Dec 22 2006
The Money Trail On Litvinenko
A lot of people here who adhere to the theory that the Litvinenko incident was an assassination and not a smuggling effort have queried where is the money trail. It is clear a money trail will be the nail in the coffin for those thought to be involved with this incident because it is as clear an indicator of motive as one can find. So here is a glimpse into the money trail and it would, as much of the evidence to date has shown, not seem to reflect an assassination but look more like a smuggling effort:
A business partner of Shvets’, Karon von Gerhke-Thompson, believes Litvinenko got caught up in a web of double agents and crime that cost him his life. Investigators working on the case say they have “never seen so much money” being transferred in the intelligence business, she said.
Assassinations do not come out of ‘webs’, but smuggling nuclear contraband and a coup d’etat requires a web of coordinated organizations and people. I should also note that as the dosage Litvinenko apparently absorbed has shrunken in size, that has actually reduced the probability this was an assassination effort AND that the fatal dose was administered on Nov 1st.
I would strongly suggest people look over the comments in this previous post because the discussions there show that the Litvinenko could have been poisoned a week or two earlier than first suspected, given the time it took for his radiation poisoning symptoms to truly surface. The hair loss alone could be the indicator that Litvinenko was exposed over many weeks to the Polonium 210 and not in one massive dose as initially believed.
Also, the fact that Thallium was present in Litvinenko is another indication this was not a state run effort because the material doesn’t look to be industrial quality Polonium-210 but a cruder product that can be created in many nuclear facilities. Like those found in Iran and North Korea. I am hoping the readers who have been assessing this incident from a chemistry angle, along with those who are medical practitioners, will be helping to lay out a new picture based on the latest understanding of the material found in Litvinenko. I said many times his case would be the first in modern times to show how Polonium 210 kills (which is why I have had my doubts from day one anyone would chose the material as a weapon of assassination – it has been unproven until now).
No one dose.
Exposure over time. Poorly packaged. And, the limited scientific knowldedge that was available to the perps.
At first? By chance, Litvinenko dined on raw fish. Began to vomit. Must have thought the “fish was bad.” Didn’t seek help until it was apparent the “fish didn’t do it.”
Then?
The story goes into PR. Goldfarb.
The Italian is waved off. (Just like in the Sgrena “kidnap” case. And, there we learned, only because the Italian dead guy, was #1, and had a fancy Italian funeral), that something was amiss. And, that the Italians had intrusted their #1 guy to bring about $10-million, in untrace-able cash, into the terrorist’s next in Iraq.) Almost got away? Sure. And, we still don’t know the name of the American Colonel, dispatched by whom? To stand at the get-away plane? He disappeared only after the “car arrived.” And, it held the body of Italy’s Top #1 spook-guy.
Of course, to the side, there’s Amb. Wilson. And, his “underwear, cover, of a wife, Valarie Plame. How did they get to the fake Italian documents? Just one of those Italian things; where the Italians supply the Keystone Cops.
Method of transfer of the polonium? IF that’s what in fact these smugglers were smuggling? Still unknown. (But it seems to have traveled by air. And, one of the shipments got “waylaid” in Hamberg.) East Germany still has a communist block? It didn’t drop when the wall fell down? Who knew?
The money trail? Could have been one way the “poison traveled.”
Greedy people count money. Even if it arrives in a suitcase. And, the polonium? You could inhale it. If there was a way to make a little “poof” go up into the air.
While the Imam in Londonstan was panic stricken when he saw the casket. Didn’t let it into his mosque. So odd. Such a big part of religious ceremony. That gives the faithful a route of departure to The Man Upstairs, not available to the un-faithful.
But no one cares. The story that’s full of McGuffin’s.
At least we know the Ishu Sushi Restaurant produced one for Litvinenko. Because at first when he threw up. He thought it was “bad fish.”
While we’re still left with a fishy story.
You want to check the flow of the dough? Try going to Iraq. There’s no money trail to speak of on the Sgrena story. Just her lies. And, the knowledge she “liked” her kidnappers. And, yet it cost such a fortune to get her out of Iraq. Plus the life on one spook.
