Dec 13 2006
New Clues Emerge In Litvinenko Incident
Two new clues have emerged in the puzzle that is the Litvinenko incident. There are now some vague reports of another Russian of interest associated with Kovtun and his trip to Hamburg from Moscow in October (before Litvinenko fell ill):
An unnamed Russian businessman who flew from Moscow to Hamburg on October 28 with Mr Kovtun is also being sought. Police believe this flight was used to transport polonium-210 into Europe.
There is also another hotel that has tested positive for Polonium-210, which again bolsters the idea this was some sort of large smuggling ring verses some targeted assassination:
In addition, a Swedish couple that had stayed at the Shaftesbury Hotel near Picadilly were Tuesday tested at the oncology unit at Lund University Hospital in southern Sweden, the Stockholm daily Expressen reported.
The hotel room the couple had stayed in apparently had traces of polonium.
Seems like an awefully large group of people for an assassination someone wanted to look like an accident.
Also today, Dmitry Kovtun speaks out and claims Litvinenko was the one who contaminated him, and that it happened on Oct 16-18. This is possible and plausible since Polonium 210 was found at hotels associated with Lugovoi’s visit to London and meetings with Litvinenko. We also have, someplace back in my posts on this subject, I believe Lugovoi’s statement that Litvinenko told him he had poisoned himself before Nov 1st. While it is hard to put much stock in Lugovoi’s word by itself, I find it worth considering since he seems to be a cooperating witness, possibly under a plea agreement.
Update: Both Lugovoi and Kovtun are pointing to Oct 16-18th as the logical (as we all know) first time for Polonium 210 contamination for Litvinenko:
Andrei Lugovoi, a security agent-turned-businessman who met with Litvinenko at a London hotel on Nov. 1, the day Litvinenko suspected he was poisoned, said in an interview with the Moskovsky Komsomolets tabloid that he and Litvinenko were poisoned on Oct. 16.
“Who told you that the contamination took place on Nov. 1? It took place much earlier, on Oct. 16,” Lugovoi was quoted as saying by the paper. Lugovoi is himself undergoing radiation checks in a Moscow clinic.
Litvinenko, 43, a former Russian agent and a Kremlin critic, died Nov. 23 of poisoning from polonium-210.
Lugovoi supported his claim by saying that he and Litvinenko visited a London-based security firm where traces of polonium were later found only in mid-October, but did not go there on Nov. 1, meaning that the contamination couldn’t have taken place on that day.
While Lugovoi is being a bit disingenuous with this logic due to the massive radiation signatures at the Millenium Hotel Room and bar, he is being more accurate than the reporting coming out of the UK media – which has been obsessed with the assassination theory. It should be noted though, that Litvinenko’s final dosage could have been the result of a number of contacts with Polonium-210 which was not being handled properly. He could have been building up his poison levels over many weeks, and received a final larger dose on Nov 1. But I am only pointing this out to show there are lots of reasonable scenarios based on what is known to date. The media has jumped the gun – like usual.
If Litvinenko took a bus to the Millenium Hotel on Nov.1 and it shows no signs of PO, then the following is false,
” Litvinenko was the one who contaminated him, and that it happened on Oct 16-18″
Litvinenko seems to have a very big PO trail after whatever happened in the Millenium Hotel Room and bar.
“so the fact that Kovtun was a chain smoker per der Spiegel would in fact cause higher levels of PO to be picked up in tests than that of a normal person who didn’t smoke or smoked only a little.”
Not to the extent to make hair fall out. People who live in a home built in an area with a lot of natural uranium would have a high polonium content too. It would be “detectible” but that is about it. Natural uranium in soil decays into radon gas. That gas seeps into basements and through slabs into homes. Radon is brought into the lungs and some of it decays into polonium and so that is why you have a high cancer risk with radon gas. Polonium is the natural decay product of radon. Polonium then decays into lead and that is the end of the decay chain.
The levels of contamination being reported would seem much higher than normal smoking. The levels found in Kovtun’s wife, for example, was described as what one would find if she had smoked several packs of cigarettes in a day.
Assume that a “lethal” dose is 1 microgram. A “tolerable” dose is 7 millionths of that (7 picograms … or 7 micro-micro grams). Cigarette smoking would result in a level even lower than that … but the exposure would be chronic over years. But living in a home with a high radon content could be as bad as smoking several packs of cigarettes a day. Polonium is the primary carcinogen in cigarette smoke. Growing tobacco in radon-free soils would go a long way toward reducing the cancer hazard (both primary and “second hand”) from them (or simply storing them in a freezer for a few months before using them would also reduce the hazard … 4 months in the freezer cuts the risk by 50%, 8 months by 75%).
Watching that’s not true: there were times when Kovtov did not leave a trail after being contaminated per the Germans – notably in a restaurant and a gaming house and the plane he took to London from Hamburg. If his clothes were clean that morning and he had taken a shower and he wasn’t carrying the leaky container then he might not have contaminated the seat on the bus.
