Jan 22 2007
Believing The Unbelievable
See Scaramella addendum at end
Folks are making a lot out of the fact Mario Scaramella, a documented con man who has a history of making up stories as fact, claims he knows something about the location of the Po-210 spill in the Itsu sushi restaurant. The same restaurant where he and Litvinenko met on Nov 1, when the 3rd known ‘consignment’ (as authorities once called the smuggling shipment of Po-210 through London) and where Litvinenko and Kovtun and Lugovoi supposedly met Litvinenko on Oct 16th, when the first consignment shows up on the Po-210 trail. If people need to rely on a lying conman to support the assassination theory so be it. Just don’t expect everyone to do so.
But was really interesting this week is what the news media did not report on. Another Russian exile (this time a KGB spy who defected to the UK and worked for MI6), Gordievsky, claimed he knew (again) who killed Litvinenko. Another friend of Litvinenko (and therefore Berezovsky) claims he knows what police know. He says it is some mystery man caught on airport cameras flying with Kovtun to London on Nov 1 from Hamburg. The news of the companion on the flight is not new. But what is interesting is Gordievsky was sure the man with the poisoned tea was Lugovoi. And he was sure of this BEFORE Litvinenko died and tea cups and contaminated hotel rooms and bars and restaurants and planes and offices and homes and Moscow embassies were all found by police.
Here is Gordievsky in an interview prior to Nov 20th (the date of the article), which is 3 days before Litvinenko dies, and around the time Berezovsky mobilizes his PR army to snap media pictures of Litvinenko and get Goldfarb from New York to be spokesman (and get a deathbed accusation). Note the description of the man Gordviesky accuses with the known details out only this past week:
Gordievsky, a former KGB station head in London, who still refers to the FSB by its former name, insisted that he did not know the identity of the Russian would-be killer. But he assumed that the man was a former associate of Boris Berezovsky, the former oligarch and Yeltsin confidant, who has been granted political asylum in Britain.
“He used to be in Berezovsky’s entourage and was imprisoned in Moscow. Then suddenly he was released, and soon after that he became a businessman and a millionaire. It is all very suspicious. But the KGB has recruited agents in prisons and camps since the 1930s. That is how they work.â€
The man came to London, posing as a businessman and a friend. He met Litvinenko at a hotel and put poison in his tea. That was before Litvinenko had lunch at a Japanese restaurant with the Italian he knew as Mario, who had arranged to meet him because he said he had information about the murder of Politkovskaya, a close friend.
Now by this time it is possible the police had done their interview of Litvinenko and these are the details that they had at this early time. And I guess it is possible Gordievsky learned these from police. But more likely the cabal around Litvinenko, hoping to distract from the Po-210 smuggling he seemed to be connected with, were the ones who had solidified a grand story of state assassination. The interesting thing is here, at this time, the description of the killer is of Andrei Lugovoi. He was the millionaire who used to be Berezovsky’s body guard. He was the one jailed for a time for trying to help oligarchs escape Russia. Gordievsky knew the name, but he was not saying. He probably was sending a message to Lugovoi to keep quiet. It was definitely NOT of a Chechen looking man who flew in with Kovtun. That story came out AFTER the police leaked news of the man being seen on camera. Was any of this real?
But he knew about the tea cup and the hotel meeting. How could he be so accurate on the method and not have the person right? If these people were sharp and knew they risked being exposed, they would concoct a ctory that would try and explain the evidence.
The problem with the assassination story is the tea cup itself, it could not have been the vessel for killing Litvinenko and have the Po-210 signs it seems to have. The deadly Litvinenko dose was 10 millionths of a gram of Po-210. Not enough to even warm the tea, let alone leave scarring indications of Po-210 weeks later after washing and possible repeated use. This little amount in the tea would have washed away and left little sign of Po-210. And if disolved in the tea only the Po-210 floating in the liquid a few centimeters from the surface of the cup would interact with the surface.
