May 25 2007
Immigration Bill Rolls On
The Immigration Bill is rolling ahead in the Senate.
By a vote of 66-29, senators rejected an amendment by Republican Party legislator David Vitter to eliminate a provision that offers legal status to most of the 12 million illegal immigrants living in the United States.
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The Senate also narrowly rejected a proposal by Republican Norm Coleman to allow state and local law enforcement agencies to help enforce immigration laws.
I have issue with some things changed or not included – especially Coleman’s proposal. Hopefully it will go back in at conference. Of course, if the hard right would vote to strengthen the bill instead of gutting it things would be better. Coleman lost by 2 votes. Perfect is the evil of good and continuing with the status quo is dangerous. So as along as the ability to deport criminals stays in under a one-strike-your-out feature this bill is keeping my support. That feature alone makes this bill worth keeping. But we need the guest worker program to get background checks (criminal records) and to provide IDs to those checked and cleared. So far good enough.
Update: Myth busting the myth peddlers:
FACT: The bill would, for the first time, give the Departments of Homeland Security (DHS) and Justice (DOJ) tools to keep certain aliens out of the United States solely on the basis of their participation in a gang.
No conviction is required – if an individual has associated with a gang and helped “aid” or “support” its illegal activity, then he or she is not allowed to remain in the country – even if he renounces his gang affiliation.…
ACT: After the family backlog is cleared in the first eight years after enactment, the bill will eliminate about 190,000 extended family visas per year. By contrast, the category of “extreme hardship” cases is capped at 5,000 visas per year.
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FACT: Illegal workers who ignored deportation orders are not eligible for the Z visa program, except in exceedingly rare cases in which they can demonstrate their departure would “result in extreme hardship.” FACT: The determination of what constitutes “extreme hardship” lies entirely within the discretion of the Secretary of Homeland Security, who has no interest in allowing this exception to be abused.
Unlike the cries of that the sky is falling from the right, these concerns from the far left are serious concerns. They are not getting what they wanted. Seems to me all the right people are pissed off on this bill. How many times did Cons hit liberals for incidentally allying themselves with al Qaeda on Iraq? Tons of times. Seems some kettles are going around calling some pots ‘black’. Look at the alliances against the bill – uber nationalists and anything goes lefties. No wonder this bill’s time has come.
Update: The hardliners are killing the GOP:
For a certain kind of conservative, any attempt to grant a legal status to illegal immigrants is as welcome as salsa on their apple pie. One conservative commentator claims that the law is “going to erase America” — an ambition even beyond Ted Kennedy’s considerable powers. Another laments that “white America is in flight” — and presumably not just to Jackson Hole or Nantucket for the summer.
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If a Republican presidential candidate doesn’t get about 40 percent of the Latino vote nationwide, he or she doesn’t stand much of a chance on an electoral map where Florida and the Southwest figure prominently. A nativist party will cease to be a national party.
Breaking 40 percent is possible for Republicans. President Bush did it in 2004. Republican momentum among Hispanic voters has been strong in the past decade — until Rep. Tom Tancredo and his allies began their conflict with the fastest-growing segment of the electorate.
Conceding Latinos to the Democrats in perpetuity is a stunning failure of political confidence. If the Republican Party cannot find ways to appeal to natural entrepreneurs, with strong family values, who are focused on education and social mobility, then the GOP is already dead.
Well, some of it is dead anyway. The question is whether the condition is fatal or correctible. For our nation’s sake in the fight against al Qaeda I hope it is correctible. My fear is ,from what I have seen the last week, is it is probably fatal – to all of us. We will surrender to al Qaeda because some folks got all worked up over documenting undocumented workers. Just crazy.
So as along as the ability to deport criminals stays in under a one-strike-your-out feature this bill is keeping my support.
There is no such provision in the bill. One strike or two or three. In fact, those that are awaiting deporting at the time the bill is passed, will be released, assigned new lawyers and start all over again.
If you think that is in the bill, someone has mislead you.
Yes, it states something similar to what you’re quoting, but has about 6 reasons and methods to get it stayed. There is therefore nothing that ensures that convicted felons will actually have to leave the US. In fact, convicted felons, with no more than one felony in another country, will actually be allowed to come into the country and if the government then wanted to deport him, he would then be provided with a tax paid fully funded lawyer to prevent it.
This is a full employment for lawyers bill. Wonder if any lawyers were involved in writing it.
Once in, always in.
The Senate also narrowly rejected a proposal by Republican Norm Coleman to allow state and local law enforcement agencies to help enforce immigration laws.
I meant to also say, that if the fed gov is not enforcing the laws (which everyone admits they’re not) why would they need help from anyone?
