Jan 26 2007
A Plant In A Teapot?
The Blotter news blog is claiming that UK Police discovered a critical clue in the Polonium 210 trail that criss-crossed London last fall. But it took over a month after the fateful poisoning for that supposed clue to the death of Alexander Litvinenkp to show up:
British officials say police have cracked the murder-by-poison case of former spy Alexander Litvinenko, including the discovery of a “hot” teapot at London’s Millennium Hotel with an off-the-charts reading for Polonium-210, the radioactive material used in the killing.
A senior official tells ABC News the “hot” teapot remained in use at the hotel for several weeks after Litvinenko’s death before being tested in the second week of December. The official said investigators were embarrassed at the oversight.
Emphasis mine. First off, it is clear this tea pot WAS NOT under police evidence control since it was in use until mid December sometime. But like the tea cup, it is supposedly very ‘hot’ – showing a significant amount of Po-210. But this is just the same problem, physics-wise, as with the tea cup reporting – it is too hot to have been the likely source of the poisoning of Litvinenko. It is hard to tell, because we do not know Litvinenko’s dosage, but it seems to me the pot and the cup are still many times more contaminated than possible to be the vessel to deliver the miniscule amounts of Po-210 to Litvinenko.
The problem is the fact that mircroscopic amounts of Po-210 can kill, but these same amounts could never scar or permanently impact porcelain containers like the way the tea cup and tea pot apparently are. Let me use another form of radiation as an example to show the different responses different materails can have to the radiation. Microwaves are another form of radiation which can harm biological tissues. In small, low density amounts they will not harm the body, but at high densities they sure as well can cook up a slab of meat quickly – as can be seen in a microwave oven. That is because the rays excite water molecules and transfer heat energy to them, causing the water to heat up and cook the cells of the meat. Notice that your coffee cup is impervious to the microwaves, allowing your coffee to warm but the cup to show no damage.
Litvinenko was killed by something in the range of 0.5-10 millionths of a gram. That range is 10 – 200 times the lethal limit. While this amount of Po-210 ingested in the body will cook your cells and kill them, this same amount sitting on your skin will not and can be washed off with water, even in solid form. So the small amounts needed to kill are insignificant towards impacting a material like porcelain.
But we can look at pure power levels as well. A gram of Po-210 can generate around 140 watts of energy, which is quite a lot for an amount of material the size of a packet of sweetener. That means that packet of sweetener could light two 60 watt bulbs with some energy to spare. That amount of Po-210 might, and I repeat ‘might’, be enough to actually effect porcelain – but I have my doubts. Porcelain is a very tough material. Ceramics are used to protect the Space Shuttle from the super furnace hear of re-entry. While those are special ceramics, the point is still the same – the material is tough. But I do know one thing for sure. Porcelin is tougher than skin. So how is it an amount that would not kill you if it was on your hand can also ‘mark’ porcelain? It cannot.
Litvinenko’s dosage was, at worse, 10 millionths of a gram. Assuming that dose came from a half a cup of tea and the tea pot held 6 cups, that means the total amount of Po-210 in the tea cup would be 120 x 10e-6 = 1200 x 10e-6 or 1.2 thousands of a gram of Po-210 in the entire pot. This is a reasonable assumption because you can multiply the assumptions by ten in either direction to bound ‘reality’. No tea pot holds 60 cups of tea, so that is out. And one twentieth of a cup of tea is probably the minimum ‘taste’ someone would take (as opposed to the assumed 1/2 a cup we used). These orders of magnitude bound the realistic amounts of Po-210 disolved in the cup of tea.
At 1.2 thousandths of a gram, our nominal estimate, the Po-210 only generates 0.14 watts (round off the 1.2 to 1.0) of energy – total. Multiply this by ten to get the worst case boundary we are still talking about only 1.4 watts in the total tea pot. And in a liquid the energy is still being emitted over all the atoms in the liquid, which are quite spread out when dissolved. The point is Po-210 is like microwave energies. Amounts that would boil human cells wouldn’t do anything to porcelain.
So, stepping back from the physics again, what does this all mean? To me it means a tea pot the registers “off the charts” (as the Blotter reports) for Po-210 could not be the vessel for the amounts seen in Litvinenko. I also wonder how this tea pot showed up at the Hotel over a month after the actual poisoning and did not contaminate a lot more guests with serious levels. We believe the dishwasher was the prime source for most of the people who had slightly elevated Po-210 levels since simply flushing with water can remove the substance many surfaces. But this tea pot looks suspicious to me.
Did someone tip police off so that is why they came back in mid December to ‘discover’ this magic tea pot? Is this where some of the Po-210 I believe was still passing through London on one of possibly three consignments during October? Did the smugglers have a fourth, later shipment come in during November, just in time to be used in a tea pot? If someone could drop Po-210 into Litvinenko’s drink to kill him, what makes police think someone couldn’t do the same thing to a tea pot to frame Lugovoi?
There is no link between this pot and Lugovoi if it has been out in the public being used for a over a month since the poisoning, and at least two weeks since the death of Litvinenko. They have no way of knowing if this pot was contaminated after the poisoning to deflect the investigation. The tea pot is too hot to be the source of Litvinenko’s poisoning, and too convenient to be believable. If the tea pot had shows signs it contained a solution of relative equal dose as that find in Litvinenko, I could buy it. But ‘off the charts’ doesn’t sound like 10 millionths of a gram to me.
Addendum: Let me just get to the bottom line. Since the tea pot was not found for over a month after Litvinenko was supposedly poisoned on Nov 1, then the authorities have no idea when the tea pot was contaminated during that time period. Not a single clue when.
66 Responses to “A Plant In A Teapot?”
Leave a Reply
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Now, it’s a teaPOT, and not a teaCUP? What a tempest then, you can get in a teapot.
Scotland Yard is being run by Lewis Carroll. It’s Alice in Wonderland, over there.
Which isn’t very surprising. Since I just read Mark Steyn’s “passage” of Britian’s last great detective. His name was Jack Slipper. I kid you not. And, he found Mr. Biggs. (The Great Train Robbery guy.) Who got out of jail, after being sentenced, by using a rope ladder. And, after that got him over the wall. He fell into a furniture truck that had a hole on top.
But since then the muslims control. And, everything reasonable has been outlawed. I guess big eared charlie is worried that his mum’s reign could end with her. So he’s converted to islam. (Like his uncle, the guy that gave up his throne for a lady that it was said also had a penis), wasn’t just because he was colluding with hitler, either.
Since, it’s london. And, you gotta squat in front of the queen. So she can run a sword over your shoulders. It seems the elites just love being knighted. And, that’s why there isn’t gonna be much to improve upon.
While I still think the POT was used to discard EVIDENCE. And, to hell with anyone else.
Litvinenko wasn’t assassinated. And, in russia lots of people die because they’ve been exposed to radiation. Some? Because they don’t want to leave Chernobyl. And, go back there for the “quiet.” Others? Because they’ve served on russian subs. Those that just don’t stay underwater, tend to radiate their crews, anyway. But nobody makes a big production over it.
As to the smugglers, it’s the story you don’t know that’s really interesting. Who CAME UP WITH THE IDEA that graduating to “suitcase nukes,” is possible with the stock of martys, looking for virgins, still out there. (But, darn that imam. Got threatened by Litvinenko’s casket. While the teaPOT was “still in service.”) Aw, arn’t those british so frugal, huh?