And, that American Colonel. To this day, no one knows his name.
So far? All we’ve got is fiction. Damn good story, though.
Madsen is pushing the dirty bomb scenario now, not sure if this is a good or bad development.
Thallium was present at a very, very low level. Only three times the normal backround level present in most people. He could have attained that level by simply eating more “top of the food chain” fish such as tuna or swordfish. That he often enjoyed sushi would probably be enough to attain that level of thallium in his system. He probably also had more mercury and other heavy metals than average too.
Thallium at that low of a level does not show anything about the polonium and I believe that consensus was reached in the other thread that any increased thallium from bismuth-210 decay would probably be undetectable as it would be masked by the normal backround thallium from our environment and foods.
I do believe Litvinenko had been exposed to internal alpha radiation prior to November 1, though. The onset of symptoms in his case are too rapid to suit me if he received all his polonium dosage that evening.
For me the key of that article lies here:
Everyone that has gone public with an opinion works or has worked for Berezovsky. I see Goldfarb in all this manipulating information flow. I don’t know that to be a fact, it simply seems that way to me.
What a disingenous way to allege a money trail. There is nothing in this article that links Litvineko to any money from anyone.
This is a Russian article, and Russia’s foremost agenda is to denigrate Litvinenko at every turn.
Litvienko was assassinated – he did not deliberately ingest poison.
Who assassinated him and why has yet to be revealed.
It was a comment supposedly coming from “investigators” and I don’t believe it said whose investigators but I think it implied British. Lets not make the mistake of believing everything printed in the press or read it more carefully than it is written. I would pay attention to any direct quotes from law enforcement and read those very carefully but there have been few of those. What is being printed at this point are people’s speculations and speculation on those speculations.
All we *know* at this point is that Litvinenko is dead and the other two associates were contaminated with polonium for some period of time before Litvinenko became ill. We also know that the some places visited by them have varying levels of contamination and that other people who had casual contact with those people and the places they visited also have varying degrees of contamination.
In other words, we have one dead person and a persistant contamination trail going back at least two weeks prior. It could possibly go back further, but there has been very little information recently. The British have gone very tight lipped on this.
We are not likely to get anything useful from the press at this point unless it originates from law enforcement. Shvets’ comments are loaded with speculation and to follow his argument, you have to build one assumption onto another. He was thousands of miles away, had been for some time, apparently saw some document that Litvinenko showed him for proofreading and has jumped to the conclusion that he was murdered for it.
What I find most interesting is Lukovoi now being tossed under the bus by the Berezovsky/Goldfarb machine. They must have a pretty good inkling now that Lugovoi is now cooperating with authorities because there is no way they would do that otherwise. Lukovoi is now being accused of being FSB and of seeing this “dossier” and of transmitting it to Moscow … but not of being the poisoner … though he was contaminated for some time prior.
The pieces in Shvets’ story don’t add up. He is telling me the puzzle makes a picture of a boat but if I make a boat out of it following his logic, I have all these extra pieces left over (persistant contamination trail, Kovtun also contaminated, Kovtun not attending the trip of the 25/26th yet showing up in Hambug contaminated yet flight to London not contaminated yet London hotel contaminated where he stayed). All of this is pointing to repeated contact with the stuff.
Jerry,
Madsen is a clown – so I would say this is not going to help at all.
Assassinations cost money. If the intelligence community Litvinenko pissed off put the hit on him – monies would be transferred. Ho hum.
Crosspatch,
Off the cuff, not-for-the-record question: Do you think either Lugovoi or Kovtun have been exposed to a fatal degree?
I have no knowledge of the details of their illness so I can’t say. My belief is that they have sustained enough exposure to certainly be at a greater risk of cancers and would be surprised if either lives more than 10 years. Hair loss from Kovtun would be a bad sign if that is accurate.
The British investigators have interviewed them and I assume they would have also spoken to any medical personnel involved to determine the nature and amount of their exposure. So I would say we have to wait for some word to come from Scotland Yard or from the individuals directly.
So while *we* might not know the details and prognosis of the two, Scotland Yard probably has a much more complete picture of what is going in with regard to that. And I might reiterate, they are being extremely tight-lipped when it comes to details so far.