But that is not what the tea cup shows apparently. We do not have details but we do have simple science and logic. The amount of Po-210 that would not harm you on your hand and could be washed away is not going to leave a long lasting signature, with embedded Po-210, in porcelain. The amount of Po-210 that would leave a signature on porcelain and embed enough material to contaminate a dishwasher, kitchen and kitchen staff would have killed Litvinenko 100-1000 times over. The tea cup is the mistake Litvinenko’s “friends” made in trying to cover up their culpability in all this. They knew a tea cup was used to hold Po-210 in a room in the Millenium Hotel. This was reported by Gordievsky BEFORE Litvinenko died. The same room where Po-210 was dropped and then cleaned up – most likely held in a tea cup until another container could be found. The room in question shows the spot of the spill and the Po-210 on lightswitch, from the hand that picked up the dropped Po-210.
These people had to make up some alibi about why a tea cup had been contaminated, so they claimed it had been the vessel for the poison. But it could not be, it is too contaminated compared to the dose reportedly found in Litvinenko. So they had knowledge of where the Po-210 was going to be found – intimate knowledge. Knowledge from inside the room itself at the time of key events. But their story doesn’t fit the science. Their attempt to explain the hot tea cup failed to understand the different amounts needed to scar porcelain (a gram or so) and kill a person (50 billionths of a gram). It is because these measures are hard for humans to grasp that they made their mistake and exposed their knowledge of what happened in the room. Berezovsky actually blew it by bringing in a PR firm, which specializes in creating fantasy, instead of scientists. He supposedly was one himself – but he too forgot to that the impact of a gram of Po-210 would not look anything like the impact of millionths of a gram. And what about this brand new story coming out (again) to fit the latest revelations by police? One has to wonder if the police have any suspect flying with Kovtun into London from Hamburg, or if this was a test of loyalty and honesty.
Addendum:: I just wanted to add a note about Scaramella’s recent claim that the Po-210 detected at the Itsu sushi restaurant was possibly not detected where he and Litvinenko met on November 1st. He claimed on the BBC’s Panorama show last night the Po-210 was probably located where Litvinenko met with Lugovoi and Kovtun on Oct 16th. This is one of those dumb efforts by a known con man to try and distance himself from scrutiny, to only end up to drawing a lot more attention to himself instead. If Scaramella did not get his own Po-210 poisoning from Litvinenko during that Nov 1 meeting, then he must have been physically present with the material at some other time.
Here is why. Scaramella has the 4th largest internal dose of Po-210 of anyone reported yet. Top of the list is Litvinenko with be 2-10 millionths of a gram (depending on which report you read). That is 50-200 times the theorical lethal dose of 50 billionths of a gram. One thing to remember in all of this is a lethal dose may not be quickly fatal. Litvinenko died after three weeks of his last exposure. A lethal dose could still allow someone to live on for months or years before the damage finally takes its victim. So we must remember a fatal dose does not equate to immediate death (just like a fatal cancer may not kill for months or years).
Second on the list is Kovtun. I believe he too has a fatal dose, just not one which will kill him as fast as it did Litvinenko (obviously, since Kovtun is apparently still alive). Third on the list is Lugovoi and fourth was Scaramella who possibly had a dosage five times what the lethal dose is currently believed to be.
So instead of 50 billionths of a gram he got up to 250 billionths. Five times a small number is still a smal number. What everyone has to understand is this case will redefine what a lethal dose is and how fast that lethality will take its victim. The fifth on the list is Marina LKitvinenko, who is clearly not considered at risk. Just below her, on the same tier, are the 13 people contaminated at the Pine Bar. Marina and her 13 fellow victims where poisoned with non-lethal amounts. They all seem to have come into secondary contact with the Po-210, not a primary exposure.
Clearly Litvinenko, Kovtun and Lugovoi got their doses from being in the room with the spill (who wants to lay odds the contaminated lightswitch has a Po-210 laced fingerprint?). Someone touched the Po-210 and transferred it to the lightswitch. My bet is it was Litvinenko or Kovtun. But Po-210 is an excitable material and atoms start flying aruond rooms when it is exposed to the room. The closer to the material the more Po-210 you will inhale or ingest (or both). This is the three Russians are the most poisoned – they were at ground zero.
