Mar 03 2007
Republicans Are Wandering In The Political Desert
If this posting is an indication of what was felt at CPAC (and there are some indications there were plenty who do harbor these feelings) then conservative movement is going to find it difficult to ban together to challenge the Dems. The Dems are cut-throat and will do anything to win, even if that means lying down with the suicidal anti-war left. The Far right has the opposite problem. They are so bent on purity they reject any waivering to purity. Their insulting arrogance is not only getting old and tiresome, one has to wonder if they actually want to accomplish anything at all. Let’s examine some indicators which do not bode well for the Reps as currently configured:
…there is considerable grumbling about the health of the movement. From conservative pioneers to up-and-coming true believers, many attendees are looking for leaders — and they’re uncertain about the current crop of presidential candidates and not even thrilled with the current occupant of the White House.
…
It’s a struggle,†said conservative activist and public relations specialist Mike Thompson. “Conservatives want to win, but they aren’t really sure the guys at the top of the field are conservative.†Reconciling purity and pragmatism is always a challenge, Thompson added, but it’s especially so going into 2008 because “of the fear of the other side.â€
This is a very strange and twisted statement, but it goes to the heart of the problem – the drive for mythical purity. There is no perfection or purity, and those who believe in this fantasy end up throwing out realistic opportunities for a mirage. And their anger at not being able to obtain these fantasies is always laid at the feet of those who are ‘pragmatic’ (i.e., realistic). And note the insecurity in the emotion: “fear”. What is there to “fear” from the “other side”? Does this mean purity will take a back seat in 2008? We saw purity work its magic in 2006 and all it got us was Liberal garbage.
t’s not just skepticism about McCain, former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney that has members of the movement in a funk.
While conservatives here are appreciative of his steadfastness in the war on terror, President Bush has disappointed some on the right who had high hopes.
Bush has “made so many mistakes,†said the Eagle Forum’s Phyllis Schlafly. “The war is a disaster and he flubbed the [immigration] issue.â€
And the leading GOP contenders to succeed Bush? “They’re all equally unacceptable,†Schlafly said.
Yeah, but they are the only ones who are also electable. And Bush did not lose Congress over the immigration issue, the less popular Rep Congress is the mastermind of that debacle. This revisionist denial doesn’t bode well for a quick turn around for the Reps. The far right has lost much its influence and the broader conservative coalition which can win elections. Their access to power has to be arm-in-arm with the more moderate conservatives. They have no choice. The question is whether the far right will succumb and accept this reality or stand alone and in the minority.
Noemie Emery says the social conservatives will drop their litmus test and accept Giuliani.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/013/370rvrau.asp
I don’t agree on who flubbed the immigration issue. And it doesn’t matter anyhow, the Reps lost in Nov because of Iraq. The war is not being won fast enough and no one is happy about it. Reps because not enough progress is being made fast enough and Dems because we haven’t surrendered yet.
I don’t know of any of the presently announced canditdates that I particularly like. Sure don’t want McCain, but if he’s candidate, I’ll vote for him over any Dem.
I think either Romney or Gilmore look the best right now, but someone else might come along. It’s a long process and it’ll be a while before we know who the nominee will be.
But you think the Repubs are wandering? look at the Dems. what they got 99 announed candidates right now? and Stuart Smalley hasn’t even announced yet.
While the Repubs at least want to slow down illegal immigration the Dems don’t even want a border any longer, hell, I think they’re already signing up voters in Mexico.
Huh? You think a small group of people, willing to travel to a hotel, to participate in this “group suck” … can influence anything? REALLY?
It’s actually, if you’re talking about a minority “influence,” one Bush should have had in his pocket. But doesn’t.
Aj,
Are you at all a conservative? Honestly?
I seem to recall Ronald Reagan stuck by his conservative principals, did not waiver, and won a 49 state LANDSLIDE!!
And Bush Ran as one too, although, he hasn’t GOVERNED as one. Maybe had he, his Poll Numbers would be higher!
And for all the B.S. you talk about Illegals, you never have links to back it up. Nore do you ever have the Intelect to debate it. Because you are a RINO. And because you are so under educated on the problem, you are affraid to debate people who study this daily. I’m sure you did not have the guts to talk Illegals with Michelle, Duncan, or Ed. They would burry you. Tancredo was there, although I’m sure you went the other way.
Do you really want any of these front runners? NONE are Conservative, none have convictions that they stick to.
Tancredo Is Pro Life, Pro War on Islam, For Lower taxes, and actually believe we have to have control over our borders, enforce our EXISTING LAWS, passed during the Reagan Era, Then and only then, figure out what to do with those here. And he has a Conservative rating of 99, THE HIGHEST in Congress. And because he knows what he believes, and doesn’t waiver, water it down, etc. YOU CAN’T STAND HIM.
