Dec 27 2006
Agreeing With An Anti-War Liberal On Litvinenko
It has become a very strange time indeed when I find myself in complete agreement with an anti-war liberal. In this case it is on the Litvinenko incident, and the argument laid out is an excellent synopsis of my posts on this matter. My impression of liberals has been inching upward recently, as I see clear examples of independent thinking and not accepting the PR that issues out of the mainstream media. This is a good sign to me that everyone is breaking their mental shackles that tie them to the error prone media giants.
And Ken,
What did Bill Clinton do to the muslim world to precipitate the first world trade bombing, the twin embassy bombings, the USS Cole bombing, the thwarted airliner bombings in the Philippines, and the eventual 9/11 attacks that were set into motion before Bush was elected?
Just exactly what did Clinton do that was so horrible as to raise the ire of al Qaida so?
“Where they had all pretty much been “bandwagon†sites toeing the party line on issues, I am seeing some thought and logic in some quarters. ”
I noticed the shift immediately following the midterm elections. All of a sudden it’s like it dawned on liberals that they have to do something more than just Hate Bush, which they were doing in spades. Bush being effectively marginalized (by his own actions, to a greater or lesser extent) could ironically be a force to bring the left and right together, or more together anyway.
I’ll never forget Glenn Greenwald, who never in the history of mankind ever utter a pro-Republican or anti-Democrat word, suddenly come swinging at Rahm Emmanuel for lying.
Of course, Glenn Greenwald thinks everyone on the right is a liar, but I was shocked to see him put a Clintonista in his sites.
To be honest, I think Ken is a Greenwald sockpuppet.
we’ll be fighting them in North America,†bull –Ken
Congratulations Ken, you’re literally fighting the last war.
This is a different enemy, different time. Yes Communism was bad, no doubt, but we could co-exist with it. Islamofacism takes no prisoners, Ken, they’d just as soon have your head on a skewer as mine. Maybe mine first, I’m sure you’d give them a hug prior to being beheaded.
Crosspatch you may have a point there. Ken do you have a Brazil IP address?
The difference is that the Communists were about the workers uniting. That fell apart when the workers in Poland (Solidarity was a workers movement that started in the Gdansk shipyards) demanded democracy. Communism was the secular rule of men. They could be overthrown or shown to be wrong. The problem with al Qaeda is they claim to be the rule of God and anyone questioning the law is questioning the religion and their holy book says the penalty for questioning the religion is death. To speak against Sharia is blasphemy and blasphemy is a capital offense and there is no room for mercy.
So once their rule takes hold, there is no way for anyone to speak out because to do so is an automatic beheading. You can not change the rules because the rules were written down centuries ago by their prophet. They can not be changed, they can not be modified. They will not be negotiated with and they will suffer any sanction imposed as their fight is a religious fight, not an ideological one. They can not simply decide that another system is better. For them to change their position would be to lose their very identity and shake the foundations of their beliefs. They won’t do it. They will die fighting for that belief system so it is our duty to give them the opportunity to do so. It really isn’t much different than the Japanese and their religious belief in the emperor. They would die willingly rather than surrender until the emperor himself told them to.
In order for their rule to fall apart, their religion itself must fall apart. The militant salafist version of Islam is a religion with borderline personality disorder. All or nothing. Perfection or death. Pray five times a day or be beaten or worse. Do not question or be killed. THAT is what we are fighting against.
I can not for the life of me understand why anyone, especially someone with a liberal background, would support such a system.
“Have you read the news concerning attacks by fundamentalist muslims in Thailand and Indonesia recently?” Crossedsignals asks?
These people have resided in the area for centuries. What’s that got to do with North America?
Gotta Know
You sure do: “This is a different enemy, different time. Yes Communism was bad, no doubt, but we could co-exist with it. Islamofacism takes no prisoners, Ken, they’d just as soon have your head on a skewer as mine. ”
See, inquisitive one, “Islamofascism” doesn’t exist and as far
as Moslems go, unlike the USSR and Red China, not one
country has a military to come close to equalling the “Red threat’s”
of the Cold War era.