So if Scaramella did not get contaminated at the Itsu sushi restaurant – how is it he has a dosage comparible to the three top victims of contamination? Scaramella should have kept his mouth shut – or the reporting on this story is so bad no one knows what is going on with the investigation.
AJ, do you have someone in authority saying the cup was “scarred” – as if by Po, or are you assuming this because there are good reports that the cup was highly radioactive when found? The amount of radioactivity that killed Sasha was a large, I could see large amounts of contamination on the cup (not washing away) because teaspoons would score the glaze on the porcelain – just look at your grandmothers teacups.
About the sushi bar, the article makes is seem that Scaramella is the source of the idea on the BBC show that the Po contamination was where the Russians sat, and not where he and Sasha sat. So, in this situation I’d agree with you that we should be cautious about this angle.
I still find your smuggling theories even less believable, though it was curious to see the Times say that Lugovoi is being investigated for “trafficking” Po.
The teacup aspect is strange. Why would one of these guys pour a gram of Po-210 into a teacup in the first place? Is it a show-and-tell event like what you see in the big time drug deals where the buyer samples the goods?
I can imagine that pouring this stuff back into a vial from a teacup would cause quiet a spill. It would be impossible to control it all while pouring it back into something small without a funnel.
from the Panorama show:
“I know they closed it (The Sushi restaurant) because they found the polonium, but seems it was not in the place where we seated. So lots of things must be clarified. Where we seated there is no polonium,” he said.
It was widely reported that Mr Scaramella had tested positive for polonium.
But Panorama has discovered that his initial test results were inaccurate. Subsequent tests proved negative.
Con Men AND ‘PR’ types! Getting you to believe in an assassination story where NO SHOTS WERE FIRED. And, no stranger came running in quickly to do the misdeed; and then jumped out the window. So he couldn’t be questioned.
That Scaramalla (an Italian bum), knew enough, or heard enough about the hundreds of millions of dollars in play; shows up to London. And, Litvinenko gave him the grand tour.
Well, ya know what? Look at how Litvinenko “worked.” Because very few people get paid salaries to walk about London. Visit friends in hotels. And, take a “new found” italian buddy, around. Ya know why you can’t write your resume for this job? Because at some point on the piece of paper you have to show HOW you WORK. No need to do much, here.
And, all the telephone numbers are missing. In other words, HOW DID Scaramella call into this “job?” He couldn’t do it through a travel agent, ya know. And, he just didn’t meet Litvinenko, or any other russian, on the street, and introduce himself as “I’d like to meet you. You look like a very fine chap.”
And, ya know what else? I’ll bet ya that Scaramella hates to eat RAW FISH. So when discussing places “to go for a bite,” Litvinenko took Scaramella, (who didn’t want to let go of his London “find”) to a Japanese restaurant. Where only Litvinenko scarfed down food. Well, that’s not very friendly! Itallians like outdoor cafes. They like to eat, or twirl spaghetti. And, they can sit with bread and Chianti, for hours and hours. Well, that’s not part of this story, either.
While espionage is BIG BUSINESS. I’ll make odds that if an italian got brought on board, the real story is most interesting. And, this time out, the arabs had to hire “halp” … They just couldn’t dress up some of their martyrs, spending years training them to “fly planes,” and then let 9/11 loose. (And, if you remember 9/11, ALL AIR TRAFFIC STOPPED. Because the word was the arabs had 100 planes; coming from many nations. To slam into American buildings. All within a few hours time.)
What do you make of the way 9/11 was handled by American authorities?
What do you make of the responses? Did you notice that the “clean up” only took nine months? That’s all it took. Buracracy couldn’t screw “that” up; as much as they’ve screwed with passengers, sine that day, who fly.
And, all those other (outside of the 19 idiots in search of virgins), who taught us “something” about the HOUSE OF SAUD, what did you learn?
We’ve got no experience unraveling this particular lie. Set out by Goldfarb, because he had “contacts.” Most of us only have the movies we’ve seen. Including Alfred Hitchcock, who used MacGuffen’s to move his plot along, and to fool you at the end of the film.
