Dec 15 2006
Lugovoi Definitely Berezovsky Ally
I was going to add this in a long line of comments to answer someone’s question, and decided to make a post for everyone to find. Lugovoi was definitely an ally of Berezovsky’s – so the assassination theory seems a little more stretched than it was before. And it explains why Goldfarb first tried to divert suspicion from Lugovoi. Now that Lugovoi is a participating witness (prossibly under a plea agreement) Berezvosky’s mouth piece is having to change tactics. Looks like everyman is now out for themselves in a battle that could put someone away for life. I am wondering more and more whether the Litvinenko incident and the spat of killings is really the preparation for some kind of coup d’etat in Russia.
I guess i am thinking along the lines that it was someone other than Lugovoi becuase he had his children in the same room.
And now..re the reports in the Russian press deflecting blame on others and slandering Litvinenko:
“Russian gas monopoly Gazprom, which is extorting equity from Shell, Mitsui and Mitsubishi in the Sakhlin 2 LNG project, is also buying up large parts of the Russian press.
The Editor’s Web Log quoted AFP in April:
Russia’s state controlled gas giant Gazprom is set to increase its control over the country’s media through the potential purchase of Komsomolskaya Pravda, the paper with the largest circulation; 817 000 copies daily in 2004 (statistic from World Press Trends 2005). Gazprom, however, would not confirm this report. The company is also rumoured to be considering buying the broadsheet Kommersant. The Russian government has been criticised for using Gazprom as a means to tighten its control over the media. For example, last June it bought a large percentage of shares of the independent newspaper Izvestia (see previous posting). This past weekend Russia saw protests precisely against state interference in the media sector (see previous posting).”
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2006/12/gazprom_buying_into_pravda.html
Going back to the thread’s premise, I think Lugovoi is now, first and foremost, Lugovoi’s guy.
To that end, when Berezovsky was in power in Russia, Lugovoi had a foot in Berezovsky’s camp. On the other hand — and I could be way off here — I don’t think he would turn on his country. The Limonov interview supplied by copydude yesterday contained some very interesting stuff about Lugovoi’s time in prison. (And copydude, you always know where all the bodies are buried — where do you find your information?) It was a difficult read due to the translation, but I have wondered what the rest of you thought of it, if you read it.
But I agree with CP that Lugovoi had more on the ball in his “security career” than either Kovtun or Litvinenko — his assignments more prestigious, his communication skills and comfort level in international business is more honed and professional than the other two.
Lizarde, the question of his involvement in a plot, and bringing his children, has bothered me. I have some ideas about it, but they are altogether nothing more than the rest of my post: conjecture.
I’m coming to believe we will hear more about this case, but nothing will ever be definitively wrapped up.
“I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key. That key is Russian national interest.” — Churchill
PO 210 was never a black market product – until now. Meaning no one (ie: dirty bombers) knew its capabilities prior to – now.
PO 210 is extremely high priced, and we have been told this particular amount in this particular incident was worth between $25 to $ 50 Mil
If this was a smuggling ring – there absolutely, positively had to be a BUYER.
The buyer of this product had to know what PO 210 is and what they wanted to use it for. If they did not know that – why were they willing to pay MILLIONS for something they knew nothing about? Was the buyer just a stupid moron with extra cash? If they were that stupid, the seller could have sold them sugar crystals in a radioactive marked vial – how would the buyer know he got PO 210? Would he sniff it? Did he have a meter reader to detect alpha emitters? Would he taste it? How the hell would the buyer know what he was buying if he knew nothing about PO 210? And was the buyer stupid enough to receive the product personally, so that in the event the deal goes bad they can trace it right back to him? No – he had to have a transporter/courier.
Assuming the buyer was not a stupid moron with extra cash, we then need to assume the reverse – they are not stupid, but well informed about the product they were purchasing. So take that a step further – why the hell did a well informed buyer, willing to pay up to $50 Mil for this product, not go the extra mile and buy a million dollar container to make sure the product he is purchasing, which appears to be worth more than anything in the world – granule for granule – is completely fail safe? According to the Smugglers Gulchers – the container used was no better than a leaky tupperware container. It leaked all over the UK.
Let’s take it a step further. We got the intelligent, well informed buyer of $25-50 million of granules of a radioactive substance that did not have it packaged correctly, and then compounded that mistake by hiring either a broker/transporter or broker/courier that also knew not a damn thing about PO 210.
So we have this deal going down worth MILLIONS, and the buyer apparently is not concerned by the fact that the product might not even reach him or the end users due to the bumbling idiots he used to transport it in a leaky unsealed container, and the buyer is not even aware it might be sugar and he just got swindled out of millions.
And not only that, the buyer COULD have gone to Iran or even Pakistan wherein the notorious Khan nuclear black market is still alive and kicking, is very well funded and do not have a record of hiring bumbling morons to deliver a multi million dollar package – less one human life, and perhaps part or all of the sought product.
That is what we must believe if this was a accidental posioning by a botched delivery of PO 210 during a smuggling operation.
I can’t for the life of me figure out how anyone can keep going down that path.
Mariposa could you pls provide the link about Lugovoi’s prison time, I am drowning in links at the moment…
tks
Gotta, yes, I’ll go back to the other thread and hunt it from copydude’s post. Sorry I didn’t link it before.