You wonder how much “collateral damage” is ahead? And, Litvinenko will only turn out to be PATIENT ZERO.
Anyway, it seems like the bad guys wanted to get rid of much of the evidence (not swallowed, hook, line and sinker, by Litvinenko.) So they go back to the hotel. Where they scamper about in the wide open. And, they slip the contents of tea out of the teaPOT. NO EARL GREY, folks! It’s as if the smugglers are also the greatest of scam artists.
And, the smugglers are at least teaching you that in our world, “you don’t have to knock some secret door, three times. And, say Joe sent ya.”) Ya just go, and use your plastic card. And, take a hotel room in a five star hotel! It’s that easy! And, when you’re inside? The phones aren’t tapped, either.
By the way, I always thought drinking tea was to drink poison.
Couple things:
1. I believe it was Litvinenko’s wife in a recent interview that said that Litvinenko had tea. The tea had already been prepared and that he didn’t drink much of it because it was cold. Now if Litvinenko had only a sip or two from the tea and received 50 to 100 times the fatal dose, then the amount used in the tea is significant.
2. If the pot from which the tea came is contaminated, I might suspect that everyone else that had tea from that pot at that meeting also became just as contaminated as Litvinenko.
Something doesn’t smell right about all of that.
I suggest you employ Occam’s Razor in your deliberations, Mr. Strata. Your voluminous theorizations on the source of Litvinenko’s poisoning are filled with assumptions and declarations that may or may not be based in fact:
“. . . it is too hot to have been the likely source . . .” – based on what? The fact you had Raisen Bran for breakfast this morning?
“it is hard to tell – we do not know Litvinenko’s dosage” – exactly, so your suppositions are based upon . . .?
“it seems to me the pot and cup are many times . . .” – it SEEMS to you? Are you a forensic physicist?
Again –
– To YOU it means – again – if you’re not a nationally recognized forensic physicist – what does it matter what your OPINION is? It’s like someone saying they’re not an aeronatuical engineer, but that space shuttle thingie doesn’t look to them like it will fly.
Again – Occam’s Razor – a Russian dies from Polonium poisoning – he is known to have met with a shadowy Russian agent – and a teapot at the hotel shows radioactivity – but the idea that Litvinenko was simply poisoned is what? – just too simple too believe? Because your conspiracy theory is getting so weighty it appears on the verge of collapse from its own weight.
Criminals don’t care what harms they do!
I’ll bet that the smuggling ring wanted to get rid of their evidence. And, had no trouble going back to the hotel room they’ve already used. Just booking it IN BROAD DAYLIGHT!
Once in the room, they called “hospitality” for room service. And, ordered up a pot of tea. They thru this down the toilet, I’d bet. And, stuck the contraband, NOW IN LIQUID FORM, into the teaPOT. Left the room. Closed the door.
And, let housekeeping (and perhaps people from room service), come up and “clean up the dishes.”
There ya go. Stuffed into the dishwasher in a routine manner. And, subjecting everyone who was in the room to deadly exposure.
Add to this that the media doesn’t tell the truth. They’re wall-to-wall propaganda. FOR THE BAD GUYS! You’ll never see follow-ups getting detailed by the media. So, you’ll jump to the conclusion that “nothing happened, except Litvinenko was “assassinated.”
Talk about the bad guys operating in broad daylight!
Of course, the martyrs, so far, if the imam in that london mosque is to believed, happen to be terrified of radiation touching THEM. How’d that happen?
It also means, fer shur, that the “plot,” whatever it was hit some snags. And, may have gotten “hung up” because Litvinenko has demonstrated the DOWN SIDE of handling this crap.
Occam’s Razor doesn’t waste time on crooks. It’s there for scientists to use; when explanations get drawn out and complicated. (And, along came Einstein. With one equation. E equals MC/squared. And, opened Pandora’s Box.)
The russians have reason to lie! The italians and the french are in cohoots, too, to destroy at least this President. If not much, much more. But it’s the muslems who get shy with fears about being radiated by a corpse in a box.
Hello, Occam. I think the bad guys met with a severe setback to their plans. But the truth? It will never tell. Everybody’s out there on their own. And, Alfred Hitchcock is dead. So we won’t get a very scary movie, to move a lot of revenge-seeking blacks, browns, lesbians and gays, to get off their duffs. And, join us in at least improving news gathering for the sakes of our kids. And, grandkids.
We are, in fact, alone.
CP,
The reason I looked at one tenth half a cup (which is the one twentieth) was to allow for ten times the dosage from a sip. But the difference between 10 millionths of a gram and 100 millionths of gram is not enough to affect porcelain. The energy goes from .14 watts to 1.4 watts, not enough to damage porcelain. Remember, in a liquid the Po-210 atoms float freely if in solution and are evenly distributed in the liquid. And at these amounts the only way to ‘handle’ the material is in solution. This will not leave any mark on the porcelain.
Now, if it was a solid massed at the bottom then it is possible. But lets play that math. If the dose was 10 millionths of a gram, but it was through a sip that represented one hundredth of the amount (being way too conservative) in the tea pot then the total in suspension would be 1 thousandth of a gram. And lets assume only 1 percent of the material in the bottom was being released into the liquid, that means the total amount is 100 thousandths or .1 percent grams. Still too small to handle or require mutilple trips.
No, if Litvinenko’s dose was in a tea as a poison it would be disolved, not some lump of metal dropped in. Possible? Yes. Likely. Not really.
The nuclear smuggling theory is the simplest explanation for all known facts. Such theory is indeed the application of occam’s razor. As for the teapot, its authenticity must be questioned given the investigators’ suspicious and unexplained failure of protocol in the collection of evidence.
Hey, AJ, you’re in the news:
http://www.russiablog.org/2007/01/was_alexander_litvinenko_the_v.php
And, it could have started when he “inhaled.” Or, after “washing his hands,” as a precaution after handling the stuff; didn’t think anything of picking his nose. And, eating the booger.
By the way, smuggling really tiny bits runs into a logic flaw. You could have MAILED THIS STUFF! It could have gone by post. Just dropped off in a postal box. Arriving as an innocent (but expected) letter.
Here you have grown men, passengers on airlines. Sitting in seats. And, this stuff left the seats of their pants.
You also have Kotvon, I think, visiting his ex-wife in Hamberg; and managing to spill this stuff on his own kids! Wow, is that hard to explain by “tea cup fulls.”
Let alone, grown men, up to mischief, getting done in because they “stopped to have a spot of tea.”
More interesting to me, however, is how OUT IN THE DAYLIGHT these transactions seem to be! Smugglers usually look for out-of-the-way places. They don’t register in rooms under their own name! Even Scaramella, the “tourist,” didn’t have to find the “hide out.”
And, russian men having time to go to restaurants aren’t even sneaking time “off of the time clock!” Their jobs don’t seem to have them doing any work at all! Outside of homosexuals, whom else do you know who “cruise?”
Of course, math is interesting. Especially the math that would explain HOW MUCH MONEY you could get if you were a “lucky participant.”
Of course, the hotel staff, and others, aren’t gonna turn out to be so “lucky.”
But Scotland Yard? Where were they? Because if they were looking around, you’d see the bad guys going to ground. And, also setting about MacGuffins, wherever they can!
While ideas like this don’t just pop up on their own! Somebody’s got to think this one up. And, start the ball rolling.
While everything out of russia is BLACK MARKET! Heck, they can’t even manufacture pencils. (Okay. Vodka. But russian vodka’s cheap enough, the bootleggers would go broke if they tried to compete.)
