Dec 09 2006
Tea Cup Mystery – Final Clue
Many people are making a lot out of a tea cup at the Millenium Hotel in order to conclude that an assassination attempt must have happened at the Millenium Hotel Bar (despite all the other contaminated sites and people which precede the meeting of Litvinenko with Lugovoi and Kovtun):
POISONED former KGB spy Alexander Litvinenko WAS murdered by radioactive tea, it was revealed yesterday.
Scotland Yard detectives have quarantined cups and saucers which show signs of being heavily contaminated with polonium 210 from the Pines Bar at the Millennium Hotel in Mayfair, Central London.
They are convinced that is where Litvinenko was slipped the fatal dose in a cup of tea during a meeting with former KGB colleague Andrei Lugovoi and his business partner Dmitri Kovtun.
Seven bar staff who served them have been sent home showing signs of radiation poisoning. Colleagues say four are already suffering from a “flu like” illness.
A senior Counterterrorism source said: “It’s now a near certainty Mr Litvinenko was poisoned by having polonium 210 slipped into his drink at the hotel, probably while distracted by a phone call or other interruption. The contaminated staff are those who cleared up the crockery and took it to the kitchens.
“We’ve found a cup almost certainly the one poisoned as it has such a high radiation read out.
First back to chemistry 101. Litvinenko had a large amount of Polonium-210 in his system. Polonium can only be disolved or suspended in an acid solution. When free disolved its radiation effect will effect the solution it is in. I doubt the amount of material we are discussing would not show some physical conditions in a cup of tea, if not something alteration to the taste. The tea cup and its contamination exist. So is this the only possibility that fits the facts? Of course not. It is just another in a long list of events where the news media jumped to conclusions to fit their assumed results. And each time they have had to recreate a new scenario with every new fact that has come out. I am not of the opinion whatever the media says will be valid for less than 5 days in this story.
So let’s work on the smuggling ring assumption and see how this plays out. The tea cup, first off, doesn’t have to have come from the bar but could have come from a room. And we have a room of interest on the 4th floor (supposedly 441) where there is a serious contamination and where speculation has it the poison was mixed. The tea cup may be the clue which finally determines whether this was assassination attempt or a smuggling effort gone wrong. And here is why.
It is clear we have a single cup which as very strong indications of a Polonium-210. So strong that it did not lose its contamination signature from washing (which usually cleans off low levels of Polonium 210 from most surfaces). What will scientists do next? They will determine how much Polonium 210 would be needed to leave that kind of signature on the tea cup’s porcelain (a substance known to resist penetration by stains, etc). I predict the results will show that the amount of Polonium-210 that would replicate this ‘burned in’ signature will be many times larger than that found in Litvinenko’s system.
We still have the contaminated room to fold into the story line and here is what I think happened. As I mentioned many times I think there was a smuggling effort which was either combining or dividing Polonium ‘shipments’. This is because this is the third hotel linked to Lugovoi trips to London and meetings with Litvinenko which shows contamination in many rooms (not one). I think on this third known round of smuggling, something happened to one container and there was a desparate need for something to hold Polonium-210 in while the container was fixed or a new one brought in. That would be a tea cup (what us yanks would call a coffee cup) that was in the room and at hand. That is why the tea cup had strong marks on it from contamination.
This makes much more sense than the assassination theory and I will explain why. We have two vessels that supposedly where exposed to the same material – a cup and a human. To leave a signature on a porcelain cup that resisted multiple washings would imply a dosage so strong that Litvinenko should have had his insides burned to a strong degree. I cannot see the same amount of material leaving a strong mark on porcelain and not just destroying the soft tissues of the intestines.
Now I could be wrong because I have not run any chemical equations or anything, but it is like saying an acid that could mark porcelain and would not melt a human being’s insides. So if the amount of material to mark the tea cup was larger than that found in Litvinenko we have another indication this was a smuggling ring. I would suspect police had (or will) test the trash containers, etc to see if anything else was used to deal with the contamination leak in the hotel room. It would make sense that towels might have been used and thrown out. The tea cup should have been thrown out. But I do not think these people, who were the transporters, knew what they were dealing with at all. If they were simply transport for Berezovsky and Zakayev, they would have been told as little as possible.
Which also makes sense with what we see. The bungling could have been due to deliberate ignorance. An assassin would know is weapon and how to be careful with it. A smuggler for hire may not know much except the barest minimum. I would expect the determination on what dose of Polonium-210 would be required to leave a trace on a tea cup to have been done by now. And I doubt it will be leaked to the news media.
And make sure to check out the map/timeline with this story at the Telegraph. It clearly shows what I believe are three rounds of smuggling Polonium 210 into London. Each time Lugovoi is overseeing the activities and Litvinenko seems to the Berezovsky’s messenger for status, etc. And it appears multiple people are transporting small amounts of the material which is why more than one room ends up being contaminated at each site.
