Dec 17 2006
Muslim Civil War
The liberal media and many on the left think the US is responsible for all the bloodshed that is rocking the Muslim world in the Middle East, but that is a very naive point of view. The fact is that since 9-11, when the US went on the offensive, the Muslim and Arab communities have been facing some stark choices and making decisions. From Beirut and Palestine, to Iraq, to Afgahnistan and Pakistan there has been expanding and pivotal civil war erupting slowly between moderate Muslims and Islamo Fascists. Originally the fighting was against forces aligned with the West (e.g., Iraq and Afghancoalition forces, Israel, Egypt, Jordan, etc.). But that was only one front. The other front was the moderates muslims – which does include Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Turkey, etc. As the Islamo Fascist suffered defeat after defeat against the military forces of the US and our Western allies, the fighting has turned into multi-fronted civil war within the Muslim and Arab communities. This is clearly seen in today’s incidents in the Palestinian territories.
Gunmen fired two mortar bombs at Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas’s office in Gaza on Sunday, wounding at least five members of his personal guard as tensions with the ruling Hamas movement threatened to boil over.
Foreign Minister Mahmoud al-Zahar, a senior Hamas leader, accused Abbas’s forces of attempting a “military coup” in Gaza after they overran two ministries under the control of the Islamists. Zahar demanded the security men leave the ministries or else be arrested, a move that could provoke further violence.
“What is happening is a real military coup, assassinations, attempted assassinations, the occupation of headquarters and ministries,” Zahar told a news conference.
Contrary the the media’s distorted view of the world, this is what is needed and what we want. We want the broader Muslim communities to reject the extremists. We want the Islamo Fascists removed from power and lcoked up in jail (if not simply exterminated). We want the ME to make the decision to be free and open and democratic and reject Bin Laden and his ilk. And this act of defiance will be bloody and hard fought. There is no other way to deal with such a cancer as the suicide driven religous zealots. They must be excised, and they will not go quietly or willingly. And we cannot affort to back away from the field of battle right now as this next stage takes place. If there is a way to shorten this struggle it is to stand by the moderates as they throw off the cancer in their midst. We need to cover their backs and help them stand up to these voilent and brutal people. Redeployment is the worst thing to do right now.
A lot of people on the internet have said that all muslims are terrorists. That is a fallacy. There are a lot muslims who want to live in peace. Here in this country last year an ex-GI of muslim religion turned in an extremist who approached him and helped set him up for the authorities to prove his guilt. And the latest home grown terrorist was turned in by a fellow muslim and also lured him on to prove his guilt. It would be dangerous for a muslim to speak out openly against the jihadists. It would be like signing your own death warrant. No, not all muslims are terrorists by a long shot, but it is difficult to tell which ones are terrorists and that is the problem.
“The liberal media and many on the left think the US is responsible for all the bloodshed that is rocking the Muslim world”
Yeah, I want them to explain exactly how the US is responsible for the bloodshed in Bangladesh or Thailand.
I agree that this struggle is going to be bloody and we should not be afraid of it. The more bloody it gets the moderate governments will be forced to make a stand, and say what is is to be a moderate government. I think this is why the Hezabolla/Israel conflict was handled so badly. If Israel had been able to squash Hezabolla a real discussion could have followed. The world stood up and stopped it before Hezabolla could be finished off. The next time they will be more lethal, and even more will die. By being in Iraq helps the world focus on who the bad guys are and who they are aligned with. If these groups and not eliminated now there will be an all out Sunni/ Shea war. There may be one anyway. 911 was the end of the stability doctrine, The left in this country are trying like mad to pretend that we can go back to it. They don’t realise that Al Quada, Hamas, Hezbolla, and the others will not allow us or any one else go back. The President realised this, and has gotten nothing but grief for it. But as he said to lead is to make hard decisions, those decisions take a country with an intrenched policy in a new direction. The past is gone, people had better get over it, next time 3,000 people dead will look like a cake walk.
Yeah,
I was disappointed that Israel was not allowed to finish off Hezbollah. You would think that this would be in the best interests of the whole world, but the Israelis let the media buzz stop them. I wonder when the Israelis will realize that there is no way they can win with the media. The media are totally against them and for the terrorists. They just need to do what has to be done and pay no attention to the media or the left and stop all this blather about collateral damage. The collateral damage from now on will be a whole lot worse because of their interference. And unfortunately the collateral damage may be us.