So, you’re back to square one.
Who’d want this stuff?
Why was the imam spooked with fears about getting radiated from Litvinenko’s coffin?
And, HOW MUCH MONEY was involved?
What did Scaramella respond to, except that he must have smelled huge amounts of money.
Ah. And, don’t forget Turki’s flight out of DC. It’s very unusual for a diplomatic-pants-dancer to flee. Heck. he’s got diplomatic immunity! Yet, the guy RAN. In one hell of a hurry. Should’a made people suspicious, if you were asking me.
Ya know, in russia, a lot of smuggling scum succumb to radiation poisoning. As to sailors who sail on their nuclear subs. Russia really doesn’t have OSHA. OSHA would’a made everyone wear hats.
CP,
Yeah, I saw that! Sort of wild hey? This little old slice of cyber space (which is enormous!).
Cheers – AJStrata
I thought at one time that the teacup itself was a plant but it could have been used to hold a leaking container or the contents of a leaky container. However, I do think the teapot is a plant. How could have the police missed this piece of evidence. How embarrassing. I’ll bet they investigate how this pot came to the surface of this investigation and if it actually was in the Pine Bar kitchen for the last 2 and 1/2 months. Sounds fishy to me. Does anyone think Bereszovsky’s PR machine is not capable of planting this pot. Hell, the people behind this PR machine are capable of planting the cup too. Also, I should think that if the pot had been in the kitchen all this time more people would be poisoned bigtime.
Oh, great, that’s that same lame argument that got OJ off. The LA cops suspicious and unexplained failure of protocol.
There’s a reasonable argument for you.
I agree with Soothsayer. Putin poisoned his critics to silence them. The British police just didn’t find this teapot right away.
I believe the professional investigators. Perhaps they don’t tell reporters everything because they need to protect their investigation, but I think the basic outlines of the story are correct.
I’m with Snapple on this. These investigators aren’t politicians – they’re just guys dong their job. IF they’re lying – then WHY are they lying? You’ve got to crate a pretty ambitious conspiracy matrix to justify it – and the other alternative is that Putin – a former bloody-handed KGB agent – ask the Chechens -had somebody whacked. Not exactly hard to believe.
Altho George did say he had looked into Putin’s eyes and “was able to get a sense of his soul.”
Snapple says:
“Putin poisoned his critics to silence them”
But Polonium doesn’t silence anyone. The noise made by Litvinenko is ample proof of that. Which is why no-one would ever use Polonium for that purpose and no one ever has.
Snapple says:
“I believe the professional investigators.”
We don’t know who is leaking to the media (but I think we can guess.)
The ’sources’ are unnamed and unverifiable. Moreover, their story changes with the wind.
Today, the prime suspect is Lugovoi. Only last week, it was a mystery Russian called Vladislav.
Remember: Mario Scaramella had 5 times the lethal dose of Polonium. Now, Aldermaston – Britain’s premier nuclear weapons establishment – apparently ‘made a mistake’.
The ‘basic outlines of the story’ were concocted by a PR agency with an agenda. And so far, there are no credible facts to support it.
Putin’s more efficient at assassinating rivals and enemies, than Scotland Yard is at collecting evidence.
If the hinge to this story is that “Putin did it,” I think this information is NOT showing up in the last reel.
In other words? Putin didn’t do it. But Scotland Yard is clueless. And, there are a lot of people who WANT Putin to have been in charge; only because that would make this crap easier to solve.
But for starters, according to this theory, Putin got “only one.” And, brought way too much attention to himself, as a louse. That “kiss” to the little boy’s tummy, however, puts him in the leage of pedophiles. Would you explain the motive as Putin’s hate for the world? So thousands could get exposed to radiation? All in a lucky shot that got one guy, because he didn’t wash his hands off well enough? That’s on par with making a lot out of Bush using Purell hand cleaner after shaking hands with the multitudes. And, for me, it doesn’t wash.
I still think this was a smuggling operation. That called forth the black marketeers in russia, who’ve got lots of access to “old soldiers” and the storehouses where the soviet’s old nukes are decaying away. (You’d also have to wonder, since they were used for display purposes. IN PARADES. If those old nukes were “stage sets” … or the real McCoy? Because from what we’ve learned about out own state department, those jerks wanted to be fooled.
Chernobyl should’a taught ya something.
And, the fact that the shelves in stores in russia are for the most part EMPTY, should have taught you lots about russia’s inability to manufacture anything, including pencils, it could sell to global markets. But fear? You can sell that! Just gather up suspicious “containers.” And, you’ll find people who will answer your ads that appear in gun magazines. Or other “queer” places. Since not all advertisements are for empty apartments. Or lost dogs.
You’ll also notice that London is CRAWLING with spies. If DC is. And, our government doesn’t have a watch dog operation in place, to spy back, then why do we have Homeland Security? Why haven’t we plugged the holes? Because London’s rife with them. And, their police? More handicapped, it seems, than the Keystone Cops. Only it’s not funny.
The teapot would make sense as a receptical that was used to “throw away” evidence, AFTER Litvinenko died. Perhaps, the russian smugglers not only called Goldfarb for PR cover; they also did something terrible with the crap they had on hand. Now that the light was shone onto this “assassination?” You’ll just never know for sure.
But take heed. OUT IN THE OPEN! Since when do spies go about doing things OUT IN THE OPEN? You’d think they’d be well versed in hiding what they’re doing from passers-by. Here? Not even from hotel staff! Teacups, indeed.
I’m only old enough to remember this in the vaguest way. But in the 1950’s, a russian spy was caught in NY City. I think his name was “ABLE.” And, he was caught because he used a fake nickel to buy a newspaper. This was turned over to the cops. (The nickel’s body pulled apart, so “ABLE” had been using it for decades (?), as a dummy nickel, in which he could pass secrets. Then, by mistake, he handed it off to buy a newspaper. Caught. And, convicted.
Maybe, here, something similar? Spies who felt comfortable enough not to care; chose 5-star hotels, to check into. Under their own name. No disguises. Familiar with the bar staff. Very jolly fellows. BROAD DAYLIGHT. When most people “at work” are also close enough to time clocks, that they’re not gad-about-ing in fine hotels for their wages. You do see a difference between the russians and the hotel staff, no? Where do you get jobs where you don’t have to turn up at a desk “to go to work?”
You’d think at least, a little surreptitiousness, would have been TRAINED INTO the spy-workers. It’s missing here. Even all the way up the chain, to the itallians. Go figa. No wonder Amb. Wilson (nee Munchausen), had no trouble “blending in” with this crowd!
It is not credible that investigators could have missed the teapot. They were too fastidious about the rest of the investigation. I had always assumed there was no teapot, that he had a single cup of tea with teabag. If the hotel had teapots, they had to have been checked.
Now ask this: What would be the single best way to discredit the smuggling theory? A tainted teapot, if authentic it would be a smoking gun of a murder.
How hard would it be to go back and contaminate a teapot? It must be the easiest thing in the world, and now, months and thousands of guests later, we’ll never know who did it.
One teapot is not evidence of multiple assassination attempts, nor does it explain contamination at multiple locations. Unless they carried the teapot around with them in case Sasha suddenly wanted a ‘hot drink’
Since they have already put out the teacup theory, why the new and suspect addition of the ‘overlooked’ teapot?
I think it’s just another invention to keep the momentum of the propaganda story going – like last weeek’s ‘mystery man, over 30, with a limp and three passports’ and ‘using Polonium to heat the water’.