And, of course, my favorite. Sherlock Holmes. Sherlock’s best tool was his brain. Which he used to OBSERVE. He’d be able to put pieces together no matter what the author was setting out to do; to make you think the crimes were unsolvable.
So, assassination, it wasn’t. A comedy of errors? Heck, if Brad Pitt wants my advice when he makes up a fictious film about this; I’d suggest to him that a COMEDY OF ERRORS occurred.
Now, if the Israelis want to make a film? I’d suggest to them that because so many Israelis speak and read russian. And, ARE russian, as a matter of fact. They are very familiar with the twisted nature of mother russia. And, they’d draw conclusions that the HOUSE OF SAUD is more dangerous because they’ve got the money to seduce the bad guys.
But then you’d have to ask, what do the arabs want? The regular military hardware they buy from us. Or france and england. They’re not short of the latest technology. And, they HIRE talent. So, exactly what could the russians cook up to get hundreds of millions of dollars to flow? Hmm?
And, then when Litvinenko died, all you got to know now, is that other russians, maybe, one hundred, have all been exposed to (airborne?) alpha particles of polonium-210. And, even if they’re healthy now; the medical community is pitching that they could be dead in five years. (Like an AIDS epidemic. Surprised those who were doing nothing more than diddling men’s assholes.) People they didn’t know very well. And, people, who for sex, would lie.
We just don’t know, yet, the proportion of epidemic, to this smuggling attempt. Since innocent people, working in airports, hotels, and restaurants, are discovering they “test positive.” Will we hear more in a few years time? How so? What do you think the elites will report?
By the way, I’d bet the “evidence” IS not just the polonium, but the CONTAINERS. And, I think the bad guys have had enough time to hide this stuff. Toss it in the Thames. Flush it down toilets. Or even? Stuff it throughout the Litvinenko carcass; as he was “carefully placed” within his casket. And, with all the talents available to the artists who do work for morticians, the box wasn’t opened. You were told Litvinenko was in the casket. And, then you learned the Imam and the “temple” didn’t let the box, inside.
Meanwhile, you’re supposed to believe that Litvinenko was offered a sip of tea. And, that’s what killed him. No, he was NOT killed by Earl Grey!
And, the poor restaurant owner probably had sleepness nights, when this story first broke, worried that his business would tank. And, now he’s worried that he and his staff were exposed to cancer. When all Litvinenko did in that restaurant was sit down.
Stop wondering why my posts are long. There’s a lot to cover. And, the TRUTH needs to see daylight.
Carol, I surrender, your posts are looking more interesting (a bit like Dr. Bronner, but interesting).
The cup wouldn’t have to be damaged in any way. Cracks in the glaze of cups isn’t uncommon. That is one reason they are washed at high temperature; so that any bacteria that works its way into any cracks (which might be too fine for the eye to see) and into the porous ceramic are killed. With polonium or any other chemical contaminant, it could soak into the ceramic and remain after washing leaching out with each subsequent use and washing.
Carol, I surrender, your posts
are looking more interesting (a bit like Dr. Bronner, but interesting).
Left by jerry on January 22nd, 2007
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i enjoy carol’s posts too,
but usually struggle to get thru them.
carol could improve her delivery,imo.
puncuation and phrasing,particularly.
i don’t mind implication and innuendo…after all
lots of this stuff(most??) is speculation,not facts.
…but the dead ends,incomplete ideas, and loose-end stories
just become circular rants, and pile up into an incomprehensible mush..
as a example,Carol –
your repeated posts here and at CaptainsQuarters
re: Sgrena/the top Italian Spook/
and the US Captain at the Bagdad airport.
i’ve seen you drop that one(in incomplete form)
into any number of posts on a variety of topics
(other than Sgrena,and her ransom/rescue)…
and yet i still don’t get the BIG point you’ve been hinting at.
Sgrena= leftist Italian journo
Ransom money = terror funding thru a fake kidnapping/rescue
i can surmise,but for G_d sakes,
make your point,if you have one.
cut to the chase.
PS – there’s also something to be said
for getting one’s own blog at a certain point.
Hi, this is my first time here and I enjoy your posts. I’m leaning toward the smuggling theory, but there’s one question that bothers me.