While Israel didn’t finish Hezbollah, I believe overall the impact was negative for Hezbollah. The economic price paid in the Shiite region was enormous. Even if Iran sends money to rebuild, restock, and rearm, that is another economic drain on Iran.
The number of businesses demolished, trucks destroyed, agricultural crops ruined will result in further economic setbacks in the Shiite areas and a corresponding loss of economic power. Basically the Shiites have been made even poorer than they already were. While they might attempt to turn it into some kind of political victory, one can not eat words. Words do not keep your children warm in winter nor do they provide an education for them.
It has resulted in the Shiite community being more dependent than ever on Iranian charity and has chipped away at their standing within Lebanon. On the other hand, Christian, Druze, and Sunni areas were relatively unscathed. The other side of the coin is that relative to the Shiites, those groups have been advanced in their share of the economic pie in Lebanon. I would venture to say that there is a smaller percentage of Shiite trucks moving freight, there is a smaller percentage of Shiite grown fruits and vegetables in the markets (much of the apple crop, for example, was destroyed or rendered unharvestable). The full economic impact of the war will not be felt until spring.
So basically what has happened is that the group who started the war has been set back economically. It doesn’t take too many iterations of that for a culture to demand that the war mongers stop. Peaceful communities find their relative economic power increased, belligerent communities find their relative economic power diminished.
The Shiite ares might rebuild but at a high cost to Iran. All the while, business as usual continues in the Christian, Druze, and Sunni areas of Lebanon. Hezbollah might have won a victory of rhetoric, but that is going to wear thin after a while. The economic toll will become a more dominant issue as time passes.
The recent elections in Iran might also put more pressure at that side of the equation to spend more resouces on Iran’s own economy and not so much on repairing a foreign infrastructure that is now broken through its own meddling.
It’s a post like this from Strata which makes my visits worthwhile, so do I enjoy seeing his political world unravel while he alternates between dsmay at the retreat, oblivion toward it and misplaced confidence. All of course owing to a view of the world both misconceived and arrogant, that is, typically American.
“As the Islamo Fascist suffered defeat after defeat against the military forces of the US and our Western allies, the fighting has turned into multi-fronted civil war within the Muslim and Arab communities. ”
The word itself is a stilted misnomer guaranteeing the user doesn’t know what he’s talking about-which here is shown by the fact it is the US which is defeated, irreversibly, in Iraq, and the Taliban which is on the rebound in Afghanistan. The US and Israel are responsible
for internecine conflict among Palestinians because of their
treatment of the latter ,stretched to the breaking point. However
al Qaeda has inched toward Israel which is still reeling from its defeat in Lebanon at the hands of the same Hezbollah which is resurging there and which has checkmated Bush’s foundering plans to turn
Lebanon into a US puppet by also chasing Syria out.
Speaking of Syria, Assad with Hezbollah and Iran holds the ace cards, as the Baker Group understands–quite a feat for the optometrist who was said by people like Strata to be on his way out a year ago.
Negotiate, Strata, or sink further into the mire of defeat!
Crosspatch
“It has resulted in the Shiite community being more dependent than ever on Iranian charity and has chipped away at their standing within Lebanon.”
Iran can afford it, O-I-L,— and more Christians have rallied to Hezbollah’s side via Gen.Aoun and Frangeih’s militias due to the Zionist war atrocities,many in Christian areas. You’re simply completely wrong about Hezbollah’s status in Lebanon and they have already re-armed better than ever!
Barbara & Kathie
Stand with albatross Israel, sink with it.
Thanks Ken, I’ll stand with Israel any day of the week. When the Arab’s stand with the Palestinians then I will think about their plight.
What have the Palestinians done with their lives other then hate the Jews? Not much! Just watch what they think about each other, I’m thinking not much either and the rate that they kill one another. What a depressing state these hate mongers find themselves in.
“Iran can afford it, O-I-L”
Not really. Iran’s oil production has been dropping and it lacks refining capacity to handle domestic needs. It imports quite a bit of refined petroleum products. Iran is expected to become a net oil importer soon.
Iran has a lot of natural gas, though. And even that isn’t working out well either since India has discovered huge offshore gas fields. Iran was going to build a pipeline across Pakistan to India to supply it with gas but now it looks like India might not need it and may itself become a net exporter of gas.
Note: by “soon” I ment that at current rates of oil production decline in Iran, it would be a net importer in 2013 according to one article I read and liked to, I believe, in a previous thread here in the past month but can’t locate at the moment.
http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=8509260493
note increasing Russian-Iranian economic ties. Face it,
Bush has united a grand Russ-China-Iranian axis against the
retreating US.