Interesting that this plant was leaked to ABC – the British press is running with Lugovoi as the prime suspect.
Here’s a teaPOT “choice.” You can only choose ONE.
The teaPOT was a method of discarding the collected po-210. Dumped in by “who knows who?” But with a total disregard to life. Since AFTER the “dump” the teaPOT went to the dishwasher. And, got used over-and-over-again. UP AHEAD? Guests who ordered “a spot of tea” from room service, stand a pretty good chance of coming down with leukemia; or some other types of cancer, within the next few years? (What’s the time line? Broader than five years, after exposure? On par with smoking 3-packs a day?) NOBODY KNOWS!
Choice #2: The teaPOT was “discovered” contaminated, by “alert staff,” as soon as the dump of the contents was made. No harms intended, or any that will be “received by subsequent quests.”
Because Goldfarb threw out the PR, you’re also given a choice. He did so to “halp?” Or to confuse those who’d come into this story? Ya know? Convincing people that Putin is a monster has legs all its own. Doesn’t have to fit the plot.
While MacGuffins, by Alfred Hitchcock’s definition, come out early in the unfolding story. Designed to get the audience captivated enough, that they sit on the edges of their chairs. In other words? A plot device that manages to get the story going, by deceitfully covering up what will become exposed, later.
The other thing to notice? IF the russian smugglers couldn’t care less about the well being of ordinary citizens, then they’re just like smugglers of old, who sold alcohol; once Prohibition set it, that turned people BLIND.
An interesting development took place around 1990. When about 60,000 men in Havana, went BLIND. And, Castro accused the USA of sending poisons out of Guantanamo. We didn’t see these stories in America. But they were all over the tubes everyplace else!
Worried, the CIA contacted an American eye doctor. Very famous guy. And, charged him with going to Cuba, with a delegation, so that these charges could be CONFIRMED. Or not.
The doctor went. (I already told you he told a bunch of Cal Tech students and professors about this trip. Around 1996. Because I typed up the tape from that lecture. So, I know.)
About 100 scientists went to Cuba to investigate. And, this professor met Castro, in person. Found him very bright. But also flawed. Because to be the brightest man in Cuba, Castro killed anyone who showed signs of being smarter. I heard this, too. On that tape.)
Anyway, it wasn’t a virus. And, it had nothing to do with Guantanamo. But in fact there really were about 60,000 blind people, in beds, in Havana’s hospitals. Yet, at no time did the wives of these men get sick. And, another interesting fact? BOTH EYES! (Viruses and cancers don’t attack BOTH EYES!)
So the question of “alcohol poisoning” came up. And, again, the scientist shot this down. Why? Because cubans KNOW HOW TO MAKE BOOZE! They don’t make “bathtub gin that can kill ya.
But the cause? LACK OF GREEN VEGETABLES IN THE DIET. This blindness epidemic broke out as soon as russia was kaput. And, left cuba. Not knowing any better, Castro “sold off” the green vegies. And, the population was STARVED of essential vitamins. Which caused men (from 16 to 65) to go blind in both eyes.
The recommended cure was to give everybody vitamin shots. Even Castro dropped his pants. And, this scientist said what’s “good” about dictatorships is that the despot in charge can tell everyone they’re gonna get shots. And, nobody dares say “no.” So the problem was solved. (Except that the remnants of the blindness? Cancelled out a spot directly in the center of the eye. And, how did the lack of vitamins do this? Because NOT HAVING THEM caused the smallest nerves in the body, to erode.)
I tell you this, because even our government FEARED that the blindness was somehow caused by the Americans. That’s why the CIA went to this doctor. And, didn’t let him refuse. Because they even went to his bosses at USC Medical College; and arranged everything.
Governments are able to do things average citizens cannot.
And, this whole story, so far, is not being challenged by governments. Because they don’t want to give you clues that are really, really secret.
Still, before the facts come in, there are camps. Just like with Libby. Some people think he’ll be convicted. Where I give Fitzgerald the best shot at having the jury hang.
But like a topical event, what’s happening now? Will be discussed for a long time to come. Because the media is handling Plame’s “story” like it was all gonna be just bad PR for the President. That’s just the way the world IS. And, it’s the reason restaurants serve food by offering menues.
I’m going to predict that a tea tin was also found in room 411, I’ll predict that:
if it’s radioative, AJ will say the metal was scarred by alpha radiation from massive amounts of radiation (that no one could survive), then go on to envisaging chunks of Po210 smuggled in the tin, dropped on the floor, inhaled, ingested, inspected, and excreted, the whereabouts of majority of this Po210 are presetly unknown.
if it’s not radioactive, AJ will clain that a capsule containing horrendous amounts of Po210 was smuggled in the tea tin and later removed in this hotel room (quite sensibly, the perfect place to toy with grams of Po210), thus leading to the massive spill on the floor and the massive contamination of multiple hotel rooms around London, and… the present location of these chunks of Po210 are still unknown, but they’re out there somewhere.
Well, Jerry, a “tea tin” is just the type of container you could stash in your knap-sack, as you pass through customs. To enter England.
Hitchcock would use it. And, then in filming hotel rooms, he’s sweep around with his lens. And, linger on a “spot of tea” products. Even including a silver spoon.
All that’s known, however, is that Litvinenko is dead from radiation poisoning. Some thing this was “administered.” While I believe in was “accidental.” Heck, leave it to the russians! Where chernobyl was also a work accident.
And, russian doctors, because of Chernobyl, have been seeing the results of radiation poisonings for years, and years.
Nope. Not seen in the West. Probably because OSHA has set up safety rules, that even go far beyond wearing hard hats.
As to whatever mischief was “UP,” it’s the bad guys, themselves, who called in Goldfarb. Was Berezovsky being so cooperative when he reached for the phone, and called in a PR agent? Or was he worried?
And, if you were inside the Den of Thieves, now, what would be their major worries?
Goldfarb, in my estimation, was there to offset a billionnaire’s worries that he was gonna be slammed by thedisclosure of “unauthorized” smuggling of a radioactive material. I’m also sure that whatever was there, is all gone, now.
Oh, yes. And, that frightened imam! Spooked by fears of radiating his whole flock. Did it come just from the chatter? Whoever “planned this caper” was none too worried about “exposure.” Since everything was done with lots of money; out in the open And, when the PR blitz started, Scaramella and the sushi restaurant showed up as likely “sources.” Well, that was the work of the bad guys! Still, Scaramella doesn’t seem interested in opening the books on this mad adventure! Only in getting himself out of the limelight.
I’ll presume on the next operation; if there is gonna be one; then the trail will be harder to find. And, 5-star hotel rooms won’t be used, either. But, um, “tins of tea?” That could still be green-lighted.
People who really indulge in tea drinking don’t use Lipton tea bags! I’d bet hotel staff weren’t put off by seeing a guest bringing in their own stash. All that room service had to provide was the POT. Full of hot water. And, empty, clean cups.
And, the reason for the good hotels? They offer the best service. Room service. And, otherwise.
Meanwhile, the truth is buried with Litvinenko. (Well? The truth got buried with Oswald, as well.)
It’s interesting how we’ve learned to laugh at airport security. So that around thanksgiving; at a time when lots of people fly. Word went out that “women had to drink their own breast milk.”
Oh. And, you couldn’t carry your Starbucks container on board.