LK — Here’s a video telling how to find any IP address.
Crosspatch
Your dear leader Bush “supports such a system” as al Qaeda by maddening the entire Moslem world by invading an innocent country and causing al Qaeda’s ranks to burgeon. When we come home,
their ranks will fizzle, as the average Moslem is a patriotic nationally-oriented citizen, not a desirer of an international caliphate which would extinguish his nation’s soveriegnity.
CP, a lot of die hard liberals lead very shielded lives. They’ve never been in contact with islamic fundamentalists. I have met many Christian fundamentalists – and they have always been humble and a bit sad that I will probably eventually go to hell. I have talked about religion with one fundamentalist muslim – he basically threatened me, said “you never know how long you live” and had me read an important passage of the Koran before he let me leave the car. True story, it happened when I went on a job interview in a US city, as a matter of fact.
Although I know it’s but a small sample experience, my view on islam changed that day, I have to say.
Christian fundamentalists may be humble but their ministers tell them to vote only for politicians which support the Likud Party and other Israeli Right extremist parties, and the flock obeys.
These so-called Christians probably give more aid and comfort,then,
to Israel than outright Zionist Lobby members.
In turn, Israel continues to oppress the Pals in squalorous refugee camps, leading to Arab and Moslem enmity for America worldwide.
Your anecdote sounds liek you’re either paranoid or have a guilty consciensce.
There is currently no Christian fundamentalist group that has threatened to and/or undertaken to overthrow governments and create a global government under clerical law.
Yet again, Ken, your posting is pointless.
*yawn* well, I hope someone else than the sociopath troll reads this. It was a cab driver. He talked about Allah the whole drive, told me to convert because you never know when you’re going to die and showed me a passage of the Koran. Yeah, I guess I must have been paranoid to take offense, lol. But again, the most PC people have no idea what kind of people they’re dealing with, which is part of the problem…
Lost, your Moslem cab driver did the same thing that Christian missionaries have tried to do for centuries. They preached hellfire and damnation to convert people to Christianity and like Islam, forced women to wear mother-hubbard dresses not that dissimilar to burqas?
You should have reported the driver to the cab company. He’s being paid to drive passengers to their destination, not make converts.
Yes, yes, but few Christian missionaries seem to be up to these more violent methods of persuasion of late. That would seem to be the difference.
Raimondo is a leftist, anti-American, anti-Semite.
If you are growing to like him, AJ, I’ll just leave you and his friend Ken and our on-the-Kalingrad-spot reporter to your own devices.
Lost, yes missionaries didn’t resort to beheadings and they did introduce hygiene and modern medicine to primitive areas in Africa and Asia, but they also created a lot of havoc in their own way.
…but we digress. This is the 21st century. 21st century Christians don’t blow up women and children on buses. They don’t behead journalists and distribute the act on the internet. They don’t hang burnt bodies from bridges in the center of towns. They don’t threaten to annihilate entire races, societies, countries. They don’t murder family members for dating and staying out late.
There is no comparison, there is no possible moral equivalence. It is not America’s fault, that is poison from the same radical islamist well. And Ken, just because there are no printed ID cards that read “Islamofacist” doesn’t mean they aren’t united to a common cause, and very successfully carrying it out. Don’t be naive.
No Clarice, I am not growing to like him.
But his arguments are identical to mine on this one issue. Even the most radical can agree with us normal people on some issues. Just happens this is one where sanity seems to be shining through.
Lostinthedrift
Funny, even before I was 18 I was prostlytised by several Christian
evangelicals with the “Jesus is the only way to salvation” message
many times, some in public places and with ominous warnings
of what refusal on my part meant. Guess that was an era when
American Christians were as serious about their religion as
Moslems are now.