will not be winning any elections for a long long time so I feel betrayed by my own side. It makes me sick to see them when they think they didn’t get their own way acting just like nutrooters and immediately going on the personal attacks crying like a bunch of whiny babies. They want Michael Steele so Mel Martinez is dumb, ignorant, useless, really dumb, incompetent, etc, etc, etc. Mel Martinez is not dumb, stupid or ignorant. He may not have the best talents for the particular job, but he doesn’t deserve to be attacked on a personal level. And there is no indication that Steele would have any appeal to the lost voters in the Hispanic community. Steele is a talented and well spoken man, but he isn’t any more prepared for the RNC Chair than Martinez or any less perhaps. The point is trashing a man because he isn’t your man is clueless and classless and it turns off a bigger segment of voters than whatever you are complaining about in the first place.
I am most dismayed over the fact that these neo-rights will not accept that they lost this election for the rest of us. They can not conceive that they were wrong, period. Wrong on the hardline immigration stance, wrong on Dubai, wrong even today on their attitude about Trent Lott. There are a lot of super bright people out there and in a few more years they will be ready to take their rightful place, but right now they are far too inexperienced to fight in the trenches and their naive outlook is costing all of us.
AJ for the second time this week I say AMEN to you!
Hayseed,
I have a BS in Biology and I can tell you that diseases travel many routes. Many come from the millions of air travellers. They also come over through the animal population. And we have diseases to you know. Your just tagging illnesses on these people out of ignorance. It doesn’t matter if they come over legally or illegally in terms of infectious potential.
Last warning.
AJ,
In a previous post you wrote –
“You do know the comprehensive bill included the Fence – right?
Please stop. Your just proving my point. You folks are arguing fantasies – not realities.”
Someone has sold you a bill of goods AJ. I don’t know where you are getting your facts, but they are flat out wrong. You are misinformed and you have based your argument around misinformation.
The McCain-Kennedy “Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act” is Senate bill 1033. It can be found here –
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:S.1033.IS:
In the upper right hand corner is a link labeled “Printer Friendly Display” which will display the entire bill. Click that link and you should see the entire bill. Use your browser’s “Find text” or “Find in this page” search function and do a search for the word “fence”. You won’t find it.
The word “fence” is not in the bill.
The relevant sections, i.e. regarding border security, are sections –
111-113
121-125
and 131-133
I have given you a link directly to the bill, you need not take my word for anything – you can go read it for yourself.
I count myself in the “Fence First” crowd and I make no apology for it. As a matter of fact, I feel I am completely in the right for asking for the fence first, and I resent the need to even have this debate.
Here is my analogy for the debate we are having.
You and I charter a boat in Virginia for some deep sea fishing. We head out about 10 miles off shore and begin fishing. Just as soon as we start fishing, we realize that our boat is taking on water. We have sprung several big holes. Now, I don’t know about you, but I don’t think I can swim 10 miles back to shore.
Stupid little ol’ me wants to plug the holes in the boat before we sink. You on the other hand want to have a debate about what to do with the water that is already in the boat.
I resent even having to argue with you about it.
Let’s plug the holes in the boat, and then we can talk about what to do with the water in the boat.
Apache IP
The Comprehensive Bill, when it was being debated in the Senate had around 300 miles of fencing.
The man who talked about Illegals and diseases is correct. I’ve sent out numerous article from hospital spokesman over the year stating what a major problem this is.
So, enlighten us: You say there are ways to find out how much back taxes are owed by those working under the table. Sound very hard to me sense they have no Hire Date on file, No hourly wage on file, and no hours worked on file. How? A team of investigaters for every case?
During the late stages of the mid-term campaign, you went to extraordinary lengths to show how the majority of polls were just simply wrong, and yet you treat polls that show that 60-70% support “comprehensive immigration reform†as gospel. Am I missing something here?
I second this question.