Ken maybe YOU didn’t know that Russia, China and Iran were aligned and have been for many years, don’t bet that the White House didn’t know.
Dear Ken
Eating crow is hard, isn’t it? But don’t worry, you will soon get used to the taste.
You have finally come out and shown your true colors. We now know you are not an America Firster. Actually, you are the first person I have ever heard use that phrase which isolated you from the beginning. Most of us are Republican, Democrat, Libertarian or Green parties and that is how we identify our political preferences. In fact, I have long doubted you are even an American. The hatred you show for all things American proves that you are, on the contrary, an American hater. I don’t know or care what nationality or religion or cult you belong to and for you to say anything said on this site makes it worthwhile for you to come is a fallacy. It is never worthwhile to read anything you post.
Barbara
“True (America First) colors” are festooned by those who believe
in a republic not an empire, as did Washington and the founders.
America can lose the empire and retain the nation. I have no
fear of a Russia-China-Iranian axis invading America, only
reducing the size of the “world policemans” sphere of overweening influence. Of course there were patriotic well-meaning Russians
who also believed that losing their empire would mean losing
Russia as well, which turned out not to be the case. I will
let your confusion pass from a similar vantage.
There is an America First Party which can be googled, but it
however is too small as of the moment for me to identify myself
explicitly with it. Most likely the party which eventually restores the republic has not been formed as of yet.
Ken
Are you speaking of anarchy? I wondered at one time if you are a nihilist but you are so over the top on just about everything I couldn’t be sure. But anarchy? And you say there is a party forming with people just like you? God help us all.
Pasted excerpt from John Bender’s recent article at Etherzone.
After dismissing the first parts of Cythia McKinney’s impeachment
bill he writes:
“However, McKinney finally stumbles on an impeachable offence in Article III. The bill states in part: “… by circumventing the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act courts established by Congress, whose express purpose is to check such abuses of executive power, provoking the presiding judge of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court to file a complaint and another judge to resign in protest, the said program having been subsequently ruled illegal; he has also concealed the existence of this unlawful program of spying on American citizens from the people and all but a few of their representatives in Congress, even resorting to outright public deceit.†Most legal scholars agree that Bush’s warrantless eavesdropping program is not just an impeachable offence, but a felony as well. “
Ken
On the contrary FISA infringes on the president’s executive power that the Constitution gives him.
Cynthis McKinney is a nut of the far, far left. Probably you met her at the junction between extreme left and extreme right. You do inhabit that sphere, do you no?
Not really true, Ken.
There is currently an Iran/Syria/North Korea/Venezuela axis in the making. In order to keep us in check, Russia has a certain advantage in supporting opposition to us. This causes us to expend resources without Russia having to directly expend resources herself. In other words, without anything to keep us in check, we would swamp the globe with our economy.
China doesn’t really play into it because China is more tied to the US economically. We are each other’s biggest trading partners. China just bought several AP1000 reactors from Westinghouse on Friday, for example. The AP1000 is a fine reactor, by the way, and we should be building some here. But China does have an interest in keeping us in check so will be a source of resistance to our policies in world politics when they can get away with it. China sees us as an economic competitor in many markets, particularly for raw materials, rather than a partner.
Russia is attempting to allow Iran to influence the spread of Shiite Islam to check the dominance of militant Sunnis. The reason for Russian/Iranian cooperation at the moment is one of mutual conveniance for the two countries involved. Iran has something Russia wants (well, two things actually) … Shia Islam and middle eastern ports to do oil exchange deals (Russia “sells” oil to a foreign country, ships x barrels of oil to refineries in Northern Iran over existing pipelines, foreign country picks up Iranian oil at a southern port). In exchange, Russia provides nuclear technology to Iran. One of the main driving forces of Iran’s nuclear program is a desire to use less oil so they can sell more of it. In a perfect world, in Iran’s view, they would use no oil and sell it all. All this nuclear weapons stuff is this idiot president they have trying to keep people’s attention diverted away from the fact that he is not paying attention to the domestic economy.
Barbara
Was George Washington a far right nationalist or a far left
nationalist? And do you get the hint, regardless of which you
choose?
Crosspatch
Nothing of what you say does more than interestingly fill out some of the details of an ongoing anti-American co-operation which will
increase in effectiveness and intensity.