“If Litvinenko took a bus to the Millenium Hotel on Nov.1 and it shows no signs of PO, then the following is false,”
That is not true. He could have been contaminated on the 16th and not contaminated on the morning of November 1. If he was freshly showered and put on clean clothes fresh from the laundry, he would probably be uncontaminated that morning.
OK if I go back to smoking I’m freezing my cigarets for about a year
Yes, Lizarde1, that would greatly reduce the carcinogenic polonium content of the cigarettes by about 87.5%.
Well that’s good news – the IAEA is reclassifying polonium from “unlikely to be dangerous” to something higher
http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=1852972006
In my game of CLUE. It’s the money. In any and all “rooms.” That was contaminated.
And, Litvenenko used one of the bills to snort cocaine.
And, the “big” terror attack, next time, won’t be a suitcase nuke. None of the imams are willing to handle radioactive stuff; among the usual arsenal of explosive weapons they store in their mosques.
How will the “terror” be distributed? Through ATM machines. IN EUROPE! The money that’s contaminated is in EURO denominations.
And, nobody knows whose plot this is. Except someone whose a billionaire. With access to enough Euro’s that the entire contentent of Europe can become one “big McGuffin.” But not before the Olympics.
Why does “insanity” have such a long period of gestation?
Because the Saudis HAVE NO ARMY. But they own both the NY Times and the Bush administration.
So, there are no adults in charge. REALLY!
“The terrorist threat facing the UK is “very high indeed”, Home Secretary John Reid has said.
He told the GMTV Sunday Programme the chances of an attempted attack over the Christmas period were “highly likely”.
…
Mr Reid said the current UK terror assessment posted on the Government’s Intelligence website was “severe” – the second highest level.”
So the UK is on “orange” alert.
If I understand you all, the problem with the smuggling theory is the same as with the assassination theory.
In both cases, it’s risky and lethally dangerous stuff and, whether smugglers or assassins, both would surely have taken greater care.
So . . . .
1. They were given something, but not told what it was.
2. They weren’t given anything, it was planted.
Both lead to the idea of a set up. But then who would have been most/fatally contaminated at the end of the day is a toss-up.
If everyone else turns out to be in good health, and only Litvinenko has a fatal dose, the scenario immediately looks less accidental.
(Well – to me.)
he’s baaaack:
A Russian reported missing in the complex poisoning case of ex-spy Alexander Litvinenko resurfaced Wednesday, saying in an interview that he is lying low after receiving death threats.
British media have described Yevgeny Limarev, …
International herald Tribune
CP the alert level in the UK hasn’t changed since the critical level was in place for a short time in August
Or they knew what it was but the container was not sealed, or they opened the container for some reason, and the material was in a form that spreads easily (finely milled powder).
If they are finding metallic polonium particles, then I would be convinced it isn’t an assassination nor would it be “marking”. If they are very fine particles of a polonium compound, it could be marking.
“CP the alert level in the UK hasn’t changed since the critical level was in place for a short time in August”
Thanks, I wasn’t aware of that. Just happened to watch a Fox segment that interviewed somone in the UK and seemed to make a point of that.
“I have not vanished at all, I’m still at my house and I never spoke to a journalist from the Times,†Russian Yevgeny Limarev told AFP by telephone.
“If everyone else turns out to be in good health, and only Litvinenko has a fatal dose, the scenario immediately looks less accidental.”
Nobody gives themselves even a non-fatal dose of polonium. You risk giving yourself leukemia or other cancers down the road. Polonium is dangerous at almost any level.
That sounds typical of the media reporting in all of this, Lizarde1. The reporting has been terrible. I suppose they want to crank up the hype to sell papers. Because a Times reporter couldn’t contact him, he must have “disappeared”.
He has police protection. But it’s the French police.
Sanity: German police vowed on Wednesday to examine the validity of comments by a contact of poisoned ex-spy Alexander Litvinenko that he must have picked up traces of polonium from the murdered man when they met in mid-October.
“The validity of the statements is hard to judge,” said Andreas Schoepflin, a spokesman for the Hamburg state criminal investigation office.
http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-12-13T180014Z_01_L13419348_RTRUKOC_0_UK-BRITAIN-POISONING.xml
This sounds like there is a way it can be verified:
The comments by Russian businessman Dmitry Kovtun would be verified in cooperation with British officials, he added.
and from same source above Reuters:
Germany’s Radiation Protection Agency said urine tests showed Kovtun’s ex-wife and her current partner had not absorbed the substances. Test results for their children were not yet available.
“In both tests, there was no indication of assimilation of polonium in connection with the discovered contamination,” the agency said in a joint statement with the Hamburg police, confirming a preliminary assessment.