If Litvinenko was involved in the smuggling ring and knew he was poisoned, why didn’t he alert his doctors to po-210 as the cause? He had no way of knowing how badly he was poisoned, so why not try to save himself? To protect his wife and son? Honor amongst thieves?
Something doesn’t add up.
and here’s another example,Carol:
“By the way, I’d bet the “evidence†IS not just the polonium, but the CONTAINERS. And, I think the bad guys have had enough time to hide this stuff. Toss it in the Thames. Flush it down toilets. Or even? Stuff it throughout the Litvinenko carcass; as he was “carefully placed†witho put it there in his casket. And, with all the talents available to the artists who do work for morticians, the box wasn’t opened. You were told Litvinenko was in the casket. And, then you learned the Imam and the “temple†didn’t let the box, inside.”
you’ve implied this multiple times…flesh it out for us:
What’s IN the casket?
Who put it there?
Who told the Imam??
if you have knowledge.sources,
or even a decent hunch….lay it out.
what’s holding you back??
jpnyc,
My guess is Litvinenko thought he could survive the ordeal, and knew if he wasn’t going to there was nothing to be done about it. There is no cure.
So they tried to hide the smuggling ring as long as possible. They hoped the Thallium treatment would help – it didn’t. When that didn’t work then they decided to try the assassination dodge – but only if he died. That is why the statement wasn’t read until AFTER he died.
His price for his silence was the life long care of his family – which by no surprise will make a ton of money of the book and movie rights.
AJ – ,
who,besides Goldfarb, talked directly with Litvenenko ,
and took his deathbed statements??
my impression is :
1) no video statement by Litvenenko
2) deathbed statements and post-mortem wishes in written form only
3) read for public consumption by Goldfarb
= no evidence of Litvenenko as actual source.
That Scaramella showed up in the company of Litvinenko raises my eyebrows. Because Litvinenko was NOT in the tourist business!
Red Herrings are nothing new to detective stories.
What’s unknown is WHY did Scaramella want to go to London, to spend “quality time” with all these russian fellas?
Sure. It’s interesting that Litvinenko died for an unusual poisoning. And, that wherever these russians “sat” they left flying alpha particles.
While we just don’t know HOW.
Or, even who paid for the WHY.
That epidemics fly onto the radar screen? This isn’t knew. The Black Plague that infested Europe in 3 waves; in the 1350’s; got felt down the line. History records lots of changes. From what was probably ONE INFECTED RAT toodling off a ship, that had been carrying sick sailors.
Still, I don’t expect Scotland Yard to “share” why they are now more interested, rather than less interested, in the russians they brought into their own “safe harbor.”
Do russians stand out? The answer is NOT “NYET.”
Are espionage agents all over the place? Yes. More than just a few “badge wavers.” Probably even more than just a few who post to foreign countries.
As to russia being in the “sales department” of some pretty wicked stuff, you bet that’s true! If they could, they’d be selling soil now from Chernobyl, in bottles; like tourists bring back different colored sands, in decorative jars. When they visit deserts. When you visit beaches, you pick up “rocks.”
Besides the alpha particles; and the COMEDY OF ERRORS that had to take place for so much money to change hands; for it all to come to “this.” You’ve got to wonder the mentality where citizens are at risk, because foreigners come, whose only interest is to debase the society. It doesn’t happen in despotic places. Because there the government is authorized to kill. Willy nilly. If you see a show trial it’s done for PR.
As to “source,” all you know is somehow Litvinenko got closer to the “source,” or one of the sauces, to be exposed. And, then he died.
While the richest contestent; the oligarth berekovsky (or whatever his name is), is the one who hired and paid for Goldfarb.
So he calls a PR agent in.
At least you know some dude who had been flying under the radar, suddenly bursts upwards. Into the light.
And, the italians are up to no good! But, gee, if anyone has an ear for the cash register ringing, it seems the italians aren’t wallflowers. They managed to invite themselves to the party.
And, Litvinenko didn’t like Scaramella enough to compromise on “lunch.”
When Litvinenko got sick, so soon after eating sushi, he thought he got poisoned. And, I’ll bet ya, at first he thought it was the raw fish!
