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	<title>Comments on: ISG A Wasted Punt</title>
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	<description>High Flying Political Debate</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: AJStrata</title>
		<link>http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/3064/comment-page-3#comment-29431</link>
		<dc:creator>AJStrata</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 23:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/3064#comment-29431</guid>
		<description>Ken,

Last and final warning.  I do not have this blog so childish people like you can indulge their insecurity complexes.  Suggest you take a time out and figure out how to get past puberty before you post again.

AJStrata</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken,</p>
<p>Last and final warning.  I do not have this blog so childish people like you can indulge their insecurity complexes.  Suggest you take a time out and figure out how to get past puberty before you post again.</p>
<p>AJStrata</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/3064/comment-page-2#comment-29428</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 23:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/3064#comment-29428</guid>
		<description>Pardon, selling one?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pardon, selling one?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/3064/comment-page-2#comment-29426</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 23:26:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/3064#comment-29426</guid>
		<description>Strata 

Reality in the form of Webb/Allen caught up with you; reality in the form of Bush&#039;s willing or forced retreat will catch up with you.
Even you, who says &quot;we are not winning or losing&quot; when the political goals --of implanting a pro-American, pro-Israeli pseudo-democracy, sans Shariah law...are already lost.

Oh, and the al Qaeda taking over Iraq bit? That went out sometime
in late 2004 as an effective lie. You drive a Yugo?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Strata </p>
<p>Reality in the form of Webb/Allen caught up with you; reality in the form of Bush&#8217;s willing or forced retreat will catch up with you.<br />
Even you, who says &#8220;we are not winning or losing&#8221; when the political goals &#8211;of implanting a pro-American, pro-Israeli pseudo-democracy, sans Shariah law&#8230;are already lost.</p>
<p>Oh, and the al Qaeda taking over Iraq bit? That went out sometime<br />
in late 2004 as an effective lie. You drive a Yugo?</p>
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		<title>By: wiley</title>
		<link>http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/3064/comment-page-2#comment-29276</link>
		<dc:creator>wiley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 05:29:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/3064#comment-29276</guid>
		<description>Anyone who reads Woodward&#039;s books (especially, State of Denial) as gospel is, well, naive to start with.  Frankly, her (CH) jittery meanderings are annoying, not fun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone who reads Woodward&#8217;s books (especially, State of Denial) as gospel is, well, naive to start with.  Frankly, her (CH) jittery meanderings are annoying, not fun.</p>
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		<title>By: For Enforcement</title>
		<link>http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/3064/comment-page-2#comment-29266</link>
		<dc:creator>For Enforcement</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 04:31:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/3064#comment-29266</guid>
		<description>Okay, let&#039;s ask her why,   
Carol H.  why are you very angry with Pres Bush.
Don&#039;&#039; t blow smoke, plain and simple</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, let&#8217;s ask her why,<br />
Carol H.  why are you very angry with Pres Bush.<br />
Don&#8221; t blow smoke, plain and simple</p>
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		<title>By: Barbara</title>
		<link>http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/3064/comment-page-2#comment-29264</link>
		<dc:creator>Barbara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 04:29:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/3064#comment-29264</guid>
		<description>I used to enjoy Carol_Herman&#039;s posts but she has been reading books written by people on the other side and she has been brainwashed.  She said herself she was reading Woodward&#039;s newest book and was getting a lot of information from it.  What she is getting is a bunch of lies because that bunch don&#039;t know anything else.  Carol is very angry with Bush for some reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used to enjoy Carol_Herman&#8217;s posts but she has been reading books written by people on the other side and she has been brainwashed.  She said herself she was reading Woodward&#8217;s newest book and was getting a lot of information from it.  What she is getting is a bunch of lies because that bunch don&#8217;t know anything else.  Carol is very angry with Bush for some reason.</p>
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		<title>By: Barbara</title>
		<link>http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/3064/comment-page-2#comment-29261</link>
		<dc:creator>Barbara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 04:19:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/3064#comment-29261</guid>
		<description>If the nut job in Iran has his way the NYT and other media outfits in NYC won&#039;t have anything to say.  NYC will be an ash heap and all these people will be dead.  NYC and Washington, DC will be their first targets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the nut job in Iran has his way the NYT and other media outfits in NYC won&#8217;t have anything to say.  NYC will be an ash heap and all these people will be dead.  NYC and Washington, DC will be their first targets.</p>
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		<title>By: Harun</title>
		<link>http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/3064/comment-page-2#comment-29257</link>
		<dc:creator>Harun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 03:34:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/3064#comment-29257</guid>
		<description>Let me be optimistic on the ISG report:

1. It provides political cover - and while that may look like a bad thing, it actually is a good thing. It defuses the Dems - who can now ignore Iraq instead of having hearing after hearing. Thus condoning in reality a stay the course lite plan after all.