I guess I just can’t figure out why, when we have never enforced immigration laws and we pass new laws that makes everyone legal why we are ‘suddenly’ gonna start enforcing them. the Correct answer, of course is, with no illegals, we won’t need to enforce anything, fed, city, or state.
Katy bar the door.
there are always appeals in a fair legal system. No bill would survive constitutional challenges if they did not include an appeal process. Only dictatorships throw out appeals……
LOL! And the reason we cannot enforce the laws is because we need the provisions in this bill to remove all excuses and barriers.
Just like the stories about criminals, this bill takes huge steps to address the very issues the hard right whine about – yet they oppose.
Face it, the hard right wants the status quo until their Easter Bunny shows up.
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2005/04/10/news/top_stories/15_47_234_9_05.txt
Responding to Mr. Thompson [Mark R. Levin]
Mr. Thompson’s response isn’t exactly on point, is it? I wasn’t talking about deporting someone who is a gang member. I was talking about an illegal alien who is a gang member. He or she can be deported under current law. Indeed, an illegal alien who isn’t a gang member can be deported. There’s an adjudicative process, of course. But they can be deported. Boy, now I’m really worried. You mean to tell me the White House didn’t know this?
Moreover, the notion, under the new deal, that an illegal alien gang member will come forward and renounce his membership, and mean it, is a stretch, don’t you think? Here’s what I predict: such a person will come forward, renounce his gang membership, and receive his probationary legalization. And if it is later learned that he remained an active gang member, what then? Will steps be taken to deport him? Sure, will be the response. Well, the problem is that his new legalized status will result in additional due process rights akin to those U.S. citizens enjoy, making deportation much more difficult. The courts will see to that.
Your turn, Mr. Thompson.
Deported gang members often return
By: JO MORELAND – Staff Writer
NORTH COUNTY —- Few people arrested during immigration-related sweeps targeting North County gangs are prosecuted, and many who are deported will probably return, local and federal authorities said last week.
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2005/04/10/news/top_stories/15_47_234_9_05.txt
1. H1-B: 6 years max, with option for green card (several year wait).
Z-visa: can remain in U.S. indefinitely, just have to renew every 4 years; also path to citizenship.
2. H1-B: tied to one employer, must obtain new visa if change jobs.
Z-visa: fully transferable (essentially, a renewable green card).
3. H1-B: Must pay taxes (I’ve paid six figures in two years).
Z-visa: Tax amnesty for all unpaid taxes.
Which status would you rather have?
Would it not be more appropriate to call This “AMNESTY BILL ROLLS ON”? Immigration is a LEGAL ACT.
It’s impossible to understand why any thinking person could support this Country Killer. Amnesty Now, Promise of Enforcement Later. Haven’t we heard this Countless times?
Ow well, it will only cost Trillions and totaly transform our Country. No biggie.
I’d sure like to know what AJ Hates about the Republican Party. I guess they all need to be Liberal Light or something. If your an actual Conservative, I can’t see where or how, once this passes, you could ever be elected to the House or Senate. Most Conservatives come from the South, Mid West, and Mid Atlantic States. When these million of new Liberal start voting in mass, where exactly would a Conservative run?
I think that is really why he supports this. He hates people who are Conservatives. If you believe in the Constitution, Rule of Law, right from Wrong, and God, you are a serious threat. It is the only thing that makes sense to me. Any one have a better reason why he blindly supports this bill?
AJ
Stop besmirching the hard right as you call them. When you see no fence on the border – because it won’t be finished – and the fine for illegals gets forgiven – because it will – and your taxes are increased to support all these poor and unskilled folks going officialy on social services like medicare, social security and welfare – and the background checks going incomplete because there is no funding for resources and another 20 million join their relatives in America…. you may find that the hard right was right on!!
AJ is worried that some illegal working at a motel cleaning rooms who is just trying to support her family is going to be deported.
Never mind that one of the Fort Dix Six was a pizza delivery man. Not exactly a six figure job. But then we know, the pizza man who wanted to kill American soldiers on American soil, was just trying to help his family.
R05,
Like usual you missed the point. To find terrorists without the illegals stepping forward to be checked we have to go find them in the 12 million illegals. Which means detaining and checking by police action. Which means resources wasted on the innocent workers. Which means we waste time.
Is it really this hard for the hard right?? Do you think this myopic stubborness impresses? LOL! No wonder they are blowing this issue as bad as the Dems on Iraq.
BTW,
While the far right get’s all bent out of shape about me not buying their tired arguments and even more tired scare tactics, I would like to point out that while I find your positions totally lacking, you still get to present them on this site un-edited (I never promised unchallenged) so that the 2500-3000 visitors here a day get to read your views.