While most folks WANT a Guest Worker Plan, Most Folks WANT THE BORDER SECURED!AND THE LAWS ENFORCED:
Survey of 1,000 Adults
September 1-2, 2006
Do You Favor Strict Sanctions on Employers who Hire Illegal Immigrants
Favor 60%
Oppose 25%
Do you favor/oppose stict sanctions on landlords who rent/sell to illegal immigrants?
Favor 44%
Oppose 36%
Quinnipiac University Poll. Nov. 13-19, 2006. N=1,623 registered voters nationwide. MoE ± 2.4 (for all adults).
.
“As you may know Congress has passed and President Bush has signed legislation that would build a 700 mile fence and increase security along the Mexican-U.S. border. Do you think additional measures are needed from Congress to deal with illegal immigrants entering the country or do you think this is enough for now?”
.
More
Needed 71%
Enough
for Now 24%
Unsure 5%
11/13-19/06
.
“Some communities have passed local laws to fine businesses that hire illegal immigrants. In general do you support or oppose fining businesses that employ illegal immigrants?”
.
Support 63%
Oppose 33%
Unsure 4%
11/13-19/06
.
“Would you support or oppose laws to fine businesses in your community for hiring illegal immigrants?”
.
Support65%
Oppose32%
Unsure 3%
11/13-19/06
CNN Poll conducted by Opinion Research Corporation. Sept. 29-Oct. 2, 2006. N=1,014 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3.
.
“Do you approve or disapprove of the way George W. Bush is handling immigration?”
.
Approve 30% GEE WHATS BUSH’S PLAN??????
Disapprove 66%
Unsure 4%
9/29 – 10/2/06
6/14-15/06
33, 50, 18
5/16-17/06
36, 50, 13
.
“Now thinking about immigration, would you favor or oppose building a fence along 700 miles of the border with Mexico?”
.
Favor54% IS THAT A MAJORITY???????
Oppose44%
Unsure 2%
9/29 – 10/2/06
“Which comes closer to your point of view? Illegal immigrants in the long-run become productive citizens and pay their fair share of taxes. OR, Illegal immigrants cost the taxpayers too much by using government services like public education and medical services.” Options rotated
.
Pay Fair Share29%
Cost Too Much 66% IS THAT A MAJORITY?????
Neither/ Both (vol.)/Unsure 4%
6/8-25/06
CBS News Poll. Jan. 1-3, 2007. N=993 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3.
.
“With Democrats in control of Congress, do you think the Congress will pass immigration reform, or not?”
.
Will 42%
Will Not 42%
Unsure 16%
1/1-3/07
I TOOK THE TIME TO LOOK THESE UP FOR YOU!
I would love to see Fred Thompson get in the race. I have see him debate issues in various venues on tv shows and every time I hear him speak, the man sounds more intelligent and straight talking than anyone else I hear and he does not bow down to political correctness. He could mop up the floor with any of the democrat candidates in a debate.
Luckily, I must go for the day. It will help my Blood Pressure, no doubt!
Got some T-Bones to cook out with friends. Enjoy your day folks!
Reagan raised taxes, ran from Terrorists, negotiated with Terrorists (Iran), increased spending, appointed dubious judges and signed the original immagration reform. And he is the “ideal” for so-called conservatives. AJ, those people are just extremist kooks just like the ones on the left.
When republicans respond to the immigration issue negatively, the beltway republicans say bush messed up because he didn’t sign Kennedy’s bill. The outside the beltway republicans are outraged that he would ever consider signing it. So all republicans are not happy with Bush on immigration but for two different reasons. I say why pass another law that the government “DOES NOT INTEND TO ENFORCE!” This is such a crock of shit. Every time they pass one of these laws, it’s like ringing the dinnerbell for hundreds of thousands more to come up here and disregard our laws because what we are telling them is that we don’t care if they break our laws, we will overlook it. The real truth is that the politicians who are pushing this program know damn well that the administration of it would be utterly impossible and the net result would be to just open the border and that is what they want because they want to be the ones to benefit from the cheap labor and mexican votes.
HIstory teaches ya that Thomas Jefferson was the 3rd president to pay booty to the muslims. From Algiers. To Tunisia. To Tripoli. While the turkeys in congress feared letting America form a navy. Business decisions in the short term, trumped what was right.
And, the excuses? The People didn’t want “war.” But it came, anyway.
Lucky we built a few good vessels. Because Napoleon tested us in the Carribean. And, we kicked his ass.
And, it took the 4th President, Madison … in his second term … to finally give the ORDER to attack the pirates.
Yes. America is different than the europeans. They always paid the booty.
And, we have a sublime navy. And, the marines.
Unfortunately, we elected a man into office who is a lightweight. Can’t convince the American people of anything. And, sometimes I think he doesn’t even care.
