May 21 2007
Political Suicide Left And Right
I am among a small number of small blogs who have voiced a lot of disgust with the hard right and their responses to issues of the day. Immigration is the most recent debacle where the answer from the hard right is to demean those who find their arguments wanting. So from wanting arguments we go to childish name calling – and these people have the nerve to wonder why people are abandoning them? RINO is just one of many demeaning names used by those who cannot lose gracefully on these issues. The left is in a death spiral because their anger with Bush has caused them to ally with our enemies and push for failure in Iraq when there is no failure there – yet. But the right has decided to follow the leader and implode as well. Harold Hutchison says it well in this post when he asks are these hyper partisan responses all these people have left in their bag of dumb partisan tricks?
Nowhere can the lackof perspective and inability to prioritize be reflected more clearly. When House Democrats are starting to try to squelch debate, both with Pelosi’s attempt to kill the motion to recommit and their push for the Fairness Doctrine, when they are slow-walking funds for our troops in harm’s way, and when 61% of Democrats seem open to the possibility that President Bush had advance warning on 9/11, these conservatives are more interested in asserting philosophical purity, or throwing a fit over a committee assignment. Rather than try to form a coalition with the 39% of Democrats who reject the [9-11] conspiacy theory – a task that would be very doable with either Rudy Giuliani or Mitt Romney, who have won elections in very Democratic areas, these conservatives reject those out of hand.
The talking heads and pols have made everything a zero-sum game. All or nothing. With us or against us. OK – I am against. I am against the lack of mature debate and humble concession to losing in a democracy. There was a time losing the debate was still a win because it was a democratic loss, not a military one or a vendetta driven loss, etc. The loss was a win because it was played in the public arena and resolved with democratic processes. Not any more. Now it is their way or nothing. The name calling is the first sign of bankrupt policies and ideas. The Dems have been at this trough for some time because they have not had a fresh, good idea since the 1950’s. But the far right ran out of popular ideas as well, and so went into brow-beating mode to try and go beyond their support mandate. And they lost their support. Duh!. Harold also has a good post on the result of the invective used on immigration:
If you disagree with some of them on immigration, they insinuate treason. If you objected to the stridency of others, you were a party hack. That’s from the tamer of the two sites. The other site allowed users to label those who backed a comprehensive immigration plan Quislings constantly, even an otherwise conservative candidate got the label.
If the powers that be at those sites expect people to sit down with them after they were called traitors and soul-sellers, they must be smoking some very interestingly flavored tobacco.
The damage is done. The anti-immigrant forces cannot repair the damage because it requires admitting they screwed up. So instead they will sling invectives and lose more ground. I am not worried though.
The result of the implosions left and right have created a new balance center-right. It will be weaker on some issues than I want, but it will avoid the disasters the two fevered swamps have in store for us if we go too far left or too far right. Guiliani or someone like him will win in 2008. The President needs to be a Rep because of the disaster the Dems sowed in the few short months they have abused their time in power this year. But it will not be a Tancredo firebrand type, no one has the stomach for his screwed up priorities. And the Dems and Reps will need to field more moderate and less strident candidates to win seats.. The Lieberman’s will trounce the Lamonts and the Romney’s will beat out the Gingrich’s. And the nation will moderate has we move from hot heads to hot ideas.
Yes, AJ. You have been a shining example of compromise. You are the standard bearer when it comes to compromise. We should all strive to achieve a tiny fraction of the lofty standard for compromise that you exemplify.
ApacheIP
Dale,
Sorry, I never said you did call me a RINO. My point was if you did it would be oxymoronic. I cannot help who you keep company with on this issue. We need to do something and this is the best there ever will be for a long time. Is it all or nothing? Well, what’s wrong with telling the Reps it is nothing and getting what we can!!
There are a million examples and reasons not to pass anything. But there is one reason to pass it – we cannot live they way we are going. Life is not fair. No Bill in DC will change that fact. Inaction is not an allowable option.
On the right hand side of your blog, you have an area where you list the communities you are a member of. The top one is “Raging Rino”. I am assuming you put that there.
If you list yourself as a member of the “Raging Rino” community, aren’t you calling yourself a RINO?
Is this some sort of PC game where you can publicly call yourself a RINO, but no one else can?
ApacheIP
There’s a small problem in the bill. It calls upon US employers to verify the ID of every employee of every company in the US. A total of about 135 million!!
Heretofore, the employer was required to scrutinize documents provided by employees to demonstrate citizenship; the new law requires employers to MAKE COPIES of the documents, so every employer will have to do it all over again with every single employee.
A nightmare.
Sooth,
Employers have to make copies now of citizenship documents. As usual your glaring ignorance is showing again. Oh yeah, you posted again. Seems to be a correlation between your ignorance showing and your postings…..
I mean really, you don’t think companies have all sorts of copies of information on their employees already???
LOL!
Apache,
The “RINO” list on the right was an acronym which took issue with the label “Rep In Name Only”. It stood for something like “Reps Immune to National Orthodoxy”… It was opposed to the name calling. Duh.
And since I was an Independent I asked if they minded I join up. Seems you are not clear on what you are posting about.
AJ
If your position is it will never be enforced then why resist it? But really, why even be in this debate since any proposal would fail to be enforced. That really is a poor excuse to live with what we have.