2. A deadline didn&#039;t make much sense a year ago when the Iraqi government looked like it could do something. Now, they might need some pushing and a deadline might concentrate some minds. Plus, deadlines can always be changed.  A cooling of period where the militias and insurgents &quot;wait&quot; for us to leave might also be very useful on its own right.

3. The focus on the training of the Iraqis is the right one - we were doing that anyways and it should be accelerated.  So, when do we push the fledging Iraqis out of the nest to see if they can fly? Well, every mother is nervous, but maybe we shouldn&#039;t be. Many third word armies deal with long running insurgencies pretty well. 

4. Al Qaeda in Iraq is not going to win. The majority of people in Iraq hate them and the Anbar tribes are fighting them. This is the least of our worries in terms of meltdown scenarios. The civil war or Iranian capture of Iraq are much more serious. I would guess we will keep units dedicated to killing those folks off the withdrawl lists.

5. Talking with Iran and Syria - who knows? This is the weakest part of the ISG, but we already offered talks to Iran about nukes. And while often times these talks end up being sweet nothings, they do serve a purpose of denying the Left the &quot; if only we&#039;d talk&quot; fantasy critique. Personally they will probably amount to the Nork talks, i.e. talks about talks. In any case, talk IS cheap, and we aren&#039;t promising anything but talks at this point. We should merely follow the Nork/Iran diplomatic strategy which has been so successful.

Now this part is more speculative: Selling Lebanon out will be much harder than it sounds, and probably result in a nice backlash among Lebanese and world opinion that ends up ixnaying any such plans. Remember if America is FOR something, most likely Europe and the Left will oppose it vigorously. So let&#039;s use that to our advantage.

Okay, that&#039;s just some thoughts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me be optimistic on the ISG report:</p>
<p>1. It provides political cover &#8211; and while that may look like a bad thing, it actually is a good thing. It defuses the Dems &#8211; who can now ignore Iraq instead of having hearing after hearing. Thus condoning in reality a stay the course lite plan after all.</p>
<p>2. A deadline didn&#8217;t make much sense a year ago when the Iraqi government looked like it could do something. Now, they might need some pushing and a deadline might concentrate some minds. Plus, deadlines can always be changed.  A cooling of period where the militias and insurgents &#8220;wait&#8221; for us to leave might also be very useful on its own right.</p>
<p>3. The focus on the training of the Iraqis is the right one &#8211; we were doing that anyways and it should be accelerated.  So, when do we push the fledging Iraqis out of the nest to see if they can fly? Well, every mother is nervous, but maybe we shouldn&#8217;t be. Many third word armies deal with long running insurgencies pretty well. </p>
<p>4. Al Qaeda in Iraq is not going to win. The majority of people in Iraq hate them and the Anbar tribes are fighting them. This is the least of our worries in terms of meltdown scenarios. The civil war or Iranian capture of Iraq are much more serious. I would guess we will keep units dedicated to killing those folks off the withdrawl lists.</p>
<p>5. Talking with Iran and Syria &#8211; who knows? This is the weakest part of the ISG, but we already offered talks to Iran about nukes. And while often times these talks end up being sweet nothings, they do serve a purpose of denying the Left the &#8221; if only we&#8217;d talk&#8221; fantasy critique. Personally they will probably amount to the Nork talks, i.e. talks about talks. In any case, talk IS cheap, and we aren&#8217;t promising anything but talks at this point. We should merely follow the Nork/Iran diplomatic strategy which has been so successful.</p>
<p>Now this part is more speculative: Selling Lebanon out will be much harder than it sounds, and probably result in a nice backlash among Lebanese and world opinion that ends up ixnaying any such plans. Remember if America is FOR something, most likely Europe and the Left will oppose it vigorously. So let&#8217;s use that to our advantage.</p>
<p>Okay, that&#8217;s just some thoughts.</p>
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		<title>By: wiley</title>
		<link>http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/3064/comment-page-2#comment-29256</link>
		<dc:creator>wiley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 03:32:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/3064#comment-29256</guid>
		<description>Carol_H&#039;s incoherent ramblings should come with a warning -- read at your own risk, headaches and other side effects common.