Did Litvinenko get reimbursed for his businessman’s lunch?
While the Rolodex is also missing from the “scene of the crime.” But these people contact one another! I’d bet half the reasons for the visits to the hotels, was to get to the phones that were NOT bugged.
There’s no Earl Grey in this story, either.
But just as there was “chatter” prior to 9/11; these days “chatter” doesn’t go unnoticed. Let alone, how espionage attacts people to jobs.
Americans are pikers in comparison to the Chinese. The Israelis. And, the Turks. Byzantine takes on more meaning in the dusty streets and alleys than you might want to realize.
PR? How much has Goldfarb earned, do you think? And, has he burned any of his sources, yet?
I’m afraid to add, isn’t it logical that the po-210, that which was not “dumped into the dishwasher” … was tossed out. And, this, too, (like that rat off the ship in 1350), can lead unsuspecting peoples to their death?
What are the consequences? For the Black Death? The priests died. And, the priests taught French to most of the Continent. In England? The king spoke french at court. And, that early English? Chaucer was born around 1350. The English language changed so much in his own lifetime, he said that his own mother, when he was an old man, would not understand him, speaking.
Consquences measure up over time. PR is just bullshit.
AJ – so why is Panorama claiming Scaramella was not contaminated/poisoned and had zero contamination and that the tests were wrong? I am puzzled by this. Is this just Scaramella now trying to clear himself of any connection to smuggling or what? They sure kept him holed up in the hospital a long time….but there were rumors at the time in the papers that his contamination was a lot less than he had led us to believe.
Espionage, by definition, is all about secrets. Obtained through deceit.
I’m not so sure our own CIA is all that “good” at this stuff. But, maybe, since 9/11, we’ve improved at picking out details “from chatter.”
While I’d bet, for instance, that the Israelis’ are top notch. They need a guy who looks like an arab. Got it. They need someone who understands arabic? Got that, too. Though on dialects, that takes practice!
Since we know from the artsy/tartsy world. That Meryl Streep practices voices. And, she can accent her speech enough, to make her character on screen seem believable.
While the artsy/tartsy crowd depends on good looks; the world of espionage does not. You could go to work, one day, dressed up as a street cleaner.
Now, talking about “fallout.” Fallout, from events. Not fallout from radiation, here. But the russians, who were working this deal, it seems, wide in the open. They probably thought nobody would catch on.
And, today? Any russian (or any male or female who looks close enough to being a russian. And, talks with a foreign accent. Probably has all hotel workers on high alert! Which means even more “stuff” would be noticed. It just doesn’t fall under the radar screen, any longer.
And, when Goldfarb got called, Litvinenko was sick about a week. But not yet dead. And, everybody who was an “insider” was spooked. Had to be. Because “food poisoning doesn’t make your hairs fall out. And, eating raw fish doesn’t give you cancer.
I’ll also venture to guess that the russians didn’t own Litvinenko’s environment, once he made it into the hospital. And, certainly not later on, when the hospital staff began understanding that the guy was exposed to radiation.
In some cancer therapies, where isotopes are put inside the patient, the area gets marked as high risk. And, staff that has to attend these patients are known to be given pills. Designed to offset the harms from the devices; which are in the patient to kill cancer cells. In other words, hospitals are getting rather good at protecting their staffs. Even including special clothing. And, shoe coverings.
It’s called “dealing with bio-hazards.”
While given that espionage is secret, why would Scotland Yard “blab?”
Scaramella? Is he, or is he not, in an italian prison. Did that thread get lost?
That he’d look to see his own name in the paper? Why not? But he’s not telling you the truth. Doing so would probably get him killed.
And, then, in the spy world. There are people who are “double” and “triple” spies. Working their ways into organizations. They could be working for one organization. Let’s say the FBI.
Or in Litvinenko’s case? Berezofsky was paying him. Was Scotland Yard? Don’t laugh. Because you just don’t know! Heck, he could’a still been working for the KGB. (Maybe, they have requirements for their pensions? And, he was putting in the time so that he’d get one of those.) Again. You just don’t know.