Enlightened the problem is that the same problem that confronts the smugglerers confronts the assassiners. In fact for the assassins it’s worse: Why would anyone use $25 million of PO to kill someone? Why would the assassins not use the perfect container?
And as I mentioned in a comment yesterday, remember, some “experts” (or one at least) thought that PO would be safe in a knotted baggie.
I think there is at least a 90% chance that through incompetence and / or ignorance there was an accident, or accidental leakage. And that is as true of the assassination scenario as it is of the smuggling scenario.
Clarice – I wondered about the intial responses from the Kremlin re Litvinenko.
First they denied he was even poisoned.
Then they suggested he poisoned himself.
Putin even remarked that he could not have been assassinated because he did not die a “violent” death.
They implied he was not “important” enough or big enough so-to-speak to be assassinated.
And then have been discrediting him at every turn since then.
So I wonder – If he was not “important” why didn’t they just say “We are sorry that Sasha has died and we pary for his family and friends” (or something of that nature) and then just – shut up? Why do they feel the need to keep denigrating a dead man?
Okay, here goes.
As copydude pointed out, this was written by dissident “Eduard Limonov, who once shared the same Lefortovo jail as Lugovoy, [and] recalls that Lugovoy had been used in the past for provocation – setting people up – and gives an example.”
Litvinenko: A Very Public ExecutionLitvinenko: A Very Public Execution
http://www.exile.ru/2006-December-01/litvinenko_a_very_public_execution.html
Thanks Mariposa, I’ll give it a look.
Jeez. No buyer – no value. And just for the record, most black market sellers don’t take Visa. Or monthly payments. Or 250 $100K increments to 250 different banks.
You have no money trail and you have no buyer and you have a worthless product that is now contained in Sashas dead body.
I have a problem believing that Putin is the architect mainly because
I doubt Sasha had info that would discredit Putin so gravelly as to bring him down. He would need audio or video of a highly persuasive nature to accomplish that. I think Putin knows that he did not have that.
I do however think that Putin knew Sasha was going down and did nothing to stop it (unlike Sasha who apparently did that for him)
Enlightened
Why would they play hearts and flowers over his death? He had been trashing them for years. They are probably not sorry he is dead. Ask yourself. If someone had spread tales about you whether true or not would you cry when they died. What if they wrecked your life, your marriage, had your children taken from you because of their tales would you cry when they died. No you would feel enormous relief. This isn’t as far fetched as it sounds because this has happened many times to people. But as far as Russia goes, I doubt if they cared at all.
M- From your link, I think that does in fact get supported by the incident in 2003 – It appears Litvinenko turned in a FSB colleague – add that to the list of FSB grievances against him. I really do think he was assassinated for a double cross somewhere along the line.
Barb – I don’t think the Kremlin cared one whit for him – which is why I find it strange that they continue to denigrate him – he’s dead? Why keep beating the dead horse? (No pun intended)
Clarice
The fallacy of your argument about the reason polonium was found in room 411 is that in that case Litvinenko would know who killed him. He stayed alive to name everyone involved. He evidently didn’t do this. If someone asked me to come into their parlor (oops) room for tea and when I refused they then went up to their room and I had tea with them and got sick they would be the first people I would suspect. If someone is frantically trying to remember where they could have been poisoned they would not overlook this incident if it happened.
Well, I wrote ‘short of cash Sasha’ – and many stories suggest he was off Boris’ pension.
Kovtun also said in the Spiegel interview he was not doing well and envious of Kovtun’s life-style.
But, from the Sushi bar girl:
“We noticed him because he was so expensively dressed. Everything was Armani or some other designer.
“He always had wads of cash in his wallet and seemed very wealthy.
“Me and the other girls talked about him. We wondered what he did because he was so secretive and had so much money.â€
I suppose being short of money is relative?
It was rumoured he was paid 1.5 million by Berezovsky to stage the press conference back in the ’90s accusing the FSB of a planned hit on Berezovsky.
Funny, both Scaramella and Kovtun flew to meet him on budget airlines. (Easy Jet and German Wings.)
Can anyone give support to this statement?
Quote: ” Since the 19th century it has been customary for blood enemies in the Caucasus to poison each other with polonium-210.”
It’s from a Julia Latynina opinion piece in the St Petersburg Times, December 8.
Apologies if it has been raised before. First I’ve noticed it.
Barb – I find it very strange the Litvinenko did not assume Lugovoi or Kovtun had a part in this – he had time to name them as suspects if he thought they were involved.
He had time to name anyone that looked suspicious to him – he didn’t. As far as we know – he named Putin, and by association anyone that would have carried it out on Putin’s behalf.
That is strange. In hindsight he MUST have remembered something not quite right – yes?
So this leads me to believe that Lugovoi and Kovtun – if involved – did not act strangely in any way that alerted Litvinenko. Weird.
Did a whole black-marketeering ring get blown up, or what?
Greed. And, stupidity. Were used to play their part.
Could it end up being traced back to an accident?
And, what about STOPPING the Imams from wanting any part of nuke suitcases in their midst? They didn’t even want Litvenenko’s body, wrapped in its casket, for as long as it takes to do the “dearly departed” ceremony.
With enough McGuffins to keep various countries giving “trips” to its detectives. Not bad work, if ya can get it!