Dec 15 2006
Lugovoi Definitely Berezovsky Ally
I was going to add this in a long line of comments to answer someone’s question, and decided to make a post for everyone to find. Lugovoi was definitely an ally of Berezovsky’s – so the assassination theory seems a little more stretched than it was before. And it explains why Goldfarb first tried to divert suspicion from Lugovoi. Now that Lugovoi is a participating witness (prossibly under a plea agreement) Berezvosky’s mouth piece is having to change tactics. Looks like everyman is now out for themselves in a battle that could put someone away for life. I am wondering more and more whether the Litvinenko incident and the spat of killings is really the preparation for some kind of coup d’etat in Russia.
its a good idea Got To Know, I would like to take part.
Likbez that’s what I mean, exactly. Hopefully Crosspatch’s theory is correct, and on balance I think it’s more probable. But for the past few days I have gotten a queasy feeling–literally–that Russia is behind this, that the Cold War is heating up. It could be more and more like WWII and the Axis Powers–not friends, but serving each others’ interests.
Iran, or AQ, becomes a Russian proxy, and Putin keeps plausible denial.
Whose dacha was that where Spiegel did the interview? Kovtun’s? How does one go from a wannabe wheeler dealer in Hamburg who is waiting on tables and living on welfare in an inexpensive flat go to owning a country house in Russia?
Tempester, great, I know Clarice is in as well. I will try to do something in bullet form, over the weekend, unless someone else would like to.
It would be a draft, something people could throw darts at.
enlightened:” If he was not “important†why didn’t they just say “We are sorry that Sasha has died and we pary for his family and friends†(or something of that nature) and then just – shut up? Why do they feel the need to keep denigrating a dead man? ”
Why, indeed? Because they are spreading red herrings all over the place and the gull(ed) is gobbling it up.
Litvinenko saved the life of Berezovsky , Berezovsky, a fabulously rich man owned the house Litvinenko lived in. If you were fabulously rich and someone saved your life, wouldn’t you think a lifetime free rent was a small price to pay? I would. (Asked the oligarchs who were less lucky.)
CP, I think the implicatication was that it was Lugovoi’s — because his wife was there, but the interview didn’t really say as far as I recall. Other reports in the press have said Lugovoi has an expensive home “outside Moscow.”
Clarice,
“you were fabulously rich and someone saved your life, wouldn’t you think a lifetime free rent was a small price to pay?”
No. That’s why normal people seldom can became famously rich :-).
Gotta Know, that’s a great idea.
Great, Mariposa, I look forward to working on it together.
It seems to me that a timeline is the best format, at least for now, it would be difficult to draft some sort of a diagram at this point.
I’d like to get AJ’s input, before going too far.
Any other thoughts, fellow detectives?
“I’d like to get AJ’s input, before going too far.
Any other thoughts, fellow detectives?”
If AJ goes for the “Just the Facts” idea for a thread, maybe he would consider setting up two threads — one for hashing out what we all decide the facts are, and the other for compiling those “Facts.”
Does that sound like a logical way to organize this?
From the various reports about Litvinenko, I am building a picture of a man who may not have been so motivated by money. He may have been a little idealistic and maybe a bit naive. but I believe this type of person can be dangerous and considered ‘a loose cannon’.
If you look at the difference between Litvinenko and Lugovoy, Lugovoy’s family appear to have been part of the establishment and his education geared towards the military/civil service.
I will be traveling and unable to do much with the gathering of the links.
I suggest you do it by subject–i.e., reports of Litvinenko’s death and the trails in London: Kovtun’s trail in Germany; background of principal characters; the investigation in Germany/Russia/the UK–in other words in a format you’d use if you were writing a summary of the case.
Sounds good to me, Mariposa. Then we could carry forward the “Facts” on a daily or near-daily basis.
On the Litvinenko personality profile, he does seem like a loose cannon, a bit emotional, in some sense a failure although he had a few accomplishments. I can see that he could be considered dangerous, someone who knew too much and might be tempted to blab.
Tempester,
“I believe this type of person can be dangerous and considered ‘a loose cannon’.”
I believe the same. Especially dangerous if this cannon directed against you. And can never predict were loose canon is directed , right ? That ‘s might make Berezovsky still a player. Extortion attempt against former patron does not make patron happy, does it
There is something from Shakespeare tragedies in all this mess: extremely greedy patron, attack dog servant who desperately needs money, a PR men, a merchant from Venice 🙂
Likbez what do you think about Putin’s Russia being a “happy government?”
One comment on the combined smuggling-assassination theory that has been suggested: If you were smuggling Polonium, would you kill with it too?
good point, no you wouldn’t
That would indicate, it’s either an accident, or someone else with access to the Po, perhaps the persons purchasing, used it on the smugglers.
Gotta Know,
I assume that you mean “happy country” instead of “happy government”…
I actually have no clue. And Web does not help much despite the fact that I know the language. What I know is that Russia was in such terrible shape when Putin came to power that I doubt that it recovered in a few years. Clinton was really stupid in this area, much more then with famous blue dress.
So I guess most people are unhappy, especially outside the capital and few big cities that have closer links with West like St Petersburg. It looks like it became more like a Latin American country with an extremely rich elite and a very poor population: I noticed that now Russia has some percentage of hungry children in one recent UN report. As assume you can think Brazil as a close example…
But what is clear is that Putin somewhat stopped the economic rape of Russia. I actually posted a coupe of quotes in prev. discussion (one in dupes, sorry about it — the system was malfunctioning) that are relevant to this theme.
And those who feel comfortable under Eltsin gangster capitalism like Berezovsky probably do not like that. Klebnikov’s book can give some necessary perspective.
On the other side it is naive not to expect some backlash for the corporations which got into Russia under Eltsin (or bought corporations which got first like is the case with Shell and Amoco).
What really bothering me a bit is extremely low level, unprofessional and naive coverage of events about this country in mainstream press. Grey Lady is a nice example here. It really can lead us in wrong direction. You really need to take everything with a grain of salt but this is impossible I know. So we all are brainwashed 🙁
The only reason I would kill with polonium if I were smuggling it would be if I knew the stuff had contaminated me or others and needed to justify the existance of polonium without fingering me for smuggling.
Something like this:
I suspect I have contaminated myself and possibly my family with polonium. I really want to get them to the doctor. The first question they are going to ask is “where did this polonium come from?”. About the only place polonium is made is in Russia and why would the Russian government use such a valuable commodity (they make a lot of money selling that stuff to the US, the dose to Litvinenko represents the loss of $25 million in sales to the US if the Russians did it). Some people might believe the Russians would use such a thing to kill Litvinenko, so they poison Sasha to make it look like the Russians did it, then they can go to the doctor and claim they were contaminated in the course of the Litvinenko murder. What they didn’t count on was the fact that they were leaving a trail of polonium for weeks.
Or:
Boris decided to make the Russians look really bad, Litvineko is becoming a pain in the hips. He decides to have Litinenko wacked with polonium making it look like the Russians did it. Again, didn’t count on the leaving of the trail of polonium for weeks beforehand.
I don’t believe the polonium trail is intentional. I believe it is accidental and is the thing that will eventually bring them down.