Update: The FBI is confirming part of my theory by stating those who handled the material (the ‘assassins’ in the minds of the myopic media) did not have the training (or were even told anything) on how to handle the Polonium-210:
The assassins who poisoned Alexander Litvinenko in a London hotel bar may have exposed themselves to a potentially fatal dose of radioactivity, according to an FBI assessment of the killing.
…
Officials from the FBI, which has been asked to offer technical assistance to the British investigation, have concluded that the killers were not professionally trained to handle the substance. This suggests the use of radioactive material made the killing “as much a message as a murder”, according to FBI sources.
Yeah, right. Or the transporters in a smuggling ring where never told what it was they were transporting – precisely. I doubt anyone would send an assassin out with a weapon that could be traced right back to the source and not explain to them how to avoid getting everyone caught. Sounds more like the FBI leading the news media than them giving a straight response. So the master mind never told the assassin what they had in order – which would make sure the trail never led back to the mastermind! You would think someone who could get their hands on 30 million euros of Polonium would be a bit smarter than that.
Update: No traces found on the plane which took Kovtun from Hamburg to London on Oct 31st. My guess is they will be checking other planes and when/if Kovtun came back to Hamburg after going to Moscow on Nov 3 from London.
Also explain this:
18 October – Lugovoi and Kovtun via TRANSAERO airline depart UK to RU – No exposure on this aircraft?
How is it you can state they were exposed prior to Oct 18 if they were not hot on the return flight of the 18th? They sure as hell did not wash it off and then re-contaminate themselves.
AJ, Clarice is correct on this point, and her argument here is not “lack of reporting,” since several reports stated specifically that Litvinenko told investigators he did not meet in any of rooms in any of the hotels.
And now – Kovtun is not hot on 31 Oct – Hamburg to London.
Kovtun was clearly exposed on 1 Nov with Sasha at Pine Bar.
Aj, that is true in some of the modern chains that cater to business travelers..but not to luxurious hotels like the Millenium. Honest.
You would not get away with this at the George V or the Villa D’Este or the Millenium. The waiter would suggest to you that roome service was available or fuss about insisting someone transport it up for you and embarrass you out of it. They do not allow guests to carry filled cups around the place.
Explain this – Lugovoi, wife and son fly Moscow to London 31 Oct. His wife and son are not exposed?
this is hilarious:
Litvinenko’s wife Marina and friend Alex Goldfarb were both prepared to meet Russian officials – but on the condition British police first tested the investigators for traces of polonium, Goldfarb said Saturday.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6269743,00.html
Left by Lizarde1 on December 9th, 2006
Lizarde, good for them!
I think if I were Marina, via the press I would tell British authorities that I am more than willing to comply and meet with Russian investigators, IF: Brit authorities “sweep” the Russians, accompany me for protection at all times, and even, perhaps, issue me a hazmat suit for protection.
Flabbergast the Kremlin and put them on the defensive.
Mariposa,
I am surprised you cannot think of answers to your questions yourself? Who says the housekeeping has been tested and are negative? If the cup was supposed contaminated and they knew it why would the Russians leave it in the room and not drop it off back downstairs? There are lots of scennarios. I am not worried about the scenarios on how it moved I am awaiting indications of how much Polonium 210 had to be in it to scar it to prove it HAD to have been moved. If the amount of Polonium 210 is 5-10 times the amount Litvinenko had in his body then the poisone could not have been put in the cup in the bar.
Sadly for everyone in the bar that day or evening, if the assassination theory is true then just about everyone is going to show up contaminated, and those nearby Litvinenko and his tea will be seriously ill and soon – just like Kovtun.
I am not sure what will be the pattern if I am right because the thing which is unreported is whether the cup and dishwasher showed radiation scarring or Polonium-210 residue. Washing usualay flushes the Polonium-210 away. Dishwashers tend to let of some steam vapors when running and that could be how the staff got contaminated. But how many cycles did the contamination stay in the dishwasher? If more than one then all the dishes in that cycle could spread the Polonium 210. It could be numerous guests see the same level of poisoning as the bar staff.
Those who should be worried are those who stayed in the contaminated room after the event. They are most at risk. And those who ate at the Pin Bar should be worried too. Because the authorities are only concerned with those who visited the hotel that day – which tells me the contamination only survived one or two washer cycles. If that is the case then no one should see more than the bar staff and that would go against the assassination theory. The assissination theory in the bar would seem to require more cases like Lugovoi and Kuvton to show up.
So you have the 3 Pine Bar comrades – none hot before 1 November.
These 3 men were not smuggling or handling PO210.
Enlightened,
Lugovoi’s family is contaminated.
So after the assassin has contaminated the 3 in the bar – another large contamination occurs in the room on the 4th floor.
Sasha – the target and receiver of the most PO210 – does not enter that room.
Lugovoi and/or Kovtun are the exposers of that room – or the assassin is, and Lugovoi and Kovtun know who that is.
AJ – I cannot find any reports of Lugovoi’s wife and son being contaminated.
And if they are – it was after 1 November.
