Dec 19 2006
Am I Eating Polonium-210 Crow?
According to an ex-KGB officer in London I might have to eat some Polonium crow on the smuggling angle of this story:
Gordievsky claimed he knew who the murderer was on the fourth day after it happened. He said that British experts also knew it, “but they have been doing everything step by step, as it is correctly and it is necessary in this case according to procedureâ€. “Some time next year will publish the resultsâ€, said Gordievsky.
Asked to name the murderer, the ex-spy said he could make a hint only. “It was the person, who joined Lugovoy and the company for ten minutesâ€. According to Gordievsky, they [Lugovoy and the company] introduced him to Litvinenko as Volodya and told that “he also works in such business that could provide [you] some workâ€. Gordievsky said the man went away for a while and brought a cup of tea, and “so the end of Sasha had comeâ€. The ex-spy said the participants [of the murder] was a large group and they had rehearsed [their action] several times, in Moscow and then in London. However “they did not know what force this material possessed, even the main murderer did not know, only the bosses did knowâ€. According to Gordievsky, the British experts had found out that the murderers once had even dropped the container when they rehearsed; this was registered by the British equipment that “simply appeared to be the best in the worldâ€. Gordievsky added that the tablet of polonium that was made for the crime “does not cost $10 million, someone had exaggerated its priceâ€.
The ex-spy marked that polonium-200 is available only in Russia and in the United States. Both Americans and Englishmen know, which power plant had produced that polonium, what had been the size and the weight, and how and in what container it was packed, they know everything, Gordievsky said.
Asked about the role of Lugovoy, Kovtun and Sokolenko in the Litvinenko affair, Gordievsky repeated that judging by initial calculations, they were not murderers, because they simply were the mates of the murderers. “The person, who came on the side, was the killer. And they were sitting, distracting [his] attention all the timeâ€. Gordievsky pointed out that the main failure of the operation was the fact that nobody knew that polonium-200 was leaving traces. “They did not know that such equipment [to discover such traces] exists in the West, here again they have miscalculatedâ€.
Now I have my doubts about the Alpha-emitter technology as one of our readers pointed out our water supply is regularly tested to very low levels of alpha emitters. Levels that would easily detect Polonium-210. But in addition, there is no way anyone would confuse Litvinenko’s radiation illness with anything but radiation poisoning. And Polonium-210 is just not that subtle. This could be another person trying for their 15 minutes of fame. But we shall see. I would be very happy to be proven wrong on this – because an assassination is the least troubling scenario.
Enlightened,
No. Viktor (V. V.) Shebalin was the FSB colonel (“the man in the mask”) who told Mikhail Trepashkin about the “serious group” out to kill Litvinenko and asked him about information on Litvinenko’s relatives in Russia, particularly his father.
Hmmm. I just don’t think Sokolenko is the assassin. If he is – what a brazen guy to murder someone with poison, and not even worry about going on TV and doing press interviews after the fact. Litvinenko would have known right away what “Volodya” meant, anyone in the FSB knows what it means. If they introduced Sokolenko as “Volodya” Litvinenko would have had Sokolenko fingered right away as the assassin and I doubt the guy would have been able to do any press.
Ugghhhh. I guess we wait some more. But thank heavens for Gorievsky – he has let a couple of kitties out of the bag….
An interesting claim-which does NOT explain the multiple trails of contamination-especially the one in Berezovsky’s office.
Can you say disinformatsia ?
Mariposa wrote:
‘Given that history, it is not at all unreasonable to believe Gordievsky is still working closely with MI5, as he did with MI6 for years.’
Kanyeshna. He wouldn’t be Her Majesty’s Guest if wasn’t tame.
He’ll say anything.
There is something about these expats – they ALL claim to know current ongoing operations in Russia – they all want to seem important IMO. from the non expat Scaramella right up to and including this latest G. guy. That’s the common thread.
“He’ll say anything.”
copydude,
Ah, well, since you are the expert at that, I trust your opinion here.
Heh! That may be a bit too subtle, Mariposa.
I don’t think Sokolenko was the assassin either.
Assassinologists are having their day today. As I belong to a different school of conspiracy theorists I am a little bit disappointed. Still one quote helps me in my grief:
“Gordievsky pointed out that the main failure of the operation was the fact that nobody knew that polonium-200 was leaving traces.”
I think this statement undermines the credibility of the article by half. Making wild hypothesis about the identity of an assassin is inevitable, but publishing simplistic and/or misleading coverage of key facts is unappropotiate (except for yellow press)
I propose simple litmus test for articles or posts about our favorite subject. If we assume the default value of credibility for an article (or post) to be ten, then you need to divide the current value of credibility by two each time you can find the following (you can your personal favorites to the list) :
1. Litvinenko is called ” a former spy”
2. Alex Goldfarb called to be a friend of Litvinenko, without mentionening that he is Berezovsky’s spokesman
3. That you can determine the cause of death without autopsy
4. You can determine the amount of polonium used from UK press reports.
5. The association of Lugovoy and Belersozki is either not mentioned or distorted by calling Lugovoy just “former KGB bodyguard”.
6. A belief that former defectors know something about the current state of affairs in Russia.
7. That it is possible (or worse easy) to determine the origin of polonium independently of the form it was found
8. That Berezovky is a “self-exiled oligarch”
9. That to kill a person you need to contaminate a couple of hotels, dozen of planes and houses is three or more different countries.
10. That any state can order such a bizarre killing. Or worse can care to kill such a minor figure.
Well, here’s another article by Gordievsky – has the story changed?