But there isn’t an espionage agency out there that’s gonna advertise.
The other piece? Let’s say that now there are 1,000 people “exposed.” But they stretch from russia, to germany, to london. And, you can throw in Scaramella in italy, as well. What you don’t know (like the gent who will later come down with AIDS), is if any of these encounters will reach a reportable illness.
Even today. With AIDS. People LIE. And, some have sex, that to have, they have to lie and claim they’re disease-free.
Given that this stuff has happened to civilians, it’s not like the army. Where there are ways to capture what happens, let’s say, after troops are exposed to Agent Orange. (Ah, but we’re not hearing anything, now, about that, either.)
So, all the information doesn’t reach a singlular collection point. And, the deaths, should they occur, ahead, probably won’t be in the headlines, either.
To get to bold headlines, though, you need a scale that equals the Black Death scourge. That got noticed. But the rat that walked off the ship in the first place, didn’t.
And, we’re still at the beginning …
Sammy Small,
The tea cup seems to have been a temporary vessel to hold the material that spilled on the rug. It was not meant to be a show and tell. It definitely has too much of a signature to be the vessel of Litvinenko’s dosage.
Think of it this way. A tea cup in a micro wave shows no sign of damage, meat gets cooked quickly. That is what I was talking about how something that could impact porcelain would have had to be an amount that would have cooked Litvinenko’s insides in a matter of hours – not weeks.
Jerry,
The tea cup HAD to be scarred because it still had sines of Po-210 weeks after it was used. A liquid Po-210 solution would have washed off the cup easily and left no trace. You can wash Po-210 off your hands and be fine. I don’t need an authoritative source beyond the science and physics. You cannot have the reported signature on the cup given Litvinenko’s tiny dose. I keep saying pay attention to these amounts because that is important. Litvinenko had a dose of 10 millionths of a gram. A gram of Po-210 puts out 140 watts of heat energy. A liquid solution has the same dosage throught out when disolved. So whether it was a teaspoon, tea cup or a gallon the density of Po-210 in solution is the same per ounce. That 10 millions of a gram came from one sip (not likely) or an entire cup (let’s say 8 oz). 8 oz of liquid will not have much of a discernable effect from 10 millionths of a gram.
Basic math. the cup and Litvinenkos dosage are like comparing an ant hill to Mt Everest. If it was close we could have a debate – but it is not even close.
Crosspatch,
The Po-210 can be washed off skin without any concern. Your not going to convince me the washing off of skin is harder than porcelain. Also, it goes back to the fact this cup stands out. Assume Litvinenko drank all the tea. That means the tea contained 10 millionths of a gram of Po-210. That is not a density that would impact the porcelain in any special way. Now recall his dosage is the result of multiple contaminations. The density is therefore even less now.
The fact is once the dishwasher was contaminated, at these levels all the cups should have the same general contamination. This cup stands out. And it stands out not because it has cracks in its porcelain. It stands out because it was in contact with a significant amount of solid Po-210. You cannot apply a dosage of 10 millionths of a gram unless it is disolved in a liquid (humans cannot handle millionths of a gram of a solid). But you cannot impact a tea cup with disolved Po-210 at these levels. They cannot both be true. Neither can the spill and the handprint on the light switch (and if you know about Euopean switch plates this is probably a push plate).
As long as that tea cup was not in the room there were some plausible scenarios. But once it was in the room those scenarios disappeared.
For those who didn’t see the Panorama programme, you didn’t miss much.
Any intelligent questions about Polonium weren’t asked. No surprise there. Any reference to Polonium’s prime purpose . . . er, no. No mention of contamination at the offices of mercenary firms.
It’s just a dramatisation of the PR script.
Key witness for the ‘Putin Did It’ case is Scaramella. Lots of tearful Marina Litvinenko of course.
Well, case closed.
I blogged it here.
And here.
http://www.thecopydude.com/?p=207
AJ, the “teacup” can well be a MacGuffen.
Just as Goldfarb was called in to INVENT A SCRIPT; that would keep Berezofsky’s role looking “innocent,” the truth’s been tampered with, galore. And, espionage, being espionage, I do not expect Scotland Yard, M15 or is it 16? To divulge what they know. And, how they got to know it.