People got angry. And, I like said, many among us laughed at this strange new ritual being demanded of passengers. Yet, it’s at the very time the po-210 was hightailing it through transit. (No. We don’t know if there’s a trail in DC. Because that information hasn’t been slipped out to the press.) But we do know someone whose name sounds like “smells” was in DC. And, Goldfarb is an American PR agent. With “that” call placed here. We also know Turki, the ambassador with “gold connections.” Was asked to leave. And, he left pronto-tonto. Even though he had diplomatic immunity. He got OUT as fast as whoever kicked him, managed to place that kick on his butt.
But we never know why.
Seems our government accepts, and takes for granted, that our best defenses is not to explain to passengers WHY there’s suddenly this “new rule.” Only that it fell into place. And, even a nursing mother wasn’t beyond suspicion.
Well, who do ya call when you need to buy a “clue?”
Jerry,
It’s not my fault physics is not one of your strong suits.
AJStrata
Hey, I thought my spallation explanation for the mercury trail was pretty ingenious, albeit learning on the fly:
http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/3154
Drduge is running the headline on the tea being the poison. The way Livinenko got killed. Which just shows ya the media takes what Goldfarb feeds it.
And, Berezovsky hired “the best.”
Doesn’t make a good case though for the “cause.” Only that the media holds the horn. And, Scotland Yard couldn’t find its collective ass, using two hands. Sacco & Venzetti, however, were remembered for being railroaded, more so that for being guilty. That miscarriage of justice, done by the media, also lasted a long time.
For all we know? The media loses steam. And, lawyers are still not respected. Or, like the old joke goes: “You heard about the lawyer and the skunk that got runover? There were skid marks in front of the skunk.”
Genlemen,
the whole discussion has no sense because that media does not provide you with the background information. Both stories, the teapot in the hotel room (not bar) and a mysterious 4th man, originate not from the police but from Gordievsky in an interview with a Russian daily Moskovsky Komsomolets. But you never read about that in US and UK media. The story of the “real poisoner” dying in 3 years from cancer is also an invention of Gordievsky. He is a “senior official” in the ABC News report. Well, he is, retired, a MI6 agent. Gordievsky had to admit during the interview that in was just his private theory, and full of contradictions, and it has nothing to do with the police investigation.
Ermit: What’s a “Komsomolets?” Is it a rank?
And, M16 was home to Kim Philby, and his 4 pals. Came as close as the soviets could, to a total takeover of British intelligence. Was also the reason MacArthur’s plans in korea were always avaiable to the russians, BEFORE they were executed. Including the fact that truman HATED MacArthur. And, bought into the UN’s “stalemate.” As did Nehru. So the diplomatic pouches have been run against the USA, since 1948.
The “plant” in its original, is the work of Goldfarb. Seems the media is purchasable. The “right” people. For “money.” Like a distorted box of Clue.
In America, this “game” is now at trial. Where the media players (heavy with NBC heads: Andea Mitchell, Russert) have played with the Plame “game.” But it was to TAKE OUT BUSH, from office. This didn’t happen in 2004. So what exists now are CYA attempts. And, Fitzgerald “case” which went off track as soon as he decided he didn’t have to charge anyone with leaking Plame’s name. (But that’s what was supposed to be FOUND.) The original indictment will not be shown to this jury!
Then, you can look at what men with access to the media do when they get into trouble. WOODWARD? He tried to push Fitzgerald away from Libby. He said he got the information EARLIER than Fitzgerald’s time line indicates. AND, he says it was knowledge held by reporters.
Seems so odd that reporters wouldn’t report the news. But would work to take out this president. And, notice: NOT JUST DAN RATHER!
Of course, it should be interesting to see Judith Miller on the stand. The woman got screwed by Fitzgerald. And, sent to jail. When he lied to Judge Tatel. NO PENALTY.
Have you noticed how Nifong lied to the judge? And, the Duke professors came out and also attempted to disparage the Lacrosse Students? You think anyone’s getting nervous over there? You think Duke Law School is a condendah? Worked hard to be “just like haarvard.”
We’ve yet to learn what happens when the “brand” gets to lose value.
And, Martha Stewart took her wallet off the table because she thought the appeal, even if her jail sentence was vindidated, WASN’T WORTH THE COST! In her fashion, she slapped the lawyers. And, I agree with her. She couldn’t buy anything that would be worth the money.
Libby? Lots of people have sent him money.
And, we still don’t know about the books, ahead. (Or if the President will just “free” the papers. Removing all their “secrecy seals.”) Why not? He’s a man of action. And, he knows WHY the media thought they’d get Kerry elected on this crap.
The left was laughing, first. That’s all you know.
And, Litvinenko died from MULTIPLE EXPOSURES to radiation. Just like the folks, who came in to put out the Chernobyl fires, did.
The only gripe that I have with putin is that he doesn’t let the information regarding lots of chaps who’ve died from radiation poisoning in russia, come out.
Doesn’t mean that imam in London wasn’t totally freaked out. I’d bet that Litvinenko’s coffin was kept in the parking lot BECAUSE there are muzzy stories about beards that fell out. Radiation poisoning? I bet it was in the chit-chat. And, while martyrs are found who will put on the bomb belts that the mosque keeps away from prying eyes; this same truth is not available to “containers” that contain radioactive materials.
None of us know why.
None of us know if it was easy to carry po-210 through various customs officials.
None of us know what’s gonna happen, over time, to the stewards and stewardesses who work for the airlines Litvinenko and friends used. Because just like the hotel staffs; where residue of po-210 was found. It seems people were on board these planes (I think the count was 36,000), while the alpha particles were “hot” and floating around.
I’m not so sure anyone who realizes they could have been exposed, feels all that much confidence in their governments, either.
And, then? When you look at the media bitches; what if they’re told to run these stories as a “comfort to those who worry about dying from cancer during the next few years?”
How does Goldfarb get his cooperation? YES. He knows who runs the companies. He knows whom to call when he lifts his phone.
As to “secrets” it turns out the media is hot for them, too. Not to divulge them. But to be hits on the party circles they travel.
Ya now why? Nobody in the media cracks a whip, or breaks kneecaps, when you got, let’s say, to Andrea Mitchell’s house, by invitation. And, you rub shoulders with the hoi poloi.
Lincoln’s wife was the one who made this discovery, initially. During the Civil War, she’d entertain 500 chosen guests at the White House. And, to be invited? It meant you “had arrived.” And, these people are gossips, among themselves. But they love to think of themselves as more important than those who don’t gain entry into their “circle.”
This stuff has more to do with “celebrity” than anything else.
And, it’s worth money on K-Street, too, to be an “insider.”
Bush? He almost ruined DC. Because he doesn’t drink.
Kerry, in the minds of many in DC was gonna land in the white house. And, now? They think the same of hillary. While to most of us this happens only when pigs fly.
Ditto, for the tendencies of some stories to have legs.
And, “legs” if you’ll notice, took Libby by surprise.
Litvinenko’s death keeps getting fanned as an assassination, only due to the clout Goldfarb has. And, it’s the reason Berezovsky called him. And, I’d bet every month, so far, Goldfarb gets more money from his “source.” While the truth is free. So it doesn’t pick up steam.
Brad Pitt will play Litvinenko, I guess. But he hasn’t been able to sell Babel. To the insiders, it doesn’t matter.
Litvinenko died through A COMEDY OF ERRORS.
I don’t know anything about physics, but I have a degree in Russian studies and know how Russians make tea. And I know the KGB will poison someone in a New York minute. And that they can be bunglers.
