Dec 13 2006
Some Litvinenko Thoughts
The news on Litvinenko’s death and the Polonium-210 trail has succumbed to the moder Ripper news, so obviously something very quiet is being done behind the scenes or the trail is growing cold. I think it is the former because this quick response by the Germans in response to some possible evidence that Kovtun made a phone call from Berlin during his period in Germany between Moscow and his trip to meet Lugovoi and Litvinenko in London.
I meant to note I find the constantly shifting stories by Lugovoi and Kovtun to be a clear sign they new full well they have been in contact with radiactive material. The tanning salon excuse is just pathetic. I also find their pointing to Oct 16th as possible contamination point telling as well. They knew that their illnesses were due to Polonium 210, but they only realized their problem after Litvinenko fell ill and died. Up until they could not hide the truth anymore (i.e., they needed medical attention) they tried to divert suspicion using one lame excuse after another. But they knew it was Polonium 210.
Add this the fact Berezovsky’s mouthpiece Goldfarb went out of his way to dismiss any idea that Lugovoi and Kovtun could have been involved in the assassination effort and one can see he too was trying to divert attention from them as culprits in Litvinenko’s death. When in reality they represented the best lead to Putin and Russia as part of an assassination effort. Why would Berezovsky/Goldfarb go out of there way to publically vouch for the best supporting evidence of a Russian assassination plot to ever surface? Diversion. Only when it became clearly obvious that Lugovoi was ill did Goldfarb go silent again.
Finally, the delay in questioning Lugovoi could easily be seen as negotiations for a plea agreement. Lugovoi has been giving the public perception he is working for investigators on this case, and investigators are not out denying anything. We still have this mysterious fourth contaminated hotel out there, and we have police backing away from the poisoned tea cup theory. I would not be surprised if within a few days we see some sweeping actions by authorites. Then again, I would not be surprised to see nothing new happening for days on end as well. My latest musings for all to rip apart at their leisure!
Sue – Yep the Chechnyan’s should be P/O’d with him as well.
I believe there is plethora of duplicity in the Russia/Chechnya relationship. I don’t think I can trust what the Chechnyan’s say, or the Russians. I think the investigators to this crime are running into some of that. I think som Chechnyan supporters are talking out both sides of their mouth – and I think the Russians are doing likewise. Is it driven by money – perhaps. Is it driven by nationalism-perhaps.
It makes it very hard to believe any one – including the posioned victim. But IMO – the Kremlin are the masters of disinformation. And of course our very own MSM. :0)
For some reason, the victim is the person I least believe. I’m sure it will all be figured out eventually. Whether we learn anything about it though will be an entirely different matter. They may keep the results close as they did when they released 2 supposed assassins. Kind of convenient, though, wouldn’t you say? That story 3 years ago? Things that make you go…hmmm…
That story really bugs me. You have Sasha actually entrapping these guys it looks like. Guys he apparently recognized from the FSB. And they are just let go. Weirdness.
“mariposa – thanks! I guess I miss crosspatch? who took the anti anti Putin side of things – I left the Free Republic discussion of this early on because it was all Putin bashing all the time – I’m into the mystery of it and the consequences for terrorism and trying to figure out what really happened and I guess I am in the smugglers camp!”
I don’t like Putin at all, but try not to let that sway me from participating in discussions of evidence and reasonable analysis. The smuggling theory is not only reasonable and likely, staying on top of it is probably the smartest way for a country to proceed to best protect all its citizens.
Enlightened, I agree, it seems at times like every side hides their most important agendas — the way of the world.
That is an understatement. And Russia not seeming to care they were let go.
Enlightened:”Well I must admit the article from 2003 re: Litvinenko averting a Putin assassination has thrown me. I don’t get why he would protect Putin – an apparent arch enemy – and then 3 years later accuse him of his own murder. ”
Zakayev turned them in, too.
Maybe it’s because they are for Chechen indepdendence but not for Chechen terrorism and perahps as well, they figured it was a set up to discredit them and perhaps keep the Brits from granting their amnesty and citizenship efforts.
Why did the Brits let the 2 provocateurs off? Probably because they were FSB agents and that’s the way it goes unless they are caught spying in the UK in which case a trade is attempted.
Thanks for the link, Mariposa.
According to data gathered by Levada Center pollsters, few Russians (4%) believe that Alexander Litvinenko was killed for the sake of creating tension in Russia to make it possible for Russian President Vladimir Putin to serve a third term. Hardly more (5%) believe that he was killed to compromise Putin personally. No there is no dominant opinion on the matter among the public. The most common suggestions is that Litvinenko was killed by his “business partners.†That explanation was supported by 20 percent in the poll conducted December 8-12. Another 15 percent suspect Boris Berezovsky of the crime, 10 percent suspect the Russian special services, 8 percent suspect the special services of other countries and 8 percent think that Litvinenko was poisoned accidentally while carrying the Polonium-210.
Lizarde – of course that is what they believe since that is what they are being spoonfed in the Russian media.