This is partly due to ON-GOING STUFF. For instance, where does this originate “from?” Whose fertile brain cooked up a plot that caters to muslems who want to own “suitcase nukes?” Obviously, there are a few people with access to the Saudi Arabian tent dwellers. And, in a good agency, those agents would be in deep. And, their names never disclosed. PLUS, for safety reasons, politicians would only have access to codes. Not real people. On the receiving ends of paychecks. Who NEVER show up at Langley. And, who give nothing away, when it comes to how they listen. How they then contact their “handlers.” And, what they’d be looking FOR.
However, because Litvinenko is dead. And, Berezofsky got so nervous he NEED to cook a public alibi; did we get a hint that a man was killed by ingesting and inhaling po-210. In quantities found on autopsy. If not before? Since this hairs fell out. And, why assume all of it was “swept up” and tossed in the garbage?
Spooks, who trail their prey are known to “look in the garbage” for stray clues. And, spooks can be disguised to look like street cleaners. So why not janitors? Why not personnel that can easily be slipped into a hospital setting? You don’t think Scotland Yard would have wanted to get in on this case “early?”
What if po-210, itself, is a MacGuffin? You got proof it ain’t?
Of course, one of the reasons it seems the smugglers were willing to handle the po-210 so cavalierly came from a mistaken belief that none of them would be “found out.” Let alone exposed to cancer, and death.
Smugglers could be just as “stupid” as gay men in bath houses. Because even after AIDS was shown to occur when an infected man had sex with one that was not; the HIV got passed … with nothing more than a man sticking his “rod” up someone else’s behind. You learn, over and over again, that doing dangerous things, without taking precautions … let alone using caution … Happens. Until you learn that by “not noticing the rat that left the ship, that bit the dog, that bit the man, the Black Plague in Europe would not have caused a calamity.
That people in the 1350’s remained convinced, however, that the Jews “did it,” is also true. As Jewish communities, prone to following cleanliness laws, usually escaped the plague, only to be killed by angry neighbors. (And, this was fanned in church, as well.)
While now another religion has picked up this fatal banner. And, they have no trouble waving it around! Can you imagine that iran can threaten to nuke Israel, and brag it can “wipe out Jews” on a first-strike basis … and no diplomat steps forward to ostracize the crap out of these lunatics?
But that’s life.
And, the fringe element of “unassimilated garbage, flows freely in the Streets of democratic states. They get their free ride like all parasites. On the bodies that are bigger than they are.
And, even when the rumors fly, you still can’t stop what they can purchase.
Except rumors are a two way street. And, that imam, with the casket kept in the parking lot; also spoke to a knowledge of radiation that had him so scared, he stopped the box from being inside his “temple.”
What did that imam know?
As to Marina Oswald, or whatever this new russian character’s name is; married as she was to Litvinenko; she never told the truth, either. (And, the truth? Oswald worked for the CIA.) Litvinenko also had more than one “employer.”
Scaramella shows up. How’d he get invited in? (So you know there was information out there that got tapped into.) And, you know, yes my dears, from Sgrena’s involvement IN Iraq, working FOR terrorists, and NOT for the USA’s position; you now KNOW, there was an American Colonel stationed at the get-away plane to “wave his badge” … and stop American soldiers from preventing the plane to fly. (Yes. In the military, if your badge puts you above the coppers who show up; you can forbid them access to information. And, this was done, too, in Dallas.) At least you know the one-bullet theory from that assassination was government approved BULLSHIT.
Some here don’t think Sgrena’s involved.
But then, I know Sgrena’s car carried a dead body; after it refused to stop at a checkpoint. And, once in Rome, that dead body got a lot more pomp at his funeral, than Litvinenko’s body saw.
When you’re checking rumors, you should keep the details you believe to be true, handy. It helps ya from being fooled by BULLSHIT. When the BULLSHIT is just a rumor. Designed to throw you off track.
And, beyond the tea cup, now. Investigators KNOW there was more radioactive materials out there. Can’t account for it, as far as we know, either.