AJ doesn’t know how Russians make tea, so he is equating the teapot and the cup.
Russians don’t make tea like Americans do. They make concentrated tea called “zavarka” in a teapot and then put a VERY LITTLE bit in a cup and pour a LOT of hot water into it. The water is called kipyatok. The ratio is like 1part zavarka to 9 parts kipyatok.
I don’t know if they would do it that way in an English hotel unless they had a samovar of hot water, but Russians are EXTREMELY picky about doing their tea this way; so they might. They think drinking a cup of tea made with just tea and water is really gross.
They really insist on the boiled water.
So the teapot could be a lot stronger with polonium than the cup because of all the hot water.
(I left this on an earlier polonium post, but maybe nobody will see it there.)
Not my fault you don’t know how to make Russian tea, AJ:)
Instapundit is running the link. And, Glenn Reynolds then notices that “putin gets a pass.”
While I notice NO HOTEL IN THE WORLD buys teapots one at a time in an antique store! Every POT at the hotel stands a very good chance of being the same, as every other!
And, this pot is HOT! And, had been in use by other guests! HOT! Hmm? Anybody else sip and get it followed by vomiting, and their hairs falling out?
It seems “railroading” (which isn’t a new activity for the media), is on track.
But I’m not convinced Litvinenko was poisoned.
I’m also not convinced Kennedy was shot by a single bullet, that took off, hitting him more than once. In front of and in back of his head. And, then went through Connelly. To come out “clean.” (Since it was found on Kennedy’s stretcher.)
But the media is fanning this story.
Still, since the warren commission’s fiction, it seems governments run amiss of truthful details. Leaving stories out there to fester. Till the truth comes along, and blows the lies away.
E. Howard Hunt just died. But coming in May will be his last book, that got to his publisher’s before he passed away at 88. In it? He’s gonna say LBJ “knew.” Are you surprised?
Of course, it’s not easy to give someone MULTIPLE EXPOSURES to poison. Unless you’re the wife. Dropping rat poison into your husband’s food, over a period of time.
HOWEVER, is said wife went out and also bought lots of life insurance? My mom used to tell me that it paid to make sure you, yourself, carried LOTS of life insurance. Because the police could be incompetents. But insurance companies? They work hard to keep money away from criminals. And, they’re good at detective work.
Maybe, what’s missing is that no insurance company has to pay out any claim on Litvinenko? Because if they were there? The truth would be OUT already.
But it seems Glenn Reynold’s link will get mileage. Maybe, people just want to put this story to bed, already? Or, maybe people want to see if they can get putin lynched on it? While getting away with murder is nothing new to the KGB!
For it to be the teaPOT? You’re gonna need staff coming down sick.
The same is true about the planes. One is still kept out of service. And, when I saw the article, it said there had been a total of 36,000 passengers riding on the “hot seats.”
And, even if you think the only way “in” is through Litvinenko’s mouth, he could have been a nose-picker, accustomed to swallowing his boogers. The tea story has too many holes. Sure, it works for incompetent police detectives, who want solutions from the MacGuffins.
But the ONE OUTSTANDING TEA POT is standing out because it’s HOT. Not because you can place it in the room with Litvinenko. Or place a time stamp on it, as to when it got HOT. (If this was happening in America? By now you’d have lawyers lined up to sign up staff to sue the hotels! Just like you do when planes crash; and the first calls to families come from lawyers. Or you didn’t know that fact?)
Snapple. My grandma told me that a SUGAR CUBE was placed in the mouth by russians rich enough to afford them. And, tea was sipped through a cube.
Maybe, Litvinenko sipped his tea through a sugar cube stuck in his mouth? By mistake, he picked up the po-210 laced sugar cube?
We still don’t know HOW the contraband got carried around.
Or even why Berezovsky’s OWN men would be hot to kill Litvinenko. Who was under them in terms of importance. Blackmail, my foot.
It wasn’t a sugar cube. It was boogers.
AJ–
Carol has babbled so much I am afraid you may miss my explanation about how Russian tea is made. It might be relevant.
In light of the recent revelations that there are smugglers and sellers of weapon’s grade uranium; why would there not also be smugglers and sellers of polonium? The two go together in the production of a basic nuke.
I think AJ’s polonium smuggling scenario is most likely correct.
Soothsayer
Quite frankly your logic su**s. I am a nuclear engineer who can do physics equations in my head.
Go back to school little one we only have big boys here.
AJ–see above how to make Russian tea–this is perhaps of interest.
I don’t think a polonium smuggler would be drawing attention to himself by dissenting activities.
People like Litvinenko and Gordievsky must be cooperating with the British intelligence. The British sneaked Gordievsky out of Russia and gave Litvinenko asylum.
I think these investigators are about to make charges, so they probably have their facts. The British don’t allow too much discussion of evidence in the papers.
There are so many holes. And, so little curiosity.
Why putin and Berezovsky ordering the “hit?”
Was Litvinenko the only man in the room sipping tea? A russian wouldn’t get suspicious? Did you see how fast Litvinenko pointed at scaramella? Because all scaramella did while he scarfed raw fish, was to sip from a bottle of water? Seems to me Litvinenko wouldn’t be the “only one sipping from a pot of tea,” if others in the room said “no thanks.”
At the sushi place? Sure. He took Scaramella there. But you know Scaramella didn’t like raw fish. How come the restaurant, chosen, wouldn’t have satisfied both men as a place to eat?
Berezovsky is the guy who is using Goldfarb. To point at putin. With skills like this, putin could have taken out Bush! (You mean he wouldn’t enjoy upsetting America’s government? What would Bush know? He’d get sick. His hairs would fall out. And, our media would go to great lengths to say Bush was ill. Not poisoned. You don’t think so?)
How come there’s no suspicion that Litvinenko stole “product,” and found himself another buyer? Did he think this could slip out, unnoticed? How the heck did he contaminate himself, repeatedly?
Why not think he found someone “extra” on the side? He wanted to be buried as a Chechnyan. And, his dad approved. He could have had his dad working the Chechnyan angle. You just don’t know!
A roomfull of smugglers in a 5-star hotel. And, tea is ordered from room service.
Accidental spills? Or a magician in the room with a “slight of hand” trick? That fooled Litvinenko. Till he got sick.
And, it’s Berezovsky who hires Goldfarb! He’s also probably paying Litvinenko’s hospital bills. Not the ones in England, with their socialized medicine. BUT THE ONES PROMISED. Did he tell Litvinenko all about Swiss clinics, where miracles are done? You could get a new liver. Or a bone marrow transpant. With connections like that, Litvinenko didn’t fool around. And, then he died.
At some point, in the “sales marketing” campaign. Did Litvinenko “talk” to this mosque’s imam? The one who freaked. Did someone who handled Litvinenko’s “treasure” suffer from having his beard fall out?
I know. Nobody asks questions. And, some of you just laugh. So eager to buy the media’s story. Just like Glenn Reynolds.
Not me. And, yes, even if I make you laugh, I hope laughter leads to epiphanies. Sometimes, it does.
AJ–
You write, “Since the tea pot was not found for over a month after Litvinenko was supposedly poisoned on Nov 1, then the authorities have no idea when the tea pot was contaminated during that time period. Not a single clue when.”
Wouldn’t the decay of the radiation give a clue? Probably it was tested and had decayed the same as the teacup. Of course, it may have been more contaminated.
Snapple
Decay chains are known and irreversible. They give no clue of when they first started in a place or time, they only give you a level of activity that you can back calculate to an original strength.