They were even told in the beginning that it was a CIA plot.
I don’t get why he would protect Putin – an apparent arch enemy – and then 3 years later accuse him of his own murder. There’s something hinky there.
Did I read the article right? It sounded like in the end it was suspected that the 2 he turned in were really FSB seeking to implicate Lit and mainly Boris in assignation attempt and the Chechen leader quoted at the very end — as a stupid attempt
– much like this current and possibly the ones trying to hoc a dirty bomb in 2002.
TS9 – The article is disturbing to say the least. It portrays Litvinenko in a very different light, and he comes across as a liar – he could not be against Putin in 1999, for him in 2003, and against him again in 2006. Literally he could, people do change their minds – but I highly doubt it.
So what gives? What is the link to the triumvirate of Litvinenko/Putin/Chechnya and why did Lit die because of it?
That article from 2003 leads me to believe that Sasha was playing both sides. I think he really p/o’d people on both sides. It may have been greed. I still don’t think it was smuggling. I think he thought he was the man with the power. If he actually thwarted a Putin assassination – the Chechnyans he allegedly supported would be livid. If he actually thwarted the Putin assassination – then why was he so publicly critical of Putin, and why would he then accuse him of murdering him?
I’m thinking he might just have been some kind of double agent. But I do not think there is an Israeli connection. Nevzlin lives there – that’s about it.
“DEBKAfile’s intelligence sources add that the Russian ex-spy is believed to have been a double agent, who sold trade secrets to different parties in and outside Russia, among them some of the Russian oligarchs living in exile in the West. Livinenko served as a colonel in a Russian Federal Security Services unit which investigated and carried out special operations against businessmen. ”
http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/153
Something else from the IHT article TopsecretK9 linked:
“In London, a British government scientist who spoke in return for anonymity because he was not authorized to talk to reporters said this week that Litvinenko ingested too much polonium to be able to survive from mid-October to Nov. 1, as the Russian businessmen suggested.”
I think that’s right, Jerry. I think L and K pointed to Oct 16 only because they need some explanation for the PO found in Germany tracked to that date.
Hmmmm. Another poisoning. The Chechnyan acting President and Prime Minister – a vocal supporter of the Kremlin. One month before Litvinenko “thwarted” an assassination on Putin.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/09/29/wchech29.xml
enlightened..I don’t see anything untoward about a man who turned against Putin turning in people who tried to engage him in an assassination plot against Putin.
To All,
Again my apologies for not commenting on the comments – literally no time to read all this good stuff, let alone respond. But I will try and help some folks out with two questions.
First the timing of reports. The only way to know the order of the original story (e.g., Kovtun’s family hospitalized) is to literally go back in the google story list for days and see when the first AP or wire service story hit. The US papers can be days in posting news. That is why you see a story hit now that is actually a very delayed copy of a story that broke hours or days earlier. I have been focusing on European outlets to avoid this problem.
Second, TSK9 asked why I was firm on my smuggling angle. Simple, I have never bought into it. You can go back to the first posts and you will see I smelled a disinformation campaign by Livtinenko and Berezsovsky. My first inkling was the PR firm brought in to take the now infamous picture and Goldfarb flying into London to handle the media. At this stage I started making predictions on what would transpire if this was a smuggling accident. My first prediction was this would lead to Berezovsky because he was the one who hired the PR firm. I was proven right. I have throughout this made more predictions – most if not all have come true.
The deal is the smuggling angle is true and all the evidence points to it. The assassination theory includes smuggling a step, but there has been no evidence at all of an assassination beyond the claims. As everyone knows the assassination theory has a lot of wild claims in it to dismiss clear indications of a smuggling accident. These include the earlier trails of Polonium at numerous locations in London (now up to four), the massive amounts of a rare and unstable and expensive material, the various other easier options, the fact Polonium 210 doesn’t ‘silence’ its target, and the way the trail was created (particles on people verses Polonium escreting from inside people).
So I while the evidence may seem conflicting it is not. There has never been any evidence of an assassination, except Litvinenko’s death and his proclamation (which was held until after his death and which looks like a desparate diversion effort). OK – that is why I have never waivered.
They might have just found the teacup that Litvinenko had handled and the 7 contaminated workers might simply have been smokers for all I know.
This is a non issue, the British and the EU are way ahead of the curve in the PC it’s almost illegal to smoke in your own house. Smoke filled bars are so yesterday over there.
Merlin:”This is a non issue, the British and the EU are way ahead of the curve in the PC it’s almost illegal to smoke in your own house. Smoke filled bars are so yesterday over there. ”
I thought so, too, but perhaps there is an exemption for hotel bars because L said he didn’t pay much attention to the conversation inn the bar he was paying more attention to his cigar.
BTW,
I released a lot of large good comments from moderation purgatory so I suggest people scan back through this thread to see if they missed something. I cannot turn off the spam filters because we are getting hammered right now. Posts will pop on the list in the time order they were written, not when I release them. So they go right into the time sequence. Trust me, you don’t want to see the spam commments!
AJStrata