Our country and the world are a far better place for our taking down Saddam&#039;s thugocracy.  Yeah, it&#039;s a tough slog right now, but it&#039;s not as bad as all the doomsayers.  Iraq is a key battle in the global war on terror.  Let&#039;s keep the big picture perspective and forge ahead.  Unfortunately, we also have to contend with the anti-Bush and anti-military MSM and the liberal lefty peaceniks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carol_H&#8217;s incoherent ramblings should come with a warning &#8212; read at your own risk, headaches and other side effects common.</p>
<p>Our country and the world are a far better place for our taking down Saddam&#8217;s thugocracy.  Yeah, it&#8217;s a tough slog right now, but it&#8217;s not as bad as all the doomsayers.  Iraq is a key battle in the global war on terror.  Let&#8217;s keep the big picture perspective and forge ahead.  Unfortunately, we also have to contend with the anti-Bush and anti-military MSM and the liberal lefty peaceniks.</p>
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		<title>By: crosspatch</title>
		<link>http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/3064/comment-page-2#comment-29244</link>
		<dc:creator>crosspatch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 02:47:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/3064#comment-29244</guid>
		<description>Terrye, I ment fence sitters in Iraq, not here.

The absolute guaranteed way to lose a war is to continue telling your opponent that they are winning and to tell your troops and your allies that you are losing.  War is 90% psychological these days because we dare not use our full force.  Our media decides these days who wins a war.  I just hope the idiots at the Times refuse to pray 5 times a day and are the first in line to get their heads chopped off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terrye, I ment fence sitters in Iraq, not here.</p>
<p>The absolute guaranteed way to lose a war is to continue telling your opponent that they are winning and to tell your troops and your allies that you are losing.  War is 90% psychological these days because we dare not use our full force.  Our media decides these days who wins a war.  I just hope the idiots at the Times refuse to pray 5 times a day and are the first in line to get their heads chopped off.</p>
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		<title>By: A Blog For All</title>
		<link>http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/3064/comment-page-2#comment-29236</link>
		<dc:creator>A Blog For All</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 01:46:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/3064#comment-29236</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;The ISG Report Is In...&lt;/strong&gt;

This is why I call the Baker boys psuedorealists and why the media doesn&#039;t quite get it....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>The ISG Report Is In&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>This is why I call the Baker boys psuedorealists and why the media doesn&#8217;t quite get it&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Terrye</title>
		<link>http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/3064/comment-page-2#comment-29220</link>
		<dc:creator>Terrye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 00:26:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/3064#comment-29220</guid>
		<description>From Taranto at Best of Web:

 The recommendations of the Iraq Study Group are out, and those who are eager for a quick American defeat will be disappointed. The full report is here, and the Associated Press summarizes the findings:

    President Bush&#039;s policy in Iraq &quot;is not working,&quot; a high-level commission said Wednesday in a blunt, bleak assessment that urged an immediate diplomatic attempt to stabilize the country and allow withdrawal of most combat troops by early 2008. . . .

    &quot;Military priorities must change,&quot; the report said, toward a goal of training, equipping and advising Iraqi forces. &quot;We should seek to complete the training and equipping mission by the end of the first quarter of 2008.&quot;

    The commission recommended the number of U.S. troops embedded to train Iraqis should increase dramatically, from 3,000-4,000 currently to 10,000-20,000. Commission member William Perry, defense secretary in the Clinton administration, said those could be drawn from combat brigades already in Iraq.

    Then, by early 2008, combat troops could begin to leave the country.