It is the nature of the beast.
They know what the decay chain was when Litvinenko died..and can calculate what it would be when the pot was found if it were from the same PO and –let me take a stab here–they did that calculation and it fit.
Clarice, more details will keep filling out, and here’s a very big hint at that being the case:
http://www.hpa.org.uk/hpa/news/articles/press_releases/2007/070119_polonium.htm —
an announcement from the UK’s Health Protection Agency, which links to a new HPA website announcing a conference detailing their response to polonium-210 in London
http://www.hpa-events.org.uk/hpa/templates/sub/thome.csp?pageID=6887&eventID=31
About the conference
The death of Alexander Litvinenko from radiation poisoning, and the risk that members of the public might have been exposed to radiation, was an unprecedented event in the UK. The Health Protection Agency’s response to the incident brought together specialists from a wide range of fields in an integrated national response. The aftermath of the incident lasted many weeks and required the Agency’s response to be sustainable. [...]
and what it will cover
http://www.hpa-events.org.uk/hpa/templates/sub/tOtherPage.csp?pageID=7067&eventID=31
Programme
The conference programme will cover key issues surrounding the public health response to the Polonium-210 incident, providing valuable lessons in preparation for future emergencies.
Topics will include:
How the Health Protection Agency led the public health investigation
Assessing the risk to the wider public
Monitoring the level of contamination at different locations and assessing the risks
Identifying those who may have been at risk and contacting them
Testing, analysis and interpretation of results from samples
Informing the public and the media
Working with the Government and other organisations
International cooperation to ensure the protection of the health of the public
Operational management.
The detailed programme will be available on this website shortly.
Komsomolets is a Young Communist League Member. They serve tea in England in teapots in restaurants and in the hotel service. Gordievsky knows that. Then you pour tea into your cup yourself. Brits make tea the same way as Russians but they don’t pour boiling water into the cup afterwards.
On Russian tea:
1) Litvinenko lived in London for about 6 years, he could easily have adapted to the Brit way of teamaking.
2) The Russian way seems far too elaborate for completion in a hotel room. They may not even have access to boiling water. So Litvinenko may have had to settle for Brit tea even though he normally went through the trouble of making it Russian style. And given the timeline, there may not have been time.
3) The teapot shown in the press photo has a cover. It is harder to put polonium into the pot than it does into an individual cup. Why bother? And the cup is more direct, more certain.
4) Would one big burly Russian make tea for another big burly Russian? That’s the only way I can see spiking the tea in the pot.
It still seems like a plant. It could even be disinformation. And why have we not seen reports of panicked visiting teadrinkers lining up for polonium testing? If they didn’t know the pot had polonium, as they claim, then they probably didn’t know where it was within the hotel. It seems like a major health concern, and yet we have only a basic apology.
Folks,
Two points remain: the teapot appears to be contaminated at levels so far beyond Litvinenko’s dosage it could never be the vessel for his poison, and the tea pot was outside custody for 6 weeks, making it impossible to prove it wasn’t spiked as a way to cover up for the real crime.
And as many have pointed out, the tea doesn’t work with Litvinenko’s trail, which was one of external Po-210 being dispersed, not some from bodily tissues. It is a ruse of some kind.
Soothsayer,
keep is civil or take hike. If you were such a brilliant mind you would know that someone getting a dose of 10 millionths of a gram in a cup of tea would not be getting it from a tea pot showing orders of magnitude more Po-210. The physics (or chemistry in this case) is that 10 millionths of a gram per ounce (which a very conservative estimate) will not show “hot” with P0-210. And the chemistry demands the pot and cup and human show a consistent dosage in terms of grams/ml. And they don’t. So maybe you SHOULD exercise your mind a bit more when reading the news.
Clarice,
Sadly you are wrong. The delay chain is constant an begins when the material was created. So whether it was a day before or 5 weeks before the delay time is measured since it was created. There is no evidence from when the tea pot waa contaminated. The decay time doesn’t relate to that event.
The way Russians make tea may be an important clue. It may explain why the teapot was much more radioactive than the cup.
It is a point that nobody has made, and it is a very good point.
None of you physics experts mentioned it because you don’t know about Russians. I do.
Russians don’t change the way they drink tea just because they move to another country. It is very likely that a Russian would tell the room service what kind of containers to bring. A good hotel might even make it “Russian style” for Russians who ask.
Russians even carry their teapots when they go hiking and make it in their traditional way.
Although the KGB usually kills people in ways that look like accidents or illness, sometimes they make their point publically and absorb the bad press. Trotsky was killed with an ice pick. That was hardly subtle. The murders in Chechnya are pretty brazen, too.
Putin is a KGB thug.
I think the best minds in England and America are working on this case.
AJ writes:
“Two points remain: the teapot appears to be contaminated at levels so far beyond Litvinenko’s dosage it could never be the vessel for his poison.”
The teapot could have been used to make the concentrated tea laced with the polonium. A few tablespoons of this would be poured in a cup and then the cup would be filled with boiling water–this would dilute the polonium to about 0ne-tenth of its radioactivity.
I am not saying this happened, but knowing how Russians ALWAYS make their tea, is something to consider.
The British seem to be gearing up to check people for polonium contamination.
If innocent people used that teapot, they may show evidence of radioactivity. That would suggest that the teapot was in circulation since Litvinenko was poisoned–not a later plant.
Ermit writes:
“Brits make tea the same way as Russians but they don’t pour boiling water into the cup afterwards.”
Then they DO NOT make tea the same way.
It is even possible that the hotel room had a tap for boiling water.
I have been in British hotels that had a boiling water tap so people could make tea. The concentrated tea could be made in the teapot, and then the cup filled with boiling water, cutting the concentration.
The police may have made the assumption that the polonium was dropped into a cup, since they found a cup, so they didn’t look for a teapot right away.
This Russian way of tea-making is something Russians are very obsessive about, so it should be considered.
British experts on Russia would know this.
AJ writes:” the chemistry demands the pot and cup and human show a consistent dosage in terms of grams/ml. And they don’t. ”
Not if the tea was made Russian-style (and Russians are extremely picky about this).
If the tea concentrate was contaminated in the teapot and then non-contaminated boiling water was added to a small amount of concentrate in the tea cup, the dosage would be different. The cup might be only one-tenth as contaminated.
It would be interesting to know how the tea was ordered or if there was a boiling-water spigot in the hotel room.
What is the ratio of contamination from the cup to the teapot?
Is it perhaps one-tenth to one fourth? That would be consistent with tea concentrate in the teapot being the source of contamination.
Here is an article about how Russians make tea. They make a big production of this; trust me.
http://home.fazekas.hu/~nagydani/rth/Russian-tea-HOWTO-v2.html
Some clarification Mr. Strata:
is civil, but there’s something wrong with:
??
As for:
Perhaps so, but perhaps YOU and MERLIN – who appear to spend the majority of your waking hours on the keypad should rethink solving crimes from 3,000 miles away and thinking there’s no one in Great Britain with brains enough to figure this out without your input. They do have Stephen Hawking, after all.
So far, Snapple seems to have the most reasonable explanation.
Snapple,
I could care less how Russians make tea – the physics in their part of the world is the same as ours. It is why I do not get diverted by the media stories and all the intrigue. It all still has to follow the laws of physics and chemistry. We do not have enough details to refine scenarios to any detail. That is why the only time I discuss the options is when I see indications the magnitude of Po-210 is great enough to stand out regardless of the specifics of the scenario.