Now that is an excellent question. Why oppose it, as it is now (apparently) written? Simply because, since it is not about to pass, the sole reason for it existing is to make Reps look bad and to win political advantage for the Dimmycrats. It needs to be fully debated and when all the if’s and’s and buts get exposed, the Dimmy’s will get a lot to the blame for the situation instead of it all being put on the Repubs. I especially like this article: from Drudge:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20070521-121929-4099r.htm
here’s a little snippet:
“Now that is an excellent question. Why oppose it, as it is now (apparently) written? Simply because, since it is not about to pass, the sole reason for it existing is to make Reps look bad and to win political advantage for the Dimmycrats. It needs to be fully debated and when all the if’s and’s and buts get exposed, the Dimmy’s will get a lot to the blame for the situation instead of it all being put on the Repubs. ”
Now there’s something I can get behind!
Here is a direct link to the Draft bill for discussion purposes only: it is from c-span; and it is only 326 pages long.
http://www.c-span.org/pdf/Immigration%20Draft%2005-18-07.pdf
Sen Ben Nelson, D Neb.
speech on senate floor, right now.
He does not want a comprehensive bill, only border security. Once that bill is approved and border is secure, then he will support further legislation dealing with illegals.
So it’s not just Repubs against this thing.
.
AJ: okay, I hear you.
My only comment here, is that despite the fact I’m an “independent”; the very Fact that Teddy Kennedy is onboard with this, is enough for me to know it is No good for American, and probably Anti-American at it’s core!
That’s my only point!
They may sound simplistic, but I have never seen Teddy Kennedy, do anything that was good for America; at least not in the past 40 years!
So, if he’s a supporter of this bill, my “gut” tells me, it is BAD for us!
George W. Bush is again doing the bold and courageous thing. By the people who are against it and by the organizations that are trying to sabatoge it, it must be “just right”…
If the paleo’s are against it, then I am definitely for it. On some of the conservative sites I am frankly embarrassed by the comments…not worthy…. same coin as the dems just the opposite side is what I see being exposed.
conservative:
Do people in the middle get run over? Well right now people in the middle make up the largest voting group, which means we control the road. And more and more of them are leaning left. Not good for your side of the road.
I have been completely disgusted with the childish, silly, spiteful, mean, shrill, hysterical crap I have been hearing this last few days.
They forget the are not the whole damn country, they can not just order everyone around, find fault with everything and everyone and do nothing but bitch. That is all they do. They are not trying to come to a common understanding, the right just wants what they want when they want it. Well when this deal blows up in their faces what are they going to do? Brag? Act as if they did a great thing by killing the deal and putting us right back where we were and then how long before they start making demands?
No, I am fed up with the name calling. McCAin may not be my favorite person but I have read some moronic obscene crap on some sites about him lately that left me feeling like I needed a bath.
I am disgusted. So now we hear the poor little me I don’t trust my government blah blah blah. You know, for years regular people, not in anyway associated with the government refused to even deal with this. Now they blame Kennedy, McCAin, Bush and everyone else for what their cities, towns, states, communities, neighborhoods, businesses and churches failed to do. I figure if I can still trust the American people, I can trust my government.
Dale:
This is what bothers me. Are we supposed to change the rules for the right? I don’t Ted Kennedy, I can not imagine voting for him. But the people of Mass did and the Democrats are in the majority. That means if Kennedy does not want the bill to be up there, the Republicans probably would not even get the chance to vote on it. That is what happened after the right had their last temper tantrum and lost the House. That is just the way it is. Now you can sit back and wait for the day when the right people are in the majority again, or you can deal with Kennedy. I would say that since I am thinking about bailing out chances are others are as well. So that majority might not come for a long long time.
Terrye: I’ve never even suggested to change the “rule” for the “Right” (I think you mean Republicans/Conservatives)??
I do suggest we make the rules work, for what IS “right”; if you catch my meaning.
If the people of Mass want to elect Teddy Kennedy, despite what a disgusting, Anti-American slug he is, that is their right!
It’s also my “right”, to call him exactly what his is, a disgusting, Anti-American slug, and that’s being polite for AJ’s Blog!
I also say, the “Reps” lost the House an Congress, NOT on the basis of the Iraq War, they lost it on the basis of Abramoff, Cunnigham, Foley, and relentless stupidity of the Bush Administration in refusing to defend itself agains falacious and spurious lies leaked by Leftist elements in the State Department and CIA, that splashed Libby nonsense, wiretapping nonsense, secret prisons nonsense, torture nonsense, etc., in a relentless parade, across the frontpages of the Pro-Jihadi MSM for 5 years!
Fankly, people had had enough, and they said to hell with them!
The Democrats promised to come in, clean up, and pass significant legistlation, all within 100 days.
Now, we’ve seen that the Democrats, “surprisingly” (sarcasm off)! are more corrupt, more stupid, and more idiotic than the “Reps” and on top of that, they’re Anti-American and Pro-Jihadi!
I think the American people sense that, already; and I suspect that if Fred Thompson runs, they’ll not only loose the White House, but they’ll get swept out of control of both houses of Congress again, as well!
Dale,
And I greatly appreciate the efforts you make to keep things civil here. Honesty I do. So thanks!
terrye you said
I have been completely disgusted with the childish, silly, spiteful, mean, shrill, hysterical crap I have been hearing this last few days.
Do you realize that much of it comes in the comments with the name TERRYE at the end of them.
Most of what you comment seems to be either deliberately incorrect, or just from lack of correct info, either way, you are misleading in many of the things you say.
.