Oh, and today’s shopping tip: The toy stores are PACKED. Allow plenty of time.
“The British have gone very tight lipped on this.”
With good reason. If terrorists purchased Po in wildcat operations, they would be quite interested in knowing the exact amount of Po found in him, because obviously it would give them an indication of how potent the Po is.
I don’t think there is any evidence Litvinenko was exposed to Po before November 1st. I’m not saying it didn’t happen, just that there is no compelling evidence that it did. We only know the dose was *at least* 10 times the lethal dose (which is not clearly defined in these reports either), so the timing of his death could be consistent with Nov 1 poisoning. Also, I don’t think we have any evidence it was inhaled because his initial reaction was stomach problems, which is an indication he swallowed the Po. Inhaled Po should give respiratory problems, as evidenced by cigarette smokers.
An large inhaled dose would “burn” the lungs. I am not a doctor but I would expect to see symptoms along the lines of pneumonia and even if less than a fatal dose inhaled, lung cancer.
As for evidence that that he wasn’t exposed before November 1, I believe there is plenty.
He met with Kovtun and Lugovoi on the trip of the 16th. Apparently there was contamination associated with both of them (hotel rooms, meeting places) on that trip. We can not tell if Litvineko was contaminated at that time because his home was already contaminated from subsequent exposure.
He met with Lugovoi on the 25th/26th trip. Lugovoi again showed contamination in airplane seats and hotel room. Again, we have no way to determine, as far as I know, if Litvinenko was contaminated because all the places we can check have been contaminated subsequently.
He let with both Lugovoi and Kovtun on November 1. Kovtun showed contamination days earlier with some of that contamination consistent with having ingested polonium. Some of Lugovoi’s contamination on an airliner (seat contamination) is consistent with body fluid contamination, some of it is not (overhead bin contamination). So we have three people. One of them died. We didn’t begin to look for contamination until that one had already become ill. The other two people showing contamination showed contamination patterns consistent with having ingested some polonium. It is not too much of a stretch to think that Litvinenko would have some in him as well.
We do not know the nature of the contamination at the meeting places. Is the place where Litvineko sat at the security company contaminated? If so, is it consistant with a body fluid or particles? Those are the kinds of things Scotland Yard would know already and we are speculating about. Our speculations could be way out in left field.
“As for evidence that that he wasn’t exposed before November 1, I believe there is plenty.”
Meant to say that there is plenty that he could have been.
So the only new word out of the police:
“‘It’s making progress, but it’s a fairly complicated inquiry, and it’s ongoing,’ a police spokesman said on Friday, declining further comment.”
And:
“A police source told Reuters this week it was likely that Scotland Yard would send a report early next year to prosecutors, who would then have to decide whether to bring a case.”
So we are not likely to hear much over the next few weeks.
“He let with both Lugovoi and Kovtun on November 1. Kovtun showed contamination days earlier with some of that contamination consistent with having ingested polonium.”
I agree, if they are both poisoned, and were poisoned at these times, it seems quite likely that Litvinenko was also poisoned before 11/1. However, I have doubts about their condition because of the strange reports – one day Kovtun is in a coma, the next he’s just fine, his shaving his hair although it appears to be quite thick, and the fact that they both looked very well on 11/24. Clearly, there is a need, for someone, to keep their actual condition under wraps. It could be a sinister reason, it could be a perfectly innocuous reason, there is no way to tell.
Considering the contamination surrounding them, it seems perfectly reasonable that they would be in grave danger. Although, they could possibly have handled the polonium with protective masks, and then got negligible amounts on their clothes.
Those reports of comas and stuff weren’t coming from official sources. They were reported from Interfax and picked up by other news outlets. Interfax is correct sometimes, but my old cuckoo clock in the bedroom is also correct twice a day too.
Be careful in what you read that you don’t read it with more care than the author used in writing it.
The coma report was dispelled right away by Kotvun’s lawyers and other sources.
That’s true, but as I recall Lugovoi stated that he was not releasing his medical report, or even brief the media of it’s general content. In fact, L+K haven’t stated just how sick they are. I presume that they have revealed this in more detail to the investigators, but as it is, we just don’t know very little about their health status.