If he cared? He’d demand better speech writers. And, he’d be out front, doing more than going to photo ops to hug kids after cities and states get whalloped by the weather.
By the time Bush leaves office? You won’t be able to get another bush or shrub elected for some time to come!
And, Hillary, too, faces the same problem. Americans really hate dynasties. They really, really do.
Reagan went along with a tax increase IN HIS SECOND TERM, with the promise of BUDGET CUTS on a dollar for dollar basis. For every new dollars the Tax Increase Raised, CONGRESS WAS SUPPOSE TO CUT SPENDING BY THAT AMOUNT. THEY DID NOT DO IT, surprise, surprise!
Those terrorist did not attack us on U.S. Soil.
He signed “Immigration Reform” with new, tougher laws, that to this day, ARE NOT ENFORCED!
He nominated Robert Bork, but a Liberal Congress would not approve him.
See how easy it is to debunk when you have the facts on your side!
Out of here! Enjoy your day!
Robert Bork probably has less popularity than either Bush president!
He blew his own nomination!
And, he still thinks he’s better than Reagan!
I gotta tell ya, folks. Abortions won’t get stopped being done. Like ALL PRohibitions, they’re just mafia opportunities.
But it will stain the GOP for a long, long time to come. And, it’s very likely that THEN the donks will emerge at holding enough majorities to keep things as they are. IN A PICKLE.
Yep, you might be right, but my gut tells me that is the Republicrats pass the amnesty, they will go down for a generation….
Conservatives did nothing but bitch about Reagan most of the time he was president, he became their idol after he left office.
Who is this Schafly guy anyway? Why should I give a damn what he thinks?
The Republicans lost for a lot of reasons, but blaming it all on Iraq is just wishful thinking for the hard right. They think that means that when Bush leaves office they will win. I voted Republican because of Bush, and in spite of people like Tancredo.
And immigration did help sink the Republicans because they refused to compromise and just said that if they did not get what they wanted then nothing would happen. People did not elect them to do nothing. The attitude was arrogant and infuriating and it was just one more thing.
Bush won his election in 2004 and the war was on then. Even if 2005 was a difficult year it was not just the war, it was the scandals and the obnoxious attitude that said if they did not get what they wanted when they wanted it everyone else could just go to hell. No one likes that.
DBoston:
Reagan gave amnesty to illegals and he is a hero.
Besides, two thirds of the country supports some kind of process toward legalization for the people who are here now and who are gainfully employed. That is just a fact. And if Repbulicans keep this up they will accomplish nothing but to lose the Hispanic vote just like Barry Goldwater lost the black vote.
In truth the Republicans in Congress made it possible to pass the Civil Rights act in the 60’s, but thanks to Goldwater’s stance on the issue the Republicans lost virtually all support among blacks. Eisenhower got 45% of the black vote, Goldwater got 6% and it is not a lot better today. Bush got 44% of the Hispanic vote, an all time high for a Republican, the midterms saw that gain all gone. And I am not talking about illegals here, I am talking about American citizens who happen to be Hispanic. There has been a decidly obnoxious undertone to this debate and if I can see and hear it then you can bet they do.
TerryE,
What Reagan did was a mistake, but it would be a much bigger mistake not to learn from it.
I think you are dead wrong about the American public vs. illegal immigration.
If a candidate would advocate forcefully enforcing the existing immigration laws, coupled with denying ANY benefits to illegals, the illegals would self-deport and that candidate would be elected in a huge landslide.
We are tired of being played for fools by the demsheviks and checkpants republicrats.
Period.
Terrye,
Reagan gave amnesty to illegals and he is a hero.
Well, at least you’re finally admitting that what we are talking about is amnesty. Actually, that’s only a small part of the problem. When Reagan gave amnesty to illegals, it was accompanied by a program to get them to come here legally and get documented. (sound familiar?) What happened? Millions more came over the border and totally ignored the whole damn thing! Citizenship is not what these people want. Some do, but too many of them just want to do whatever they damn well please and live totally above the law! That is a fact!
As for your “obnoxious undertone”, the truth is the truth and you can take all that hispanic bigot crap and stuff it Terrye. While a lot of these people just want to live somewhere where they can make a few bucks and live in peace, the fact is there are far too many of them who wipe their ass with our flag and abuse our country and what it gives to them, and I’m not going to stop saying it until it stops. Again it is the people who actually have to live with the problem that know it the best. You arrogant assholes sit their in your cozy little bedroom communities back east and infer that we are bigots as we watch our towns and communities become lawless little third world countries and have the nerve to complain about it! It is you people who are destroying the republican party with your ignorance of a problem which the rest of the nation can see a lot better. And when they complain about the congress and the president not doing something about the immigration problem, they are not asking to just erase the god damn border, they are asking the government to ENFORCE THE LAW!