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/november2006/211106thugs.htm
As far I as I am concerned one thing stands out loud and clear. I can’t understand why they used the real stuff in rehearsing this scenario many, many times both in Russia and London. Why not use a dummy packet? And did they contaminate Russia also? None of this explains all the polonium all over London and Hamburg. Did they rehearse for the three weeks prior to Litvinenko’s death? How many times? In every hotel they stayed in? This all sounds elaborate, unnecessary and unrealistic. In this scenario they broke or damaged the packet (and it must have been a different packet each time since they wouldn’t use a broken packet) at least three times they rehearsed thereby tracking it everywhere. How many packets did they have? A whole box of Equal or Splenda? I wonder, could they not play their parts well or were they just bad actors? Or maybe just naturally clumsey?
All these ex-pats have their own axe to grind. And MI5 or MI6 or whatever does not want the real news out at this time and this particular ex-pat is covering up for them. Then again, he like Shvets and Limarev weren’t there and might be just guessing. I don’t trust any of these people (Russian ex-pats) to tell the truth or even their version of same.
it seems to have canged, in this article he appears to accuse Lugovoi. However, it is possible that he as gleaned new information since the time of this article
clarice,
“I don’t think Sokolenko was the assassin either.”
So whodunnit? For me, it was Lugovoi, Kovtun and Sokolenko.
Enlightened,
Yes and no. Gordievsky’s always indicated Lugovoi was dirty in this. Now he’s making it more clear that Sokolenko actually handed Litvinenko the poison.
Here’s what I think: Lugovoi was in on this, he just didn’t administer the poison at the Millennium. I have a feeling he tried and failed in the past, though. I have always believed he brought his wife and kids as a cover and an assist in dropping Litvinenko’s guard. As soon as that happened — he even said his son approached their table — Sokolenko probably swept in with the tea.
I’ve brought this up before, but to the press, Sokolenko’s story has changed —
* I never even met the man, to
* I just shook his hand,
and I think it’s more than a translation issue.
For what it’s worth, I doubt Shebalin had much to do with this, but he may have information relating to the case.
Scotland Yard announced they interviewed six people. Lugovoi, Kovtun, Sokolenko are known interviewees. Lugovoi’s wife and son were requested but it was never announced if those happened. Who else?
Today there seems to be a lot of stories about Litvinenko being short of money. They seem to want to push tis story.
I think the hotel was full of Russians who appeared for the soccer match. The pine bar is small. I think one of them whose identity we still are unaware of, slipped it in the tea while Litvinenko was engaged with the others. (Perhaps as we earlier surmised, he imitated a waiter; perhaps he just walked past the table or bar stools where they sat (we don’t know where in the room they were sitting) and dropped it in the tea. )
Professionals have a way of melting into the background.They can make themselves utterly forgettable.
It seems to have been sokolenko tat told te press that 411 was occupied by the Lugovois
http://www.axisglobe.com/article.asp?article=1170
Mariposa,
in this article Gordievesky says he does not tink it was solenko
It was my understanding that at the 4:30 meeting when Litvinenko met Lugovoi’s son he drank nothing.
You know, it may be my nasty suspicious mind but with all the infiltrations the KGB and FSB are accused of in all countries, I simply do not believe anything any of them say. Who knows who they are still working for under the surface? Who knows if any of them are legitimate ex-pats? These agents have been known to burrow into their covers so deeply as to be trusted and believed. . Scaramella is investigating Prodi of all people to see if he is or was a KGB agent. And goodness knows, we have had some of them in our own government.
If the governments of all countries are not watching these people closely they are derelict in their duties. It is one thing to give them sanctuary but another thing entirely trust them with no doubts.
Whatever the truth might be (and we’ll probably all be eating some crow at the end of this), I find the relative absence of alarm concerning a terrorist/smuggling scenario in the mainstream media disconcerting. Good that there are blogs like this one to help correct the problem.
I would prefer an assassination over what I believe to be true. I wouldn’t mind eating crow at all. In fact I would do so gladly if the authorities can prove that there is no smuggling, no dirty bomb and no terrorist danger.
This is my first post here though I have been following the Litvinenko discussion for weeks. I think that AJ Strata and the commenters are doing a great job exploring this story and I have learned a lot more about Polonium-210 here than I would have done from the mainstream media.
I am not an advocate of any particular theory but curious to investigate all possibilities. That said, I orinally came to this site as I found the storyline on the case being put out by the MSM utterly unconvincing and frequently contradictory.
I would like to make just a few observations/questions and I do apologise if these have already been covered:
1. Although I can see a motive for Berezovsky and the Chechens to attack Russia, I’m not sure that it makes sense for a smuggling ring to bring the material into London first and start dividing it up there. It would seem to be multiplying the risk. If it was something to do with a dirty bomb, dispersal of Polonium or even a nuclear device in Russia, would it not make more sense to distribute and work with the material as close as possible to the intended destination?
2. If it was an assassination attempt it would seem to have gone badly wrong. Has anyone considered whether it was a multiple assassination attempt designed to take out the entire network, including Berezovsky, which would have required a big operation with quite a few people involved and far more chance of things going wrong? In any case, would it not make more sense to take out Berezovsky than Litvinenko?
3. Any information coming from MI5, directly or through people like Gordievsky (as some have speculated), will only be giving the message that MI5 wants to give. The British intelligence services are masters of disinformation and work closely with the police and government. If there was a serious threat to London (dirty bomb, nuclear device) it is likely that MI5 would choose not to disclose it but to seek to track the network, and I would expect the police statements to fit in with the cover story. That is not being cynical in any way, just recognizing that it is the way the British intelligence services operate.