Keep posting your thoughts – they help me work out any problems in my propositions
So now it is all cleared up then if the British media are to be believed. We have Colonel Mustard caught red-handed in the library with the lead pipe. Or in the Russian version of Clue/Cluedo, Mr Lugovoi in the Pine Bar with the teapot.
I will leave the physics to AJ and others, but this would not pass muster in Clue. To believe this story, you have to believe that the assassin booked himself into hotel rooms under his own name to commit multiple assassination attempts on separate occasions. No thought of booking in as the Rev. Green, apparently.
You believe too that, having failed once or twice already, his paymasters chose to persevere with the Polonium plot rather than more tried and tested methods such as the old-fashioned bullet.
You must further believe that Lugovoi did not make any attempt to remove the evidence, even though the contaminated teapot – if it was that ‘hot’ – would presumably soon be wreaking havoc among the tea drinking public of Mayfair.
You accept that by using the teapot rather than placing the solution (or substance) in an individual teacup, he exposed himself and Kovtun to the same threat. (Or did he ostentatiously insist on Earl Grey while the others had English Breakfast?)
You must also believe that by choosing a very particular substance as his weapon, Polonium 210, he was happy to leave a rather obvious trail pointing right back to Moscow.
And you believe that he did this knowing that Litvinenko’s death might take several weeks, during which time Litvinenko would surely re-trace his footsteps and ponder about the people with whom he had supped tea.
And all this was for the hired hand, Litvinenko, not the main man – Berezovsky.
Let me express doubt about boiling water pipelines in hotels. They are subject to ruptures and explosions. Boiling water means 100 degrees centigrade.
“Porcelin is tougher than skin. So how is it an amount that would not kill you if it was on your hand can also ‘mark’ porcelain? It cannot.”
you don’t have a clue what you are talking about. You have obviously never worked with radioisotopes.
The chemical form of the radioisotope adsorbs to and /or reacts with the porcelain; it doesn’t have to be a very efficient reaction, it can be merely one part in a million; and yet you get a great deal of contamination, which is effectively fixed.
You don’t have a clue what “off the charts” means, but it doesn’t stop you creating elaborate fantasies based on no knowledge. And you imagine that people are using Po-210 in teacups all the time ! If only I had a nuclear reactor in my backyard, that might be true !
this stuff is tin-foil hat territory.
per
British hotel rooms have teakettles or small units that boil water.
It is heated right at the spigot, not before it comes to the room.
Many European bathrooms heat the water right as it comes out of the tap–not from a boiler someplace else.
In my experience – the water is hot enough for tea – about like a Mr. Coffee – but it’s not boiling when it comes out of the tap.
And a real tea drinker certainly always wants loose leaves and a full boil to get those tea leaves dancing.
Koba ridicules the idea of using Polonium 210 to kill someone, but ignores much of the contemporary evidence. Until the day before his death (ie after 19 days of investigation), they didn’t know that Litvinenko had been poisoned with a radioisotope. If they didn’t know it was a radioisotope, you wouldn’t know what to look for, and you wouldn’t find the trail back to Moscow.
In contrast to your supposition, Lugovoi and Kovtun were contaminated with Po up to two weeks before November 1, when they met with Litvinenko. That’s one of the reasons that it is difficult to imagine an innocent explanation for L&K’s acts.
Sure, L&K left contaminated teapots/ cups; but it is quite clear that no-one trained them in radioisotope handling. It is also clear that – so long as the utensils were washed out- there is no practical chance of anyone else getting a sufficient dose to cause health effects.
yours
per
Both the teaPOT and the teaCUP could have been used in a way that GOT RID OF THE SMUGGLER’S RADIOACTIVE MATERIALS!
How convenient. Using the hotel where this is “found.” MacGuffins? Well, why not?
But taking this radioactive matieral into the hotel, and then PLANTING this stuff is MACABRE. It kills innocent people. Staff. Maids. And, the boy who doesn’t “wash the dishes.” But stuffs the dirty dishes into the dish washer.
And, then everything FLUSHES OUT. And, ends up in the Thames.
Loss to Berezovsky? Into the tens of millions. NOT GETTING CAUGHT? PRICELESS.
And, for Berezovsky to call in Goldfarb, shows ya a little detail. The coppers weren’t looking at the evidence they had, properly. While the russian mafia was “thinking ahead.”
Getting rid of evidence. PLUS, blaming putin. Again, PRICELESS.
And, when Glenn Reynolds ran a link to this story, yesterday? (Saturday, January 27th. I bet Goldfarb picked up a big bonus.)
Well, “throwing guns and knives out” at murder scenes is nothing new!
But that’s why you’d expect a crime scene to have police tape all over the doorways. Didn’t happen here at all.
Plenty of time for Goldfarb to work mischief.
Yet, that imam? He wanted nothing to do with the casket! Now, I don’t think the mortician put radioactive materials IN, along with the corpse. Still? You saw it. The russian pallbearers, AND the “box” were outside. The russians didn’t sit down and strike, either. Nobody made a commotion. As if it’s normal for an imam to deny a man’s “dying wish.”
Keep spreading fairytales. Doesn’t stop anyone from noticing the criminals ALL got caught, “hung up on their own petards.” It’s practically Shakespearean. While the muzzies will pay hollywood to cast the Mossad as the “killas.” Sure.
You’re either looking at a COMEDY OF ERRORS. Or some very smart work by a magician, that got Litvinenko to lick his fingers. And, so far, he’s the only body that fell down, dead.
Oh, Koba. Your work is wonderful!
And, if it had been a game of Cluedo, you’d have a burly russian guy tossing Litvinenko off the roof of the hotel. With his pants around his ankles.
AJ does the physics great. But what stands out loud and clear is that this whole story’s set up, to get this beyond “accident” to boiler maker; is hilarious. And, yes. It’s a joy to see someone with a sense of humor, who can get the facts right.
Yes, it’s hard to believe that there would be a spill. Litvinenko would “clean it up.” (Somehow knowing he didn’t want the lights on first? Or just being good aout snapping off the light switch as he exited the room?)
And, then he doesn’t pick his nose. He doesn’t take a few of the alpha particles that he’s managed to inhale. And, then after picking his nose, he doesn’t put his finger in his mouth.
Have you ever seen guys just sitting in traffic, waiting for the light to change? Pick a number from “very rare” to nearly universal, and see if you think picking your nose is so rare, it’s hardly ever done.
Because Litvinenko’s nose hairs held enough poison, that if it got passed his mouth, could kill him. Odorless. Flavorless. Just a “little salt added” from the boogers. (Let alone if his nose began to really run!)
Per,
In the post 9-11 world any mysterious death that looked like radiation poisoning (and this clearly did) would be investigated until the source was absolutely known and whether there was a terrorist plot involved. Once Litvinenko showed signs of radiation poisoning there was not avoiding detecting the Po-210.
Now, the question was whether the Brits would find it or someone else would. But it would be determined.
“any mysterious death that looked like radiation poisoning (and this clearly did)…”
I don’t think you are medically qualified, and I don’t think you are capable of suggesting alternative plausible diagnoses for these symptoms. You look back with 20/20 vision and announce it is obvious, when the attending clinicians took 20 days to diagnose.
per
To all, I stepped over the line and I apologize especially to Soothsayer, I did a wrong thing in useful debate and have no excuses. My bad.
If it is not BOILING water, you can’t make tea