You know what grinds my ass Terrye, if you had about fifty thousand mexicans living in your neighborhood, you would be bitchin about it too, but since you don’t, you get on a high horse and point your fingers at those who do have to live with this lawless culture and proclaim WE are the problem. Go stuff it!
Terrye,
Agree completely.
Dbostan,
I think the lesson to “learn” is to deal with all the issues of the problem (multi tasking) . To defer parts of the problem is to leave the problem unresolved.
Carol Herman,
Your anemic view of GWB would be different if he had robust support from the congressional members of the GOP. And you praise Madison for challenging Islamists but whine because Bush does. And Bush’s eloquence on “freedom” is unmatched. Give him credit for ideas.
Bikeken:
Oh please. This situation not come about overnight. Those borders have never been closed and those Mexicans have been coming over here for a long long time and people in that part of the country did not just wake up one day and realize this. It started long before Bush became president and long before this latest bout of hysteria. I am simply pointing out that cities like El Paso were always right on the border in more ways than just geography. That does not ignore the fact that we need to get control of the border.
As for the issue of amnesty, what do you propose? Rounding up 11 million people and shipping them over the border? Most hardliners say they just want enforcement….but what does that mean? That is the kind of thing you put on a Tshirt, but is in fact demogaguery.
How do you do that? How many people would you hire to do the law enforcement and what agencies would employ them? How big would the fence be and how long would it take to build? How many courts, detention centers and public defenders would it take to round and deport 11 million people. What do you do with the families who have children who are American citizens and what about the labor they provide? Do you really think you can jerk all those people out of the work force without any economic backlash? Will you pick the fruit and work the fields? How much will it cost, can it even be done?
Oh yeah, the people who refuse to compromise say they do not want mass roundups but they don’t want guest worker programs or any kind of legalization either. So what is left? Well they will go back to saying just enforce the laws and there we are chasing our tails again.
I am not saying that we should ignore the problem. I was reading the other day that already the increased border security has seen a decrease in crossings and more people are being sent back.
My only point is just because the problem can not be done away with overnight or just because someone else has a different idea about how to deal with it…that does not mean that the other guy does not want to solve the problem and if you respond to that by just refusing to even consider the realities of the situation and just yell about enforcing laws as if all that was needed was the waving of a magic wand…people will start to think of you as someone who is more interested in complaining than they are in dealing with the problems realistically.
DBoston:
The problem is people disagree with what that means. When Bush gave his speech on immigration 79% of the people who watched it had a positive reaction to it. The difference is to them he was talking about dealing with the issue, to some conservatives he was wrong because he was not dealing with it the way they wanted.
If people are asked if people who are working here should be given a way to become legal overwhelmingly they say yes. That does not mean they want a bunch of parasites living off the system. They want them paying taxes and contributing. Sometimes I think the old program they used to have was better. People would come and work and then most of them would leave when seasonal work was gone. But the unions killed that.
Like I said I am not in favor of ignoring the problem, most people aren’t…they just do not agree on what to do and people can say that most Americans want no amnesty or whatever, but the Democrats have a better chance of getting a lenient system through now than they did before the midterms. People did not vote for the Tancredo candidate. In my district Hostettle was very much a nativist and Ellsworth massacred him. And this is rural Indiana, not exactly a liberal hotbed. BTW, we have Mexicans come up here too, they work the fields. The locals won’t do it.
Macker,
I’m reading SUPREME CONFLICT now. And, Bush lost support within his own base. First, by squandering our surplus on a needless tax play giveaway. That brought him back nothing at all.
Ditto for the way he’s mismanaged our budget. Because Bush can’t buy voters approval, either.
When Harriet Miers came down the pike, you saw GWB’s awful judgement in action. There was a chorus screaming for a woman. So he sent someone who was a friend, to the HILL, to garner votes. And, all she garnered was ridicule.
You’ll also notice that there was the biggest erosion in trust FROM his base!
Mistakes in Iraq? There’s been a few.
Bush’s attitude towards Libby? UNFORGIVABLE! Bush has loyalty confused with something he thought he was due. Loyalty to ‘da man.’ Like in mafia organizations. And, among blacks. UNDERACHIEVERS unanimous.
Right now he’s got about 18 months left. I don’t think he’ll be impeached. But he is really standing in the way of the GOP reaching out to voters, not just right wing nutters, who want to turn abortions back into being illegal. As if you can extend what the cops already have grabbed.
Yeah. Martha Stewart went down. Libby will also face similar music.
But the larger picture? Very few people will respect the courts. And, the courts don’t deserve “automatic” praise, either.
Most Americans respect individuals who can earn things on merits. Not something you see in Bush at all. He’s just a spoiled brat.
When his term’s up? He’ll get a hat. Just like his father’s.
But dynasties? These people think they’re entitled to win crowns? How so?
The best “heat” that can be applied to Bush now; is to realize he’s staked his families’ reputation on his own inneptitude.