Dec 08 2006
Strange Report On Poisoned Cup
This seems a bit wierd and doesn’t explain much of the contamination.
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Hmmm. I wondered – Is it possible that the assassin posed as a Millenium employee? Have all the M employees been accounted for? No rumors of a “missing” employee? That could explain their exposure – he/she stepped behind the bar, dropped the PO210 in the “cup”, maybe a little sloshing here and there, other employees clean it up and the assassin went on their merry little way.
It could have been done right at the table. Ever seen a fancy card dealer or other “slight of hand” specialist? Doesn’t take much but to have a little hobby in magic.
Interesting possibility, Enlightened. As I recall the Times report, UK authorities believe the poison cocktail was mixed in one of the hotel’s hotel rooms, the assassin tried to administer it to Litvinenko at the sushi restaurant, failed, and then gave it to him at the hotel.
At the hotel, one report is that he drank only tea. Another that he had vodka.
At the sushi bar, I don’t recall exactly but I believe he had soup and maybe tea.
Is is possible the tea bag contained PO or if loose tea, the leaves were dipped in PO? Do the police believe this because the “spill” in the hotel room contained some traces of tea?
Would have to be multiple assassins. Doesnt make sense. For it to be an employee of the pine bar, someone would have had to know he would be at the pine bar. Getting someone situation as an emplooyee of a hotel working in just the right spot takes considerable advance work, not something done “off the cuff”.
Doesn’t explain how Scaramella got such a huge dose inside him without getting any on him either.
One thing that strikes me is that it must be a pretty huge bar for 7 employees to be contaminated there. Some reports say that it’s 7 employees at the Milennium hotel, some say that they worked specifically in the bar. If Po-210 got loose in the hotel room, any person cleaning there would be contaminated, and it is also possible people in the hotel could pick it up through the ventilation system. The latter, fortunately, doesn’t appear to be the case, since it does not explain why it’s only Milennium hotel employees, and not visitors, who are showing signs of contamination.
We don’t know how much Scaramella ingested do we?
As for Russia wouldn’t dare–Try KAL airline as just one example when they in fact did dare.
For those who believe that this was an assassination, I have a question: Of all the ways to kill someone, why with polonium? Why such an exotic means of poisoning? I’m just seeking you opinion mind you. I know it would be impossible for you to actually determine their thinking behind why. I just want to know what reasons would be acceptable for you to rule out all other methods of assassination and all other poisons and substances. You may have already answered this in another post, but please forgive me for not keeping up with everything written on this subject!
They haven’t tested visitors yet. They just issued a call to 200 people today to come in and be tested. If the Russian govt. did this and contaminated hundreds of people, there are going to be some serious consequences to pay. The people will demand it. That’s why I don’t think they did it. WAY too risky.
Try to answer with as much in consideration as possible (eg cost, availability, transportation, know-how, ease, set-up, traceability, probability of success, etc.)
You only use polonium if you don’t want the poison to be detected and want symptoms to appear weeks after the lethal dose is delivered.
Which is why 50-100x the lethal dose so that symptoms appear the same day and a persons steps can easily be retraced and all this talk of contaminating other people to throw investigators off the trail makes no sense.
You use polonium for stealth if you are going to use it as a poison, but it is pretty much like using a gold bar as a doorstop. There are better, less dangerous things to use as a poison that are just as effective.
Every single piece of this puzzle has smuggling ring, accidental release, pisoning to cover up written all over it. I dont doubt Litvinenko was poisoned. I just don’t think the Russian government did it. I believe either Lugovoi or Scaramella did it.
Which is also apparently what Livinenko believed according to news reports.
Also, for the assassination theorists, is there any way the assassin could have done all that you believe him to have done without himself being contaminated and eventually dead from radiation? I am not asking if we would ever know that the assassin is dead; I only want to know if you believe it to be possible for him to be so careful so as to not contaminate himself.
WoG, I don’t think the assassination story is the most likely, but I can think of a few reasons to kill someone with Po-210.
1) One would be to state an example (this is the most obvious) and scare opponents. Power demonstration.
2) Another would be to make sure people suspect Russians.
3) Demonstrate the effects of Po-210 to the public (something that a terrorist organization would be interested in doing, although it is unclear why it would be demonstrated on Russian spies).
4) The most unpleasant, as well as most unlikely, reason is if it is an assassination and terrorist attack in one.
Lost …
WRT #1 You would only do that if you KNEW it would be detected as polonium. The only time you would use polonium is when you are pretty sure it WOULDN”T be detected.
Russia wouldn’t use polonium like this because now every terrorist in the world knows about it. We are going to see every terrorist in the world trying to make/get their hands on this stuff for decades.
If this is a hit by the Russians, it is so totally stupid on so many different levels that Russia doesn’t deserve to have either a nuclear program or an intelligence service. This would be pure stupidity. If Putin did this, his own people would have him tossed out in the street on his rear end. Russia isn’t THAT stupid.
If you think it possible for him/her to avoid contamination, then it would require a lot of training and know how when dealing with polonium. But that would seem to run contrary with the way this stuff has been spread all over London. For if he knew how to keep himself safe then he should be able to manage covering his steps.
This being the case, it would seem that the assassin would fall into two categories:
1) He was a smart assassin, who knew his stuff and knew his poison, and knew that there was no way for him to escape it himself. This, then, means that he was on a potential suicide mission.
2) He was a dumb, bungling assassin, who knew nothing about the stuff (how it spread, how deadly, how traceable, etc.) only that it was “poison.”
which do you think he was? Or is there a third possibility? Also I recognize that I am assume a single assassin. Adding more people can answer some questions, but it also raises new questions.
The bartenders handled the drink?
WHO the victims are? Lining up dead, or sick. Or contaminated.
But the HOW. Even if you find the “cup” that did it. HOW did so many places get contaminated?
Russia is notorious for POOR QUALITY CONTROLS. That’s why there was Chernobyl. Wouldn’t it be ironic, if the “HOW’ was a maintenance problem? Or carelessness? Or just idiots handling poisons. But they didn’t know they were dangerous at all?
$50-million in product. Isn’t something you pour into a drink.
Multiple trips? Ditto.
Is it possible that Litvenenko KEPT getting dosed? Did he have a favorite bottle of vodka, he shared with the barmen? And, someone slipped “one mickey” inside?
HOW would something like this get designed? Long before it comes “off” the drawing board. It is cooked up.
While the Black Marketeers? They’ve been in business for years and years. What pushes open the envelope?
I know some have said this just shows the “brilliance” of putin. But if you’re going to do “murder for hire” do you do it in stages? With poisons that take time to progress? Wouldn’t “mistakes” be more likely?
And, if it’s “mistakes” … why think putin caused them? And, not human stupidity.
Heck, Polonium killed Madame Courie. And, she wasn’t stupid. Just so totally unaware. And, she loved showing off the X-Ray pictures of the bones inside people.
Well? Science has discoveries that come out of confounding mistakes? Why not something that went wrong?
Since I don’t know HOW you transport Polonium. I have no idea if the vehicle couldn’t be simple bottles of Vodka. Disguised so well, Litvenenko didn’t know the “dummy” from the real thing?
Why wasn’t Litvenenko’s body allowed inside the mosque for his funeral? If the Imam said he was afraid of poisoning the congregation, what did he mean?
And, future transports? Terrorists who have successfully breached security, want to scuttle this? I find that absurd.
Notice that no-one picked up on Channel 4 news report (see video) on the supposed fatal cup which then contaminated the Millenium dishwasher and sparked fears of contamination of the water supply.