Btw, one more argument against the state-directed hit is obviously that they did not use the diplomatic flights. If Po was going to be used for a state/FSB hit you would think there would be a better way of delivering the weapon to the assassins rather than them carrying it around. Using diplomatic services, they could have made sure that the Po container was safe, using the regular protective measures.
Onlty three quick points for now.
1. The key to a productive interpretation is the context of a terrorist act (the deeper and broader is the better) and its PR framing. Some very perceptive analyses in this blog, but somewhat weak on the above conditions. I sense also some counterproductive ideological moments.
2. One strange circumstance is that no Western specialist on radiation biology or just nuclear physics was given a public hearing in the media, to my knowledge, at least. Meanwhile, it has become almost an axiom that the amount of polonium that could kill L. can be possessed only by a state. For instance, the company producing antistatic brushes with polonium claimed that one had to by 15,000 of them to extract the amout of polonium that killed L. In fact, only two brushes is enough to obtain a minimal lethal dose. And the extraction of polonium from these brushes can be done in a good high school chemistry lab. For precise calculations and methods see
http://nuxpert.livejournal.com/615.html
3. Shvets and his “business partner,” Karon von Gerhke-Thompson. Shvets belongs, of course, to Berezovsky’s international gang. We can also safely assume that Berezovsky himself is controlled by the Intelligence Service, and above all , by the Americans. Goldfarb is the central figure here. According to G.’s account of his assistance to Litvinenko in getting from Turkey to Britain, he has good contacts in the CIA and the State Department. According to the Russian journalist Oleg Sultanov who penetrated Berezovsky’s inner circle and had numerous contacts with Goldfarb, had the impression that Golfarb called the shots rather than Berezovsky. What I find interesting about the Shvets and von Gerhke is that they appear to have crossed each others paths in life back in 1999 as witnesses before the House Committee on Banking and Financial Services
in the so-called “Russiagate” scandal, or the strange case of BONY affair. And the strangest thing about it was that it died as suddenly as it was born., a sure sign of our “elites” taking it close to heart. While Shvets is clearly a swindler (See Major Nikola Melnichenko statements on Shvets’ role in Berezovsky’s attempt to blackmail Kuchma ), von Gerhke appears to be a morally solid Protestant type. Who brought them together? My educated guess it was Fritz Ermarth of the CIA, NSC, NIC, RAND Corp, and the Nixon Center. Ermarth was central to the anti-Gore campain that was the essence of the BONY affair. He testified to the Congress together with Svets and von Gerhke, both the CIA assets. Acording to the Russian source who helped Ermarth in collecting dirt on Gore and Summers, Ermath became Berezovsky’s “handler” after the Brits handed the oligarch to the Americans .
http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/10/09/37954_.html
Ermarth duly surfaced several days after L’s death to inject the idea that he was murdered by the Kremlin circles (Igor Sechin’s group of siloviki) in order to push Putin to accept a third term.
http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/2006-271-12.cfm
Then, two weeks (?) later, they activate Shvets with the story about some high-ranking Kremlin official (meaning Sechin, of course). Sechin is, of course, a close associate of Putin. So the question is: Are the people behind Ermarth and Berezovsky’s circle simply using L’s death opportunistically for their psychological warfare against Putin, or their spin is a part and the evidence of the conspiracy?
I rember readinf that analysis showed ‘two spikes’ sugessting that he ad been poisoned twice (sorry cant remember where i read that)
the hospital that they are in is high security so they are effectively under an equivelent of house arrest. I think the coma story and subsequent lawyer denials could have been a ploy that was not carried through, whereby he would have dissapeared. I believet they are in danger.
sorry for all te spelling mistakes i spilled a drink on my keyboard!
“What I find most interesting is Lukovoi now being tossed under the bus by the Berezovsky/Goldfarb machine. They must have a pretty good inkling now that Lugovoi is now cooperating with authorities because there is no way they would do that otherwise.”
Crosspatch do you mean by the way they’re distancing themselves from him? Or is there a piece of the puzzle I’ve missed?