I recall reports that they had been contaminated, but since they are not hospitalized it does not appear to be a significant contamination.And it would appear that occurred on November 1.
When is a clue, a McGuffin?
IF the black marketeers were “familiar” with Polonium. And, had something of an “unused” supply; Why not think one of the “bad guys” could slip into the hotel unnoticed? Perhaps as a worker? And, stash a cup into the dishwasher. Where it would later show up as a clue?
I know I’m not Sherlock Holmes. But if sites are open. And, people are looking “for” clues, why not provide some?
If all the world’s a stage? Then, a stage manager could direct “props” over a period of time. To where he’d like them to “show up?”
I guess in “assassination” stories, it’s a hit. ONE TIME TYPE EVENT. And, the “jackal” races out of town. And, never allows his photograph taken. Leaves no fingerprints. And, all you get next are the detectives.
What if that’s not so, here?
And, what if? What if the fears of those carting this terrorist materials INTO London, are now freaking out?
How would an imam, for instance, think a corpse in a box, could still “contaminate the crowds” gathered to pray?
What does fear do to criminals? Could it stop, dead in its tracks, a plan that otherwise would not have gone awry?
Talk of people attending the Olympics, in 2012. And, going home, where they then comb all their hair out? One by one. Lots of localities. Where do they go? And, if you say the “first stop” is their doctor’s office. Who’d pull clues together, then? Huh?
Someone who comments, here. I think, SED. Yesterday wrote that IF LITVENENKO KNEW Polonium was what was being carted in; and he got so sick. And, the doctors seemed so puzzled; WOULDN”T he have be tempted to tell his doctors to look for Polonium? Making this “assassination” thing less of a mystery. Because how would the victim KNOW?
My money’s on the black market. And, even putin is a McGuffin.
“I am surprised you cannot think of answers to your questions yourself? ”
AJ, sorry I took so long to get back, have been logged in, but not “here.” I can think of answers, but I always try to go with what we know first, and not send theories wildly outside known parameters that are dictated by evidence. Given that my parameters are completely dictated by the press, that makes my theories admittedly very limited, but they are usually well within the realm of possibility and out of Ian Fleming territory.
I ask those questions about other hotel staff because the press would definitely catch wind of anyone being tested and contaminated because that’s something that couldn’t be kept secret easily — these people all have family and friends.
Carol, I definitely think there are some MacGuffins and red herrings being tossed out as covers for either smuggling or assassination, but which are they, and tossed by whom — those questions present a whole new kettle of fish.
I am solidly with AJ on finding out where the polonium is, and tracking it down first. To that end, one would reasonably think Russian investigators would also be extremely concerned about that, but they don’t appear to be. Why?
Excellent point. And why have they twice denied Brit authorities the opportunity to invterview Lugovoi whose atty denies he is too ill to be interviewed.
Why, too, did BBC’s transmissions from Moscow get cut off as soon as they began broadcasting about Litvinenko?
just because there is no contaimination on the plane on Nov 1 Germany – London does not mean Kovton was not contaminated before that – maybe he just wasn’t carrying any PO with him and he had showered, wore clean clothes and did not use the BR.
Also regarding carrying a tea cup – In Europe, at the Intercontinental, and various other hotels like the Millenium with club floors I have many times carried a coffee cup from the club lounge to my room – sometimes I was advised against it but allowed anyway, other times nobody noticed or cared. The cup was then picked up by the cleaning staff and carried off with the regular room service tray.
So now we have a chair in Hamburg, a bed in a suburb of Hamburg, and a couch at Boris’ office contaminated -details of the contamination at Litvinenko’s home would be really interesting.
BREAKING NEWS: Scaramella not contaminatedl;
But the Health Protection Agency said further tests showed his levels were less than those from one year’s natural exposure to background radiation in the atmosphere.
http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-12-09T192442Z_01_L09502345_RTRUKOC_0_UK-GERMANY-POISONING.xml&pageNumber=1&imageid=&cap=&sz=13&WTModLoc=NewsArt-C1-ArticlePage1
During the Y2K hysteria, it was reported that during the cold war the Russian had hidden 10 suitcase nuclear bombs in strategic places in the US. and that bin Laden had purchased at least 3 of them for $10 million each. Then we were told not to worry because the triggers were old and and would not work because the materials used would be depleted over time.
Fast forward to 2006. We are told that al Quida already has nuclear bombs smuggled into the US. During Ramadan the nut case Pre, of Iran writes Pres. Bush and “invites” him and the US to convert to Islam. Then all Muslims in the US are told to leave or at least to get out of NYC and Washington DC. Nothing happens.
Now all of a sudden the materials used in the triggers of the old bombs is being found all over Europre. Anyone want to guess where the final destination is supposed to be? This “murder” is a distraction to divert attention from what is going in. If The triggering material makes it’s way from Russia to the US, and one of those Russian suitcase bombs goes off, Putin is going to be a lot deeper in Do do than he is now.