More than a year ago, Rep. John Murtha caused a stir when he said America should &quot;immediately redeploy,&quot; though he later claimed this wasn&#039;t what he meant (another botched joke?). The ISG&#039;s recommendation is much more moderate: a partial withdrawal, beginning more than a year from now, contingent on the success of efforts to train Iraqi forces. It seems like a plausible approach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From Taranto at Best of Web:</p>
<p> The recommendations of the Iraq Study Group are out, and those who are eager for a quick American defeat will be disappointed. The full report is here, and the Associated Press summarizes the findings:</p>
<p>    President Bush&#8217;s policy in Iraq &#8220;is not working,&#8221; a high-level commission said Wednesday in a blunt, bleak assessment that urged an immediate diplomatic attempt to stabilize the country and allow withdrawal of most combat troops by early 2008. . . .</p>
<p>    &#8220;Military priorities must change,&#8221; the report said, toward a goal of training, equipping and advising Iraqi forces. &#8220;We should seek to complete the training and equipping mission by the end of the first quarter of 2008.&#8221;</p>
<p>    The commission recommended the number of U.S. troops embedded to train Iraqis should increase dramatically, from 3,000-4,000 currently to 10,000-20,000. Commission member William Perry, defense secretary in the Clinton administration, said those could be drawn from combat brigades already in Iraq.</p>
<p>    Then, by early 2008, combat troops could begin to leave the country.</p>
<p>More than a year ago, Rep. John Murtha caused a stir when he said America should &#8220;immediately redeploy,&#8221; though he later claimed this wasn&#8217;t what he meant (another botched joke?). The ISG&#8217;s recommendation is much more moderate: a partial withdrawal, beginning more than a year from now, contingent on the success of efforts to train Iraqi forces. It seems like a plausible approach.</p>
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		<title>By: For Enforcement</title>
		<link>http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/3064/comment-page-2#comment-29219</link>
		<dc:creator>For Enforcement</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 00:24:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/3064#comment-29219</guid>
		<description>Which one would I want,

Either  GW Washington or 
               H S Truman</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which one would I want,</p>
<p>Either  GW Washington or<br />
               H S Truman</p>
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		<title>By: ivehadit</title>
		<link>http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/3064/comment-page-2#comment-29216</link>
		<dc:creator>ivehadit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 00:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/3064#comment-29216</guid>
		<description>George W. Bush will do what HE thinks is right. He get ALL the intel and all the advice. He is intent upon keeping us safe which means that we MUST have Iraq become a stable democracy.

Exactly what elected positions do any on this stupid Iraq committee hold? THEY ARE IRRELEVENT.

THERE IS ONLY ONE COMMANDER IN CHIEF. 

And for the record: which of these former commanders-in-chief would you want protecting America today?
JFK
LBJ
J. CARTER
W.J.CLINTON

The democrats do not know how to protect America. Period. They, along with their media cohorts have aided and abetted the enemy bordering on high treason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>George W. Bush will do what HE thinks is right. He get ALL the intel and all the advice. He is intent upon keeping us safe which means that we MUST have Iraq become a stable democracy.</p>
<p>Exactly what elected positions do any on this stupid Iraq committee hold? THEY ARE IRRELEVENT.</p>
<p>THERE IS ONLY ONE COMMANDER IN CHIEF. </p>
<p>And for the record: which of these former commanders-in-chief would you want protecting America today?<br />
JFK<br />
LBJ<br />
J. CARTER<br />
W.J.CLINTON</p>
<p>The democrats do not know how to protect America. Period. They, along with their media cohorts have aided and abetted the enemy bordering on high treason.</p>
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		<title>By: For Enforcement</title>
		<link>http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/3064/comment-page-2#comment-29214</link>
		<dc:creator>For Enforcement</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Dec 2006 23:57:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/3064#comment-29214</guid>
		<description>AJ,  not trying to argue the point, but I didn&#039;t see the &#039;date certain&#039; either in the executive summary or in the linked article in the WaPo.  
I don&#039;t like anything about the ISG, especially the fact that there is such a thing, but it does seem in the exec summary that they do understand the situation.   I didn&#039;t read the &#039;full report&#039;.    It may just be a matter of interpretation.
I believe Pres Bush understands the situation better than most and will look out for the folks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AJ,  not trying to argue the point, but I didn&#8217;t see the &#8216;date certain&#8217; either in the executive summary or in the linked article in the WaPo.<br />
I don&#8217;t like anything about the ISG, especially the fact that there is such a thing, but it does seem in the exec summary that they do understand the situation.   I didn&#8217;t read the &#8216;full report&#8217;.    It may just be a matter of interpretation.<br />
I believe Pres Bush understands the situation better than most and will look out for the folks.</p>
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