So don’t go off doing that hard right insult thing again because people don’t buy what you are selling. Like I said – the only question is whether the GOP will lose with honor or lose ugly. Its looking really ugly right now. Which is how the far right became marginalized in the first place. They don’t take rejection very well.
AJ, it seems when it comes to the boots on the ground and the first line of defense, you are on the wrong side. I suppose that you are going to tell me that this letter represents 2,600 bigotted, racist right wingers who don’ t have a clue what they are talking about.
http://www.nbpc.net/Miscellaneous/kyl_letter_amnesty.pdf
Just in case you are wondering about this letter, a large portion of the 2,600 American citizens it represents are Hispanic in heritage.
So what do we have now, AJ? Racist Hispanics who are traitors to their “own” kind?
Dismiss this letter as you will. Label them right winger who don’t have a clue what is good for this nation. Spin it any way you chose, but again, the facts are against you.
And the reason we cannot enforce the laws is because we need the provisions in this bill to remove all excuses and barriers.
Ah, now we get to the real problem. This bill adds several layers of excuses and barriers and removes zilch.
There sure must be a lot of people that are depending on word of mouth as to whats in it. I read the 326 page version and it ain’t pretty. If they had not included excuses and barriers, it could have been cut down to about 3 paragraphs.
,
http://www.nbpc.net/?p=96
Click on the link to see the letter that BP agents are being requested to send to their Senators.
I want AJ to be arrogant enough to tell us that he knows better than our Border Patrol while he tells us that the boots on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan know better how to conduct the war against radical Islam than do the D.C. elites. Is he now going to tell us that the D.C. elites know better how to conduct the war on the invasion against the United States from foreign nationals than the Border Patrol agents who are being injured and losing their lives in the line of duty?
I want him to tell me that BP agents named Garcia, Lopez, Hernandez and Valasques are right wing racists who are just bigotted against brown people and that he knows better than they do.
When you see no fence on the border – because it won’t be finished finished? it won’t be started. Not any new as a result of last year’s bill anyhow. None has been started, none will be.
Is it really this hard for the hard right?? Hard right? as in people that want laws enforced.
Like I said – the only question is whether the GOP will lose with honor or lose ugly. Its looking really ugly right now.
The GOP (and the hard right) is not gonna lose. This bill and a snowball have the same chance in hell. Remember the House!
The last time I looked that marginalized Hard right was still occupying the white house.
.
FE,
Every GOP member of the House needs Presidential support to champion their priorities under his veto threats. They need him more they he needs them. I already pointed this out. And with polls like this they GOP will need to retain seats, not lose them in a fit of partisanship. That is how DC works. Bush holds the power in the GOP and will get his way.
I heard Kyl say that the fence is being built now. 75 miles under construction. This is the government, it has only been a few months since the bill was signed and they have to go through bid processes and everything else. Maybe if people spent as much time trying to find out the facts about issues like the fence instead of just trying to shout down everyone else….we might get something accomplished.
And if some of the really creepy far right anti hispanic anti immigrant conspiracy crap showing up in my spam is any indicator, there are some pretty strange people out there claiming to represent the right on this. Direct mail scams and everything else.
Over at Big Lizards I saw another poll on this. Very interesting, makes you wonder what people would think of this bill if there was not so much propaganda out there trashing it:
The great majority of the country, however, is actually in agreement on most issues; and every element of the bill gets majority support. Look:
61. If you had to choose, what do you think should happen to most illegal immigrants who have lived and worked in the United States for at least two years: They should be given a chance to keep their jobs and eventually apply for legal status, OR They should be deported back to their native country?
Chance to apply for legal status: 62%; Deported: 33%
63. Would you favor or oppose allowing illegal immigrants who came into the country before January to apply for a four-year visa that could be renewed, as long as they pay a $5,000 fine, a fee, show a clean work record and pass a criminal background check?
Favor: 67%; Oppose: 27%
64. ASKED OF THOSE WHO FAVOR: Should they be allowed to apply for U.S. citizenship just like legal applicants, or should they have to wait until legal applicants have been considered first?
Should be like legal applicants: 16%; Should have to wait: 69%
On the question of increasing penalties on employers who knowingly hire illegals, 75% favor increased enforcement including higher fines, 15% favor increased enforcement without higher fines, and 8% oppose increased enforcement. On “guest workers,” 66% favor and 30% oppose.
And here’s the biggie:
73. When the US government is deciding which immigrants to admit to this country, should priority be given to people who have family members already living in the U.S., or should priority be given to people based on education, job skills, and work experience?
Family: 34%; Workers: 51%, Depends: 5%.
I like Fred Thompson, I really do. But when the hardliners get all excited over him, it might be worth remembering that before there was talk of his running for President his attitudes were almost exactly the same as his friend’s McCain. All you have to do is